Reply With QuoteLooks more like an old Zenith to me
Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this post:
Bought upon a gamble for £12 posted within the UK, the advert simply stated 'vintage super automatic watch' , has awful quality pics and no other info. I really wish they didn't take the photo's with a potato but they did.
I noticed where it says 'super' something on the left side, reminded me of the dial text of a 'Zodiac Sea Wolf' and also the logo at top of the dial reminded me of Zodiac, I highly doubt it is a Zodiac though.
The only other info supplied is that it works and runs etc.
Can anyone shed any info whatsoever on this mystery vintage watch before it arrives? I will be forever grateful if you're able to.
Thanks
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Looks more like an old Zenith to me
You Will probably get low tier chrome gold plated handwind watch
.
Either FE, handwind Ronda or FHF inside, or some kind of Cattin movement.
And no,it is not Zenith.
But it looks nice.
Good luck - you're going to need it.
In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.
Likely to be gold plated with lots of wear-through around the corners.
In the majority of cases an old watch like this will need servicing thoroughly to get it working properly, and that's going to cost money. Factor in a new strap and probably a new glass, plus cost of service, and the £12 bargain becomes a £150 watch.
If the movement's a decent one (AS or ETA) it'll sell for parts and probably make more than £12!
Paul
Succinct.Originally Posted by Carlton-Browne
Good luck - you're going to need it.
TBH that does look incredibly cheap, as most things that have "unbreakable mainspring", "shock protected" etc etc emblazoned on the dial usually are.
Cheers,
Neil.
Thanks all for your helpful replies. I won’t be losing any sleep if the watch turns out to be a rubbish one for £12, which given everyone’s advice it probably is, regardless when I receive it I’ll upload clear photos. A man can dream that one day he’ll pick up a vintage Zenith for a tenner! Thank you all again.
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Exactly... But it might turn out to be nice vintage crummy watch. I had lot of fun with these vintage cheapos
It's doable. I've done it three times, although technically one of those was a wall clock. Of the other two, one was a 1970s GP quartz, and the other was a trench watch dating to 1914. So don't give up hope just yet.
Thank you all for your help regarding the ‘mystery watch’. Have just received delivery of it, will take and upload photos shortly.
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It’s an ‘Ovaras Super’ 17J, manual wind. Heavy wear to the gold plating on all the edges as predicted earlier by someone. For some odd reason, part of the gasket is hanging out of the back casing where the last person who opened it up hasn’t located and sealed it properly. It doesn’t look damaged and I’m going to get it sealed properly later today. Timed the watch and it appears to be keeping time to approx 20s per day, not bad for a £12 watch!
If anyone has any more info on this watch/Brand I’d love to hear from you and would greatly appreciate it. For £12 I’m probably going to wear this one as my new daily.
Thanks in advance
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Not unattractive once tidied up a bit. What size is it out of interest?
Never heard of them before! Good to see it's running alright. Any hint as to power reserve?
Also, what is that timegrapher app on your mobile?
The timegrapher app is called hairspring, I think it’s only available on iOS. I have tried other similar apps on android devices but to me they don’t seem as user friendly. It costs £5, it’s saved me so many times from buying watches in person that are running at -900s etc. If you are on iOS also take a look at ‘WatchTracker’ , it’s similar but gives a more accurate timing over longer periods.
I had never heard of Ovaras before today either, not much info available online so am hoping someone will help me out on here. I’ve not got a clue yet to power reserve, have just given her a full wind and fingers crossed she doesn’t stop whilst wearing today haha. All the best and if you try the time grapher app I hope it helps you as much as it does me.
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There seems to be some tortuous link to the attempted assassination of John Paul II (no, not that John Paul).
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f11/nee...as-713711.html
Nice original clock from a company with a rich history connected with the communist secret services and Turkish nationalist groups. The company exists today but is engaged in trading and operation and maintenance of vending machines. Produces watches with high quality and low prices (money laundering and finance black ops) since the early 70s to mid 80s. Official founder of the company is Bekir Celenk. The Turkish suspect of conspiring to kill the Pope, Bekir Celenk, is being tried in absentia in Rome. The other defendants are three Bulgarians and four other Turks, including Mehmet Ali Agca, the convicted assailant of Pope John Paul II. All eight are accused of conspiring to kill the Pope, and Mr. Agca is the star prosecution witness. The implication of the prosecution's case been that the Soviet Union, through the Bulgarian secret service, was involved in hatching the purported plot to kill the Pope. Mr. Celenk, who traveled throughout Western and Eastern Europe after leaving Turkey in 1960, settled in Switzerand in 1969, setting up a small watch trading company called Ovaras S.A. in the Swiss watchmaking center of Biel.
Swiss drug investigators in Basel said that the police began linking Mr. Celenk's name with drug trafficking in the early 1960's and that they later suspected him of using Ovaras and its Swiss bank accounts to hide drug profits. For the Turkish market are ordered parts in Taiwan and Hong Kong but not mechanics. Externally can distinguish whether it is for Europe the English inscription for the day of the week.
In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.
Mikrolisk helps a bit, and directed me here:
http://forums.watchuseek.com/#/topics/713711
You didn't buy it from Bulgaria by any chance?
You’ll have to excuse me for being an amateur as I’m not sure if this is the correct way to measure, but including crown it appears to be 38mm measured with a measuring tape left to right. The watch has definitely been ‘pre loved’ , I’ll probably have a go at polishing the crystal up a bit but won’t be spending any money on her as I’d love to keep it as a £12 watch. Thanks for your input, much appreciated and all the best.
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Thank you very much for your help, I’ve not heard of microlisk before so am going to check it out. Thanks for the directed link also. Bought from within the U.K. at £10 + £2 post, it was advertised with the awful photo and no information that is at the beginning of this thread. Thanks for your help
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What app is this please?
Hairspring, available on iOS devices. Costs £5 and is extremely handy. Hope it helps you if you decide to use it.
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No problem. A movement picture would be nice if you can take the back off safely. There might be a nice ETA in there.
That is insane, thank you for researching the information and for sharing! Maybe I should invest in a balaclava to compliment the watch haha. Very interesting, thank you.
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Well.. That is a strange catch indeed. Good thing it could have a decent swiss movement inside... But that history...
Thanks!
Or probably a pin pallet.
Screw back is a good sign though.
But we'll wait and see.
Incidentally I have got a large box full of those types of cases and backs here in the garage. Mostly snap backs though.
Cheers,
Neil.
Thanks for the insight regarding screw down case back, I’m guessing this means it’s slightly higher quality than a watch with a snap on case. The watchmaker I usually run these things past is currently on holiday, but within the next few days I’ll be able to get him to take the case back off to get some movement pics, watch this space.
All that I have done to the watch so far is remove the tired leather strap and fit a gold tone expander that I had laying around, I think it suits the watch a bit better and it’s kept the total cost at £12.
I’ve also exhausted my research with the Ovaras watch company history, another photo attached.
Thanks all for your help and movement pics shall be taken in next few days.
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If it helps anyone with identification of the type of movement (which is difficult I know without pics) , the seconds are non-hacking, also there is no quick set for the date. I had to manually wind the watch forward 28 whole days to set the correct day, the day wheel changed over fine and smoothly every 24h.
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That’ll do the canon pinion the power of good, can’t think of a better way to accelerate wear.
As for phone aps that supposedly indicate how a watch is running, I wouldn’tt trust any of them. Sometimes it can be difficult to get a timegrapher to pick up the tick of a watch properly, but with a full set of readings you can tell when it’s showing duff information. Usually gripping the clamp onto the crown more positively will correct this.
Paul
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 6th November 2017 at 18:54.
Hi Paul,
I’ll try to explain this the best I can, please bare with me as I’m not an expert and quite new to the hobby. The crown only pulls out one click, to my understanding and every other watch I’ve owned with a date wheel there will be two ‘clicks’ or crown positions, but there is only one with this vintage Ovaras watch. When the crown is pulled out to its one and only position, it is the position for setting the time. Hence why I said in a previous post the watch movement does not feature quick set day, I hope I’m using the correct terminology.
Would you be able to suggest an easier way that I could have set the date without ‘accelerating wear’ to the watch? When I received it and opened the parcel, the date was set three days ahead, so the only way was to manually wind it forward approx 28 days. You can’t wind them backwards 3 days.
