Reply With QuoteCan't comment on the cars etc but I use a litre of ad blue every 800-1000 miles , it's a pain if the light comes on giving you a range of X but it's generally 1k miles
Well, I sold the RS6 a couple of months ago now and I’m struggling to find a car within budget that can compare with the performance so I’m toying with the idea of going for a big comfy diesel.
Ive seen a few nice Range Rover Sports, namely the revised 306bhp Autobiography but have a couple of queries -
Diesel - with all these new regs are they going to fall in price massively over the next couple of years?
Ad Blue - WTF is this? I know it’s another liquid you put in to keep emissions down but do the cars use a lot of it?
Model change - The new Range Rover Sport has just been released and by the looks of things has already had a knock on effect on the residuals of the current “look”, again is it a bad time to buy one?
I don’t like the look of any other diesels (in my budget anyway) and have had a Cayenne so don’t want to go back there.
Appreciate any info as I’ve never owned an oil burner before!
Cheers
Can't comment on the cars etc but I use a litre of ad blue every 800-1000 miles , it's a pain if the light comes on giving you a range of X but it's generally 1k miles
I don’t think there is going to be much backlash on diesel before they hit both petrol and diesel, for taxes! Or to try and replace them.
It's just a matter of time...
No more than petrol. Both fuel's days are numbered and manufactures are still pushing both. Land Rover are still committed to diesel too.Originally Posted by gilford
A large percentage of new cars on the road are now owned by the banks, on either lease deals or financed with guaranteed future values - so the financial industry is in no rush to see their assets plummet in value.
As we see from the news today, dealers are sitting on a lot of unsold cars as the economy starts to tank - if you have the cash some good deals will pop up next year.
The current model RRS has been out since 63 plate and only very recently have secondhand values dipped. 8-12 months ago you'd have been hard pushed to find one under 40K
With a full tank of ad-blue it'll generally last you until service assuming it was filled at the same time. Some people get through a tank in 10k some get over 16.
Given your previous cars an X5 5.0D may suit?
Quite powerful and a tauter ride may tick some boxes?
On ad blu there is usually plenty of time to refil from when the light comes on so should not be a problem. I do not live that far from the dealer and they fill it up for free.
However if you fully run out my understanding is that the car will simply not start !
I run a Merc 350 diesel and have no idea what the Ad Blue is. Is it something specific to RR.
Personally I have no intention on replacing my Diesel for many years to come, but then I don't live in London. Thank god.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Ad blue helps reduce emissions in the latest Diesel engines. All Euro 6 diesels use it these days.
http://www.yara.co.uk/nox-reduction/...hat-is-adblue/
That's not correct. My XC60 D4 doesn't.
Current BMW diesels don't need Ad blue to comply with euro 6. At least not the ones I have driven.
Ok, not all then, but a lot of modern diesels use it.
its a product based on urea, it does mark paint allegedly so put it in carefully , about £10 for a 10lt container
Personally, I would not invest in a brand new Diesel these days. Despite the fact that they are a lot cleaner than before, the hybrid/electric movement gets so strong and technology is making big steps. Within 5 yrs or so, resale prices of second hand Diesels will be influenced by tons of cars with more modern technology. Leaseplan, one of Europe's biggest car lease companies has adopted a strategy (lease price...) to discourage clients to order a diesel powered car in favour of a hybrid/electric car.
Menno
I disagree and feel it is hybrids which will be the white elephants before too long. They have lots of heavy redundant tech they drag about with big bills down the road if it goes wrong. They are to my mind merely a stepping stone to full electric which is clearly the long term solution and don't really offer much over the simpler existing solutions other than modes to artificially defeat emissions and economy tests.
Last edited by Padders; 24th October 2017 at 07:59.
Took my wife’s Mercedes GLC for it first service yesterday, and it was topped up with adblue. Apparently the tank can cover 12k miles before needed to be refilled.
What about SQ5? 300bhp diesel V6T that is tuned to have a V8 petrol like sound - quick, comfy and very reliable.
They do like the Ad blue though, probably 1ltr per 1000 miles or there abouts (Which is actually pig piss btw).
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OP, I have the car you're considering: Range Rover Sport Autobiography 3.0 diesel SDV6 306BHP. The prices have taken a hit recently, especially due to the 2018 facelift (only cosmetic, new lights but it has the same engine, gearbox etc.) coming along. I am not a fan of buying new due to depreciation but when I was looking, 1 year old cars with 10k miles on the clock were selling at the same price as new because people weren't patient enough to wait 6 months+ for a new car to be built. So ordering a new one made sense to me given the situation.
If you're considering a used or registered but brand new car from stock, there must be good deals available due to the facelift. The price has gone up too with the facelift ... I used the online configurator and like for like spec is £10k+ more than it was 2 years ago.
