Reply With QuoteYes I’m aware of that, but it’s not what I’d call money or currency even pre 70s. I don’t think anyone has thought of gold as money for a long time.
No, it wasn't in name only. The Dollar and Gold were in fact one and the same, with a fixed exchange rate and a guarantee to exchange one for the other.Originally Posted by demonloop
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system
Yes I’m aware of that, but it’s not what I’d call money or currency even pre 70s. I don’t think anyone has thought of gold as money for a long time.
All this sudden mania and fomo for Bitcoin just makes me think many people don’t understand the basics of finance.
There are many places to store your capital (wealth) ... for most people is property(and land), equities, bonds and gilts, commodities (inc. gold) and cash/money (£, $ , Bitcoin etc ) plus some other slightly more complex non-retail stuff like derivatives etc ...
Most people store their capital in assets that have utility and/or create yields ... and they hope for some level of capital appreciation.
Money/cash has no utility it is a means of exchange. But you can of course store capital in it ...
Bitcoin is just another currency in which you can store capital, it has absolutely no utility and there is no reason why all of a sudden this is the currency of the future and that it’s exchange rate should rocket.
No one previously rushed to invest in FX ...
Bitcoin has one advantage over traditional currencies right now in that it’s not being debased by central bank money printing, but neither is gold or land ...they are not making any more of that either ...
Bitcoin is nothing more than a speculative currency and it is highly volatile and highly fashionable making it the perfect tool for some to make a quick buck ... but others will get burnt.
I can see some value in crypto as we move to a more digital society but for now I trust my wealth to “the system” I can’t see governments losing control of money ... it’s at the absolute foundation of civilisation as we know it. If the money systems fail it will be anarchy.
But that's not what you said.
Nobody would have said that, as gold was the money before money. Since we stopped paying with shells and until 1971, gold was the standard which determined what a currency was worth - not the other way around. So your comparison is absolutely pointless and nonsensical. There was no other medium than gold for storing value 2000 years ago, which is the exact opposite of what you said in your quote above.
The difference between Gold and Bitcoin is that BTC can be directly swapped for Lambos.Gold needs to be converted into another currency first. Plus BTC is the only currency accepted on the moon.
This is why 1 BTC will be worth $1000000000000000 soon
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Fact check: true.
I’m not sure about lambo shopping but I think I’m going to scratch an itch I’ve had for a mk1 Audi TT with some of the profits although if it keeps going it could be an R32, it’s all a punt to me with btc that’s paid off
Raffe I think we’re going in circles a bit with what each of us view as money/assets etc. I think I’m seeing Bitcoin as something I’m struggling to really explain — but I see something. Only time will tell what Bitcoin becomes, I hope the forum still exists to have the discussion regardless of who ends up right or wrong.
An excellent point, and one real difference (certainly for me) between the pro btc and anti btc brigades. I don’t trust the system at all, never did but certainly not after the Financial crisis. Btc being decentralised is a major reason for my thinking.
If you think the system will fail then your Bitcoin won’t help you ... you will just need weapons.
Well, as it happens... (jokes, I am/was a target rifle shooter, but I don’t view my rifle as a weapon)
I don’t think the system will fail as such, but I think it will come under increasing stress. And as it does, alternatives will increase in value. But I actively choose to limit my exposure to “the system”
How? I assume you have no property as the land registry will fail, and no equities as all the brokers and markets will implode.
The best solution if you feel the system will fail is guns and a big bag of gold coins. Because when the system fails the internet will be gone along with your Bitcoin.
The argument for Bitcoin as a hedge against the failure of the system and government backed currency is just a fantasy.
Post just above yours: I don’t think the system will fail. But I certainly don’t have trust in it.
Maybe it’s just how I’m hard wired.
I can limit my exposure to many things that the system controls. Debt & the banking system being the main one - I’ll use them to my advantage, but I certainly don’t think they have my interests at heart.
With my romantic hat on, it would be great if a challenge to the established systems (btc for example) made the system change its ways for the better.
Ah well, Lambos are rubbish anyway
Stimmy to Tesla via Bitcoin - https://www.ft.com/content/7db70ec4-...c-8d4e9b10717d
Subscription only.
What's a stimmy?
https://twitter.com/hashtag/stimmy
Oh! A stimulus cheque! Thx.
There's a wider crypto world than just Bitcoin and the headlines it generates. The Ethereum platform is driving massive technology change.
Does it?
An example, if you please.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
New all-time high: 35,766 USD (Binance)
Ryan can re-start lambo shopping - over $35k
Awesome news. However my BTC is exclusively in my SIPP via Microstrategy and as I am 43 years old I will sadly need to wait a while before buying the Lambo ;-(
Looks like a share going sideways for a decade then a massive recent boom and all the directors selling ... assuming it's the same Microstrategy ??
https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-s...director-deals
Same although the sales seem options related and the last one was 3rd Dec and the stock price is up significantly since then.
It is a punt for me - using the company as a Proxy to stick BTC in my SIPP. I also have a much smaller holding in Argo Blockchain PLC who do crypto mining. The majority of my portfolio remains in low cost index trackers.
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Seems an odd outfit. Their core business is nothing to do with Bitcoin, but because they have decided to use Bitcoin as their reserve currency they have become a proxy for Bitcoin which has nothing to do with their core business.
Looks like the options were going nowhere and the Bitcoin play has given them a nice pay day.
The dollar continues to devalue... Now at all time lows vs bitcoin.
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DeFi
https://www.coindesk.com/what-is-defi
Except that it doesn't exist.
It's a concept with zero adoption.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
It's also about to hit an ATH
Incorrect.
I use it, so there is adoption. I know others that do too.
You have enough info to DYOR now.
Any usage still rounds down to zero, it is too marginal to register in any statistic.
To have a market share of one thousands of one percent (I have no idea how big it is, guessing here) and talk about disruption with an instrument which has existed for over 10 years is nothing but laughable.
I get that people are free to invest in what they like and if they want to enter the speculative world of gambling on horses or Bitcoin then that’s up to them.
But please please please spare us the BS of trying to justify that it is useful or has an inherent value.
Every penny I invest is the fruits of my hard work so I am naturally cautious. My 24 year old maths genius son who works in data analysis is happy to play with Bitcoin and is doing ok ..... so maybe a generational thing. At least he doesn’t try and justify that it’s worth anything more than the next guy is willing to give for it
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I did Maths at Uni, but was no genius. My job involves a fair bit of data analysis too! Best of luck to him.
It is probably a generational and most definitely a mindset thing. Some people get it and some don't.
I hold it as a hedge and diversification. I do not have trust in our monetary system. If I get a 2.71828x return I will take some profit to invest elsewhere and let the rest ride. If it crashes, then thats life.
There is plenty of analysis, critique and information out there and fully agree to DYOR.
How much is a new Ferrari, and what’s the waiting list like? I’m wondering whether I should cash in now rather than risk selling when the car is ready for delivery lol
It's just a matter of time...
There was a post by a guy in Lebanon who was doing work online, getting paid in Bitcoin and then converting it via local p2p groups to buy food, their economy is in a bad way since the explosion with massive inflation and major job losses. Similar usage in venuezela and I’m told some South African states.
I don’t know much about defi but it’s current market cap is over $20billion so would appear to be getting some use.
Half of Africa pays each other with mobile phone minutes. Suppose the volume of those transactions is a thousand times bigger. And cash Dollar transactions are the benchmark for pricing in Venezuela, even if a transfer or two are conducted in BTC, the buyer just buys the BTC for the purpose and as soon as the seller receives it, they are converted back. Coz you don't buy no potatoes with bitcoin.
Sounded same in Lebanon, the guy talked about selling the btc for local currency to buy food and pay bills. I think it’s more to avoid the hyper inflation but also makes it easier to sell services internationally.
Bit surprised they use btc for it rather than one of the other cryptos that doesn’t have the same performance issues but if it works most of the time that’s probably good enough.
Why not use Paypal or one of the hundred other payment systems?
You don't have the risk that the value of your 'currency' drops by 20% before you have a chance to exchange it and the fees are much lower.
Current fees for a payment in BTC are about $11. https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitco...ransaction_fee
It’s funny how ‘we’ value Bitcoin, if someone said to you, what is a pound worth? The answer might be, a pound is a pound, but ask what is a Bitcoin worth, it’s value is calculated in ‘real’ money.
Cheers..
Jase
A pound is a Dollar thirty-five.
This is the correct answer; the USD has been the global reserve currency for just over 100 years ... I think it is likely to be so for a little longer ...
I don’t know why they don’t use paypal, perhaps they could, but they don’t. Same as we could all use Tesco (or probably Waitrose around here) but other options also exist.
The performance issue is entwined with the high transaction fees and that’s not inherent to block chain but a result of design decisions made by the Bitcoin developers. It’s a very toxic discussion and that’s probably intentional. There are plenty of vested interests in seeing crypto currency’s fail.
This thread takes me back to when building societies stopped with those old school account books and going into town to do all banking in person, and then they introduced debit cards and phased out the books. My mum was horrified and kept changing building societies to ones that hadn't phased out the books yet.
Just because something is new and you don't understand it (or even want to take the time to understand it) does not mean it is without value.
I think I understand Blockchain very well. I am also an early adopter of new technology. The problem is, there is no adoption of Blockchain and people keep talking bullshit about disruption.
Drink the Kool-aid, no problem. But don't complain when the music stops and there are no chairs.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
In concept (and indeed implementation) Bitcoin clearly solved a couple of problems: trustless, permissionless payments and the ability to make micro payments. Whether you consider those problems that were worth solving is moot really - the technology and actually using it is rather amazing.
Accordingly I would argue that the technology absolutely does have some utility, it’s “value” is not zero. However, I think it is clear that today it is certainly not very useful as a currency partly (mainly?) because the cost of transacting on the platform (ignoring lightning or other second/subsequent layer solutions) is disproportionately high for smaller transactions. It also has a very high “comprehension” barrier to entry - it’s just not straightforward to use or understand especially when something doesn’t happen as expected.
It seems to me (as an interested but not expert) observer that we are in a situation where the price itself is the product - the fact that it can be used to “store” large quantities of money (and has some helpful qualities like limited and clearly defined supply; very low management/holding cost; high liquidity; etc.) in an era of low to negative interest rates together with lots and lots of money sloshing around looking for a return means it’s “purpose” right now is simply to be valuable because people with money are prepared to treat it as such.
I don’t really know what the implications of that might be - presumably as long as people believe it meets their requirements it will continue to be valuable until they don’t any more! However, right now a lot of people who control a lot of money seem to believe it will continue to appreciate which makes me think we have a long way to go on the current trajectory.
Finally I believe that we haven’t actually worked out what it is going to be for in the long run ... but equally I am not sure it has to have any intrinsic value beyond simply being what it is.
Not sure if this is old news or not
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...anks-pgswbfrdz
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Viewing bitcoin as a currency is slightly missing the point. It is essentially a commodity like gold with a rarity that attracts value attributed by the market.
Starting to get worried ;-)
Crooks in suits the lot of them.
As is perhaps illustrated by this seemingly savvy if somewhat unfortunate individual - https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurre...e_im_an_idiot/
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