If I’m missing something please do let me know.
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One suggestion would be waiting 3 days before starting the watch. I wouldn't worry though, as long as you were reasonably careful then no harm done. After all, you have the wear of decades already, plus the Papal plot and the money laundering - it must have had a hard life already :).
I understand your view on apps for watch timing, please don’t think in any of my replies that I’m being argumentative either as I’m not. I appreciate everyone’s input etc and this forum is a great place to get help.
With the timegrapher app I’ve been recommending to everyone, I personally think it is great. I feel that it works best on an iPhone 6 or above, and from advice received you can use an external microphone to hear the watches ticking better etc. I use my phone and the app as a timegrapher all the time, it has to be in a silent room though. I’ve compared it with a watchmakers proper timegrapher machine and it gives exactly the same readings. I also test my watches in all the different positions to see the positional variance.
The second app I use is called watch tracker, and I feel there can’t be any doubt really to if it works well or not. It synchronises with the atomic clock, asks you to press a button when your watch displays a certain time, then calculates how much it’s gained or lost over a period of time. I take readings approx every three hours when I’m testing a watch, then after 24, 48 hours etc you get a more accurate graph showing how much gain or loss the watch has made. I’ll include a more detailed insight to the second app via photo. The two combined give me great results in determining the timings of mechanical watches.
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I suppose I could have wore a different watch and waited three days before wearing this one you’re absolutely right. Then though, at the end of every month that doesn’t have 31 days, I’d be in a precarious situation of having to wait another 28 odd days before wearing the watch again rather than setting the date forward a day or two etc and causing accelerated wear to the watch. I.e there’s 30 days in November, on the 1st of December this watch will be displaying the 31st. Would only be setting it forward one day in that scenario though so not too much acceleration of the wear.
For the price I paid I think the story is more valuable than the actual watch, it’s likely had a hard life already as you say. Hardly any gold tone left on the case at all lol. All the best mate and thanks for your input, much appreciated.
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I think its a great story - you definitely got your £12 worth
I have an old Rolex that doesn't have a quickset date and you have to wind it forward a lot to change the date. Just saying...waiting for those movement pics :).
Early date date watches didn`t have a quickset function or a separate date-setting position, that's just the way they were. My 1950 Omega cal 343, Omegas first date watch, is just as bad and consequently I`ve never had the date set correctly in all the years I`ve owned it. On later watches it was usually possible to quickset the date by turning the hands back to around 9 o clock then turning through midnight again, not ideal but a whole lot better than turning many many times. My Omega doesn`t have this, turning back to 9 simply turns the date back I day but that's sufficient to correct for a 30 day month.
The canon pinion works like a clutch, when the watch is in handset the canon pinion (which on a conventional design carries the minute hand) can rotate independent of the centre wheel, it's a friction fit but putting the watch in handset locks the movement and allows the hr wheel and minute wheel to move but not the centre wheel. The canon pinion eventually wears and there isn`t enough friction to carry it around on the centre wheel when the watch is running. An indication of a worn canon pinion is a very loose action when handsetting, there should always be some resistance.
It stands to reason that the canon pinion only wears when the hands are being set, so if a watch is kept running there will be very little wear incurred. Worst case scenario is setting non-quickset dates frequently. These watches were designed in the days when folks had one watch and it got worn every day, so the problem didn`t really exist. Also, no-one expected these watches to last 50-60 years!
Paul
Thanks Paul, you genuinely are a lot, lot more knowledgable than I in regards to mechanical watch movements. Next time I shall try winding back to 9 and then forth again to see if this movement works in that way. Thank you.
Also just looked up a picture of an Omega cal 343, what a beauty!
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When I had a DRSD that didn't have the quick date change facility, so I used to leave it in the safe and bring it out when the Watch required no more than 24 hours turning to be correct, a bit extreme I know, but I didn't want to sit there turning the crown round and round endlessly.
Most of my watches are vintage, and the date is changed on some by having to wind back to around 8:00p.m. or further.
I own this watch with the same model name in the same style of font, that uses a movement used in Orient watches. I have seen this "Crystal" name used on other watches too.
Good luck with your watch.
Last edited by bobbee; 23rd August 2019 at 06:06. Reason: Reinstating images
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