Mine has never needed ad blue top up between the 2 annual services it has had. This is despite either driving in stop/start traffic or doing really long high speed journeys when not driving in London so both extremes that use more fuel/create more pollution and *should* make use of ad blue to compensate. My top ups are free as I have the service plan so even if it required ad blue before service, I could just take it to the dealer and they would do it for me.
If you go for second hand, try to get one from 1st September 2015 onwards (mine is). They are Euro 6b compliant (hence adblue) so will not be affected by the London ULEZ coming in September 2020. Even if you're not in London, pre Sep '15 diesel cars may depreciate more due to non-compliance with the ULEZ.
If you don't have experience of LR dealers, I suggest checking reviews of your local dealership before buying. Most are incompetent and have poor aftersales customer service. You may be lucky if you are near a good one.
Autumn/winter is generally considered a good time to sell/bad time to buy a second hand SUV/4x4 as prices allegedly go up a little in anticipation of bad weather.
SQ7 or petrol SQ5?
Personally I'd go back to the RS6...nothing compares!
Regarding AdBlu... I have a leased Audi A6 3.0 Tdi Quattro (272bhp and a cracking car, by the way). It's about 11 months old, I have just under 8000 miles on the clock and the AdBlu warning came up about 500 miles ago. It took 18 quids-worth to fill it up (albeit at Audi prices).
Oh, and JP28 is quite right - if you ignore the warnings and keep going until the mileage it says you have to have filled up by, the entire engine management system shuts down and leaves you with a dead motor!
Simon
I'd go SQ5 - the SQ7 is enormous...
Simon
Diesel SQ5, although suspect the new petrol version will be "rapid" but thirsty too
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Not so sure. Purely EV, in the event of massive public take up will require huge investment in generation and transmission equipment throughout the UK. Hybrids don't need the same infrastructure investment.
How the govt will manage all this is a mystery - especially given the public catching onto what smart electricity meters are actually about...
Nor does mx XC60 D5. Seems like a pain to have to add something as well as fuel. Last time I did that was with 2 stroke oil in my first Vespa!!
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my adblue tank is 10 litre iirc and yes the do go into limp mode / shut down if you dont heed the warning . i was wary of it at first but its not an issue really
And the Adblue system is one of the reasons that Mercedes (others may be the same) are one of the few manufacturers where the emissions are basically as advertised. Others - Nissan are particularly bad - are waaaaaay worse than the test results
We have BMW X5 4.0d’s at work and they need it.
Why isn't Adblue added to the fuel or would it adversely affect older diesels?
Or could be an 'Adblue pump'?
It doesn't go into the engine, adblue is injected into the exhaust, it reacts with the NOX so reducing their emmissions. It's why VW fibbed over their NOX emission figues, to avoid fitting adblue to vehicles that in fact needed it. So putting pee in your fuel tank is probably not a good idea
In July 2016 we bought a 3 yr old Mercedes ML250 Bluemotion, to replace an elderly V70 D5.
We love it, an ideal combination of power and economy - we average 42 mpg, 48mpg on a run.
Wifey and i both ride motorcycles, so we did not crave a performance car.
The Bluemotion logo indicates that the vehicle needs adblue.
There is a small red filling port behind the fuel flap, next to the diesel filler.
It uses approximately 1litre of adblue per 1000 miles, and is widely available in 10litre drums with the dedicated swan neck to fit the adblue filling port - we pay around £8 for a 10litre drum.
Last edited by W124; 24th October 2017 at 10:23.
What happens if you run out mid journey or whatever?
Last week I took delivery of a new SLC250d. Handing the car over the salesman pointed out the Adblu filler in the boot. He said with your sort of mileage ( 4/5K per year) forget it, topping up is taken care of during routine service.
In theory, nothing would happen, the engine would run just fine, it would just pump out higher levels of NOx. In reality, the car manufacturers put engine management software in that would limit the engines power if you run out mid journey, to keep NOx levels below regulation, or if not mid journey, disable the car from starting. With such low consumption levels, you get plenty of warning that you're getting low, probably weeks, so shouldn't run out
The adblue tank has a level sensor, the EMS warns you to fill up with 1000 miles to go.
I keep mine brimmed to avoid the ripoff charge per litre from my friendly Merc dealer at service time !
Ok, thanks!
Many thanks for all the info chaps, lots to digest!
Thanks for your reply, you are exactly the person I was looking for!
I've seen a few nice 2016 AB's for under £60k which is £5k less than they were a few months ago but what worries me is the CAP/Trade/WBAC valuations as they are "usually" a good guide. For instance, I enquired about a 2017 car up at £69999 but trade is over £15k less so with even the JLR site quoting £54k trade in! The last thing I want to do is spend £60k on a car and lose over £10k in 12 months (I don't keep cars long), I can take depreciation but not that much!
My advice would be to do more research. Gather as much info as you can about the differences between the latest model and 2016/2017 cars (you probably already know more than most JLR salesmen but the more knowledge you have the better). Then go in prepared and haggle hard based on the differences. Doesn't have to be just about bringing the sale price down but also things like getting a service plