Reply With QuoteI cannot follow your deluded argumentation, it is complete bollocks.Originally Posted by chard101
There you go, I've corrected my spelling mistake!For once, I can agree with you.
"I'm sure you'll agree now :) digital assets are not the same as stocks."
You can go back to digressing with me.
At least the judge took the time to learn the difference between digital assets and securities, if only journalists you quote would!
I cannot follow your deluded argumentation, it is complete bollocks.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
It sounds more like you know you are wrong and rather than admit it you just call me deluded.
Are you even able to explain why my assertion is wrong then?
You've chosen some rather poorly written articles and asserted them as fact, which is why I've take the time to post here. I've put forward verifiable facts and a reasoned argument as to why digital assets (XRP etc) are not securities when purchased from the Biance, Huobi etc or purchased programmatically. In other words, the recent ruling is as it should be.
I've yet to hear a counter argument from you beyond "your deluded" and "it is complete bollocks"
Digital assets are not just digital representations of currency or securities. They are something very different and need to be governed with new laws.
Anyway, fair enough, we can leave it there if you want. If you are going to bother responding at least take the time to put forward a reasoned argument.
You are right. To the moon!
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Look who is selling almost 50 Mio shares at 10 pence.... And to be honest, the proceeds (maybe 4mio after fees) will only cover their cash burn for a few weeks or months at best.
I am sure there is a master plan somewhere, only afraid they cannot find it at the moment.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Ive not followed the court case and Im sure lots of clever legal types have been paid huge sums to come up with clever arguments but by the below definition seem crypto meets the definition of a security to me.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/security.asp
But chard101, cryptoexpert563224 on Twitter and the founders of Ripple say otherwise. So now you have been proven wrong and that's the end of it.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Why is it such a big deal ? I assume if it isnt defined as a security they get to avoid all sorts or regulations ?
Regulation = playing by the rules, transparency, disclosure, liability.
Crypto bros no likey regulations.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Why does it matter? If people want to invest in unregulated crypto why try and stop them, its their risk.
And we also go back to the times where everybody else could sell fraudulent securities? Regulation has been created to protect investors from corporate greed. Companies need to disclose conflicts of interest, dealings with related parties, insider sales.
Crypto cannot live with those disclosures, because that is their core feature.
Look at Ripple: two guys invent a coin with a finite supply of 100 billion coins. Then they spin a nonsensical story about the future of payments. After more than 10 years, there is still zero commercial adaptation, but they have managed to create a following that believes their BS claims, every day the price goes up, there are more followers. There are YouTubers, twitter accounts, all of them pushing the coin with the most outrageous claims. Because they don't feel subject to regulation, the company behind the coin discloses no material information. They don't react to abundant fake news about aspiration, if they were a regulated security they had to.
Oh, and by the way the two founders kept 20 billion of the 100billion ever issued for themselves. They are selling into any pump, no matter whether it has been organised in a criminal way by pumper/dumpers or whatever reason. It's insider trading, but nobody follows up on it if Ripple is not a security.
There is a reason for regulation, it protects investors. There is no asset class where investors can opt out of regulation, because the rules have to be the same for everybody.
Once XRP will be ruled a security, everybody involved in it will end up in prison.
Just like all their past heroes: SBF, Mashinsky, Do Kwon....
Last edited by Raffe; 18th July 2023 at 21:12.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Basically so the tokens can be freely used as intended, in automated trading, liquidity pools etc. Only affects the American market but does complicate any kind of progress.
They don't represent investment contracts, which is was the SEC asserted. The Sec was trying to argue all crypto tokens are investment contracts. They are trying to sue Coinbase now.
Rules are definitely needed, just ones that make sense.
Identity is the the biggest issue holding progress back. Without that companies getting involved could be breaking sanctions laws, plus our governments want their tax.
That will take a few years to iron out.
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Buyer beware. If people wish to invest in unregulated garbage let em.
I am a bit worried about my bitcoin position, if this thing drops it could turn violent. All the garbage coins are performing today (SOL, XRP, Doge...), but bitcoin nailed around 30k.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Ripple have over 400 banks using their software services, which is how they make their profit. Not from selling XRP (since 2015).
While getting sued in the US the company has doubled in size around the world. Around 350 employees now.
Clearly they have a product that financial institutions want to use and are expanding their operations. There are other enhancements coming to the XRP ledger which Ripple and other companies / crypto projects use.
The bank on England back in 2017 was testing this tech. Its known that many central banks are testing DLT technology, Ripple / Stella etc because at some point in the future this type of tech will be used to transact.
The issue for crypto companies, like Ripple, Stella, Circle, Coinbase etc is lack of laws and regulations. They have all said as much.
These companies are limited on what they do for this reason, not becuase no one wants to use their products. They are limited becuase their customers are regulated and are limited on the technologies they are allowed to use.
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The CEO from Blackrock recently said in a interview that BR can't participate in the provision of Liquidity in crypo pools becuase of the lack of digital identity.
If BR were to transact with someone on a sanctions list he goes to prison.
This is the reason holding back the use of many good crypto projects. Lack of laws and digital identity.
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Last edited by chard101; 19th July 2023 at 19:38. Reason: typo
400 banks are using Ripple? Source?
Last edited by Raffe; 19th July 2023 at 17:58.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
As you say, buyer beware.
There is a lot of rubbish out there too.
Anyone speculatively investing should research the projects / tokens they put money into.
As they say, "never invest in what you don't understand"
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Some of their Banking partners are listed here.
https://aws.amazon.com/partners/success/ripple/
This was from 2021, they had over 300 customers then, it was said they passed 400 mark now, was said in an interview. To err on the side of caution lets say 300
https://www.linkedin.com/company/rippleofficial
An old list from 2019
https://www.publish0x.com/xrp-commun...-update-xmjwkg
Bank of America has been rumored for years:
https://dailyhodl.com/2022/11/22/ban...%20of%20Ripple.
Clearly all these household names believe Ripple have a software product they think will benefit them.
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This is why it matters:
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/onecoin.asp
London-based banking corporation, Standard Chartered (OTC:SCBFF), adjusts its Bitcoin prediction for 2024 from $100,000 to $120,000, citing increased miner profitability.
Again, total nonsense.
I have worked half my life at SEB, who are on this list. Like many other banks, they have played with various options to use crypto for payments, but have never put this in production. Yet they are on this list.
https://twitter.com/SEBGroup/status/1268104678895747074
Same with Santander, they never implemented anything based beyond tests on ripple and have stopped years ago. Same with Moneygram. Yet, these names are on those lists.
https://blockzeit.com/ripple-xrp-u-s...ecent-victory/
Tell me one bank outside of Russia and North Korea that uses Ripple for production payments. I wait.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I think you are ill informed and taking my points out of context.
BTW Moneygram are now working with Stellar, Ripple competitor, who also use DLT for their network architecture too. Competition is always a good thing for the industry.
https://blog.moneygram.com/cash-to-crypto.html
How can banks in US / Europe expect to be in production without clear regulations / laws / identity, I've said this so many times. Back in 2019 and again now, governments need to catch up with the tech. The US is especially hostile towards this new DLT / blockchain tech.
We are living in a world with a globalised economy. Trustless decentralised DLT solutions solve a very real world issues where we all need to transact and no one trusts each other. No one wants one entity / country controlling it all. Much like the internet except for value transfer.
As for other banks, for example, Japan are more forward thinking in this respect. Japan are putting Ripple's solutions into production.
"Major fund transfer companies have also begun to introduce it, and the use of xRapid using XRP is becoming more widespread, and the number of companies participating in RippleNet is increasing significantly. Therefore, in that sense, I think that Ripples technology will gradually be used in the international remittance field, as well as XRP. Virtual currency is difficult without real demand, but I believe that solid real demand will be born in the future."
https://www.crypto-news-flash.com/ev...e-to-5-report/
The demand he speaks of is when other countries start to use the tech. There is also demand driven from 2 sided liquidity pools and the XPS required to drive projects that are using the soon to be released hooks feature. This stuff is coming, its waiting to be released.
"Prime Minister Kishida speaking at WebX underscores the Japanese governments recognition of the significance of Web3 technology in shaping Japans digital future. Their involvement signifies a strong commitment to driving technological advancements and fostering a favorable ecosystem for Web3 businesses."
https://www.crypto-news-flash.com/we...mona-ai-robot/
So Japan's PM is speaking at a conference basically saying Web3 tech is the future, Japan is going digital for finance. Japan are going DLT domestically!
Here are details of the trial they conducted in 2017 with 47 Japanese banks (presumably the ones which will be in production in the next few years)
https://www.coindesk.com/markets/201...h-ripple-tech/
This is happening, whether you think it is nonsense or not.
Here a question for you: Bitcoins can process a not very speedy 7 transactions per second, uses 127 terawatt-hours (TWh) of electric per year and has constant sell pressure from the miners, most of which are centralised in China. How do you think Bitcoin will fair in the next 5 to 10 years? What world problem does Bitcoin solve?
400 banks? Not a single one.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I corrected that to 300 and yes they are still customers, what's you point exacally?
You ask me to show you banks that are not North Korean or Russian.
Japan are moving into production with Ripples tech. Some already, more to follow.
You said the directors are going to prison, you bet with me the recent case verdict will be overturned by Dec 31st, not at all likely.
The point I've been making all along is Ripple have a legit product which is being used by some banks, and triled by many other.
So, what's you answer on Bitclin then?
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There is not a single bank in the world that has a commercial product with Ripple. Not one.
But mass adoption.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Sold half. Feels weak.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
And meanwhile Dr Craig S Wright's claim that Bitcoin and all its (copy)rights legally belong to him grinds on. Place your bets ladies and gentlemen. Which will collapse first, his attempt for recognition as the creator, or Bitcoin itself.
https://coingeek.com/uk-court-of-app...t-can-proceed/
PS For those who aren't already aware, the website coingeek is strongly associated with the good doctor. See the about link at the bottom of the linked page for further detail.
It will go to zero, if I remember his statement correctly
There is more than one way he can prove beyond all doubt he is SN. But yet, he fails to do so. Just move an early coin or log in to a forum he was active on as SN
Much more likely he ends up in prison for all of his lies.
https://archive.is/20210705075731/ht...5-7b1e02c8cb8d
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Youre clearly an intelligent guy Raffe but has anyone ever told you that you come across quite know all as we say in Liverpool ?
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For a real poke around into his psyche, I would suggest getting hold of a copy of Andrew O'Hagan's book The Secret Life. It's a somewhat odd collection of three biographical essays on identity and ego. The subjects being, Julian Assange, a faked/stolen identity created by O'Hagan himself and lastly Craig Wright.*
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Secret-Life...=33ZIWKUIU361E
https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...assange-review
* ETA: The Craig Wright section entitled The Satoshi Affair is available on, and can be downloaded from, the London Review of Books website.
Last edited by petethegeek; 21st July 2023 at 08:42. Reason: Added LRB link.
From you, that means a lot to me.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Really, you sure about that??There is not a single bank in the world that has a commercial product with Ripple. Not one.
But mass adoption.
Three major banks in Japan (Yamaguchi, Momiji and Kitakyushu) are using the MoneyTap App integration, which in turn uses Ripples commercial DLT product solution RippleNet.
Plenty of sources on google.
Well lets hope so, he's a total snake and another one this industry could do without.
You crypto shill need to learn how the internet works. You can repeat the same claim over again until you believe it yourself, but that doesn't make it true.Really, you sure about that??
Three major banks in Japan (Yamaguchi, Momiji and Kitakyushu) are using the MoneyTap App integration, which in turn uses Ripple’s commercial DLT product solution RippleNet.
Plenty of sources on google.
Your three "major banks" are the three regional brands of the Yamaguchi Group, which all three combined control a whopping 0.5% of Japanese banking assets.
And your "plenty of sources on Google" are a million different crypto shill newsletter pushing out the very same press release by Money Tap from April 2023. It is about the three banks allowing their clients to use the Money Tap app, a Ripple-owned payment system that has been constantly touted by crypto shills since it was founded in 2017. Initially, they projected 60 Japanese bank clients by 2018, well that never happened. So now they are finally onboarding their first three customers, which are actually three brand names of one customer. but a customer at last! But are they? Thei Yamaguchi website is only partly translated into English, so maybe this is not the ultimate sign - but neither the word Ripple nor Money Tap or Moneytap appear on their website. Not one single time. Same for Momiji bank and Kitayashi bank.
So all we have is a press release from a company owned by Ripple (Money Tap) that is repeated thousandfold across the internet. Mass adoption, bro! To the moon, bro!
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Chard could be out by a factor of 10 according to this story.
https://www.ethnews.com/a-ripple-eff...court-triumph/
"Ideally, these dialogues could culminate in tangible business partnerships."
And not only one, but 4,000. Crypto bois really want to be ripped off, there can be no doubt.
Lolz. Lolz. Lolz.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
The new FedNow payments service that the US Gov rolled out yesterday in the hope that all banks and banking service providers adopt it, is apparently an almost identical copy of the Ripple/XRP ledger system.
Is this not almost the same as banks using Ripple?
https://www.federalreserve.gov/payme...dnow_about.htm
Yes, except one is controlled by the Fed and the other by no-one/everyone.
Pays your money and takes your choice
Except that FedNow is the exact opposite of Ripple: it does not use a distributed ledger but keeps a centralised ledger in their cloud. It's a modernised form of the classic account to account central banking system and has absolutely nothing to do with crypto. There is no token that represents the money being transferred.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I was just making the point that the underlying program is an almost identical copy of ripples.
Appreciate that theyre very different though. 👍🏼
Ok so you agree that your are wrong then and there are banks using Ripples technology in production then. Remember you claimed no banks were using it, which is clearly not true. Great! Slowly but surely things are progressing and this new technology is just starting to take root.
I've never claimed XRP is going to the moon, not once so stop trying to insinuate I have been. I keep saying this is going to take years but the point is we have progress. Back in 2019 on this thread you categorically told me XRP was a scam and going to 0. You were wrong about that too.
The news about FedNow is interesting. They are using Interer Legder Protocol (ILP) developed and Open Sourced by Ripple. This is so the standard can be freely used by others without the need to use Ripples products. Just to be clear as far as I'm aware FedNow and not using Ripples services but are using their ILP protocol. This makes it easy for Fed now to connect to whatever they need to in the future.
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Yes you are right, they are using DLT tech to deliver this and ILP to connect.
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Yes you are right, they are using DLT tech to deliver this and ILP to connect.
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So much of this court case stuff goes over my head that it’s almost frightening but I have 20,000 XRP tokens all bought at less than 30p and I’ve withdrawn my original investment money long ago, so I’m happy to play the long game and see how this pans out….
The great thing here is that DLT tech and ILP is being adopted as standard.
This is good as years down the line as the financial system evolves other Assets will be tokenised / traded.
ILP is for money (value) as TCP/IP is used for all internet communications. Its good for the industry a common standard has been choosen.
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Nice, good choice sir!So much of this court case stuff goes over my head that its almost frightening but I have 20,000 XRP tokens all bought at less than 30p and Ive withdrawn my original investment money long ago, so Im happy to play the long game and see how this pans out.
It is gong to be a long game and there will be many winners. It's going to be a huge industry in years to come.
When liquidity pools come to the XRPL you will be able to stake your XRP and others assets (like BTC / USD) and earn fees from people using the pools for swaps etc. As these pools are at the network layer and a not a smart contract so you are gaurenteed to be able to redeem you LP tokens.
Hooks and liquidity pools are two massive enhancements coming in the next 12 months. That said I'm not going to rush into the pools, maybe test will a small amount first for a year.
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Last edited by chard101; 22nd July 2023 at 08:43.
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