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Thread: Game over

  1. #51
    Grand Master
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    I've not really taken my dslr out since getting the leica q which is about a year ago. I suppose it's rendered it redundant unless I want a wide angle shot.

    I do take pics with my phone, and they're great, on screen.
    Try printing one at a decent size though.
    For that alone id never part with carrying an actual camera. No matter how far the phone tech has advanced.

  2. #52
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senninha View Post
    Agree, but all the same many people will consider their smartphone as 'good enough', and will no longer carry - and certainly no longer upgrade - their compact camera. For others smartphone camera still have a LONG way to go, and a proper camera is much preferred.

    I find myself 90% in the latter camp. If my smartphone is what I have I'll gratefully use it - but the photos are always pretty crap. Dynamic range is poor, noise is high, not great sharpness, limited control without arsing around in settings - also slow to use. When you're used to a DSLR, lift, shoot, done, and image quality is excellent. Pretty much every good image I've taken with my smartphone I feel dissatisfied with the quality of, and wished I'd had a proper camera with me.

    It's hard to see that changing - technology is marching on, but here we're talking more about physical limits. How many photons will strike a given surface area in a given exposure time. The phone has't got the real estate to make the sensor bigger, and you can't increase exposure time without having movement in the image. Perhaps eventually there can be several small sensors, and stitch the image together? But for now I think there's life in proper cameras.
    Yes, I'm pretty much with you on this, save that i can get very decent quality images from my iPhone. I do take a camera with me if I know i may be out and about, though... somehow it seems like the right thing to do, and I actually go full frame when I'm shooting landscapes and nature.

  3. #53
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    At the moment it's great - the old adage of the best camera is the one you have with you. But afterwards when you want to use or enjoy the image it's not so great. An example below was from a business trip - walking back from a dinner and was a lovely view of the harbour, and of course I had my phone. In the small version such as on screen it looks fine, but at print size or on a big screen there is almost no detail there at all (see enlarged part).

    Which is reasonable - takes a lot of compromise to have a small sensor with tiny photosites capture a hand-held image in near darkness, and it's amazing that we can. But I always find the results fine for a memory, but unusable for pretty much anything else.


  4. #54
    Grand Master Velorum's Avatar
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    Nice to see that the humble OM10 is still appreciated. In the 70's one of these was my first auto SLR. I didnt have the manual adapter so made adjustments to exposure values by adjusting that ASA settings.

    At the moment I am exploring the world of rangefinders and am very impressed with the Olympus 35SP.

    I tend to stick to one lens and zoom with my feet so the fixed 40mm f1.7 fitted is just fine. In fact its a great lens I think. The spot metering is splendid. I use a medium yellow Hoya filter but no hood as I like to keep things as compact as possible.

    Its great to be out and about taking photos with a 45 year old camera.

    35mm film photography has rekindled my interest and enthusiasm.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokyo Tokei View Post
    Took the last of my Nikon lenses to the dealer today, having released my one remaining Nikon camera (D500) a week ago.

    This means the following (at least) have come and gone in about 15 years:

    Nikon: D500, D750, D700, D2X, D50, D40, D3100, V1, F4, F90, F70, FM2, FE, FA, Nikonos V, Nikonos IV
    Olympus: OM10, Pen EE, EPL, EP, XA2, AF-1, Mju Zoom, Trip, EC
    Ricoh: GR, GRD2, GRD4
    Pentax: K10D, K20, K7, W80, W40
    Epson: R-D1G
    Rollei: 35S
    Leica: M2, X1, Minilux, CL
    Fujifilm: X100, XP40
    Sony/Minolta: RX100, Cybershots, Hi-Matic 7, Hi-Matic E, Hi-Matic 9
    Contax: G, TVS2
    Minox: 35GT
    Konica: Hexar
    Panasonic: LX5, GF1, GF3, GF5, G, G3, GX1

    Lenses: hundreds

    I can't recall many of the ones I used and traded quickly. There were some medium format film cameras for example, and I've forgotten all the compacts and early digitals.

    Remaining for now:

    Panasonic/Lumix GX7
    Canon P
    Olympus Mju, XA

    The GX7 is hanging around as it is better for long video than the iPhone or a DSLR, with quite a high (~30Mbps) quality bitrate. The film cameras remain excellent, albeit of no monetary value, but take little space.

    So... at the dealer and with some cash in hand I strolled around and pretty much nothing grabbed me. Maybe it's all over? Pondered a Ricoh Theta, the 360 degree photo thing, but decided after the first few photos that I'd tire of the novelty rapidly. Thought about another Pentax DSLR, as the ones I owned before were not just good but interesting. Anything small is usually beaten by the iPhone these days and rapidly becomes redundant. I don't feel the need for 40+ megapixels, which seems to be where the big guns are going in order to differentiate themselves. I was quite happy with 6MP from the D50 and Epson R-D1. The high ISO performance of the Nikon D750 and D500 was staggering, but not reason enough to keep them. I can't get excited about the measurebators and their endless discussion of micro-contrasts and per-pixel whatever and how their lens "draws".

    So what to do? I know, it's an "equipment" thing, and while I am generally mainly interested in the end result (I still print my photos...) the tool itself has some appeal. I just can't see anything inspiring. Maybe because in those 15 years my kids have grown up and I don't have much to photo now that couldn't be adequately captured with the iPhone? Maybe because there is no Yoshihisa Maitani, no one interested in a thoughtful design, solving a problem in an interesting way.

    Thinking of Olympus, coincidentally I was at a presentation today about that company, where it was mentioned that less than 9% of their revenue is from consumer cameras. The rest is medical and industrial devices.

    So perhaps it is game over for the all the traditional camera makers too? Well, it was fun for a while.
    Why did you flog the X100? They are incredibly annoying in many respects but I think they are wonderful bits of kit for the money. I retired from Press work a few years back, and it's the only camera I now own. Oh and a Sony Rx100 m3- surprisingly good for a compact.


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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogdensnut View Post
    Why did you flog the X100?
    As you can probably tell from my lamentable history of camera-promiscuity, I have a magpie's eye for shiny new things and most cameras don't last long in my possession. My thoughts on the X100 are here. The first version at least, the one I owned, even with the many firmware updates was really a beta-level product as far as being usable. It was, as you say, annoying. Plus with its daft hood system, it was no smaller in reality than my DSLR with pancake lens, but offered considerably more drawbacks. The hipster crowd adoration for it didn't help much either. "Ya, I'm using a rangefinder...". No, no you are not. I binned the RX100 too. Not a fan of Sony's user interface.
    Last edited by Tokyo Tokei; 11th November 2017 at 21:54.

  7. #57
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    If I had the money I too would be 'promiscuous'. Glad to see you kept your XA! I've still got my OM2n. As for new kit, you tried the Leica Q?


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  8. #58
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Game over

    Well, Ironically I've just bought another camera - the RX10 III listed on SC, with it's amazing 24-600 equivalent zoom. It has a slightly smaller sensor that I'd ideally have in it, but the lens imposes it's own constraints in that respect and the IQ is seemingly superb right through the zoom range.

    Not sure what this means for my a6300, but time will tell. It won't touch the a7RII as I want a full frame option, but I'm not sure that I need three cameras plus the iPhone!
    Last edited by learningtofly; 12th November 2017 at 13:47.

  9. #59
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    Iíve just bought a FX D810, not sure about keeping the m4/3 Oly OM-D E-M1 MK II now.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    Iíve just bought a FX D810, not sure about keeping the m4/3 Oly OM-D E-M1 MK II now.
    What do you take when you go on holiday etc? Lugging a DSLR around is the last thing I want to do. Unless you've got a decent compact I'd say hang on to at least one. And sometimes you might want a camera that is a bit more discreet, depending on what you are shooting. The D810s aren't exactly light or inconspicuous! Cracking bits of kit tho.


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  11. #61
    Craftsman willie_gunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    Iíve just bought a FX D810, not sure about keeping the m4/3 Oly OM-D E-M1 MK II now.
    Likewise, I'd say keep it.

    I travel a lot for work - last week Nairobi, this week Moscow, next week Kuwait.

    I wouldn't take the D750 but can pack the Panasonic M4/3 and a couple of lenses easy. This gives so much more flexibility than an iPhone.

    I'd never give up the D750 though, for reasons we've discussed in the other thread.

  12. #62
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    I'm veering towards this thinking too - as in keep the DSLR alongside a smaller kit.

  13. #63
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    This thread is conspiring against my wallet. Had a play with a Fuji X-T2 on Saturday and are seriously considering ditching all my Canon kit for an X-T2. Problem is, I want the 16-55/2.8 and then it's not so compact. However, I figure if I buy a used 35/2.0 for when want to go light and use the 16-55 for general use then I have best of both worlds. This pic really shows the dramatic size difference, the Fuji must be much more dense because the weight difference feels much less than the size diff. I loved the handling and feel of the camera, it exudes quality and great engineering.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by mondie; 13th November 2017 at 17:32.

  14. #64
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    Fuji is really great, I moved there from Nikon a few years ago and never looked back. Image quality great, as well as build quality and handling - plus the advantage of WYSIWYG through the viewfinder. Depending upon the lenses it ends up not a 'small' system, but much neater than a DSLR of equivalent capability (my pet peeve with CaNikon is the more high end the camera, the bigger they make it - presumably to make it feel like better value for the high price. Hence why Sony growing so fast now)

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senninha View Post
    Fuji is really great, I moved there from Nikon a few years ago and never looked back. Image quality great, as well as build quality and handling - plus the advantage of WYSIWYG through the viewfinder. Depending upon the lenses it ends up not a 'small' system, but much neater than a DSLR of equivalent capability (my pet peeve with CaNikon is the more high end the camera, the bigger they make it - presumably to make it feel like better value for the high price. Hence why Sony growing so fast now)
    I agree. Love Fuji. I sold my Nikon kit and have an X100 and XE2s. Image quality is great. If you have an XT1 or 2 you also have a body that is weather sealed. Fuji is clearly not on a par with Nikon for lightning fast AF and Its superior flash system but has many advantages. You Can get some seriously good glass for Fuji for starters. It's horses for courses. A pro sports shooter wouldn't use a Fuji. But the boundaries are Definately becoming more blurred.


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  16. #66
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    Mobile phone cameras are very good indeed.

    I recently spent a couple of weeks in Tenerife and had wonderful bright sunny days and took quite a few snaps with my phone, I say snaps because I couldn't see a damn thing on the phones screen and had to a lot more work in post to get something presentable.......

  17. #67
    Craftsman mondie's Avatar
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    Mobile phone cameras are fantastic when the lighting is good. Sometimes in certain situations my S8 displays a better dynamic range than my Canon DSLR and that is what started me down the road of considering moving away from DSLRs towards Fuji.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by mondie View Post
    Mobile phone cameras are fantastic when the lighting is good. Sometimes in certain situations my S8 displays a better dynamic range than my Canon DSLR and that is what started me down the road of considering moving away from DSLRs towards Fuji.
    As a camera that most people carry all of the time they are fantastic. I have caught many images I would have missed had I ran to get my camera or indeed just didn't have one to hand. As the saying goes, the best camera is the camera you always have with you (or something like that). I know one bloke that never leaves home without his M series film Leica - I'm not that dedicated anymore!


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  19. #69
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    Well- Iíve bitten the bullet this week. The Nikon D7100 has gone, as have several lenses, flash etc. In its place is a Fuji X-T20 with XF 18-55 and XF 35mm f2 lenses.

    I was very tempted by the X-T2 and also with both XF 16-55 and XF18-135 lenses- in some ways the X-T 2 is better handling. However with these options you start getting back to a sizeable piece of kit- which rather defeats the object of the exercise.

    Iíve kept my Nikon 50mm f1.8 and 85mm f1.8 lenses - they work with my Nikon FE and I can get an adapter to allow them to work with the Fuji. That should keep me going until I can afford the (rather tasty) XF 90mm.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalMass View Post
    Well- Iíve bitten the bullet this week. The Nikon D7100 has gone, as have several lenses, flash etc. In its place is a Fuji X-T20 with XF 18-55 and XF 35mm f2 lenses.

    I was very tempted by the X-T2 and also with both XF 16-55 and XF18-135 lenses- in some ways the X-T 2 is better handling. However with these options you start getting back to a sizeable piece of kit- which rather defeats the object of the exercise.

    Iíve kept my Nikon 50mm f1.8 and 85mm f1.8 lenses - they work with my Nikon FE and I can get an adapter to allow them to work with the Fuji. That should keep me going until I can afford the (rather tasty) XF 90mm.
    The XT20 looks a lovely bit of kit. I think if you can live without waterproofing I'd defo go for the XT20 over the XT2. it's great value for money.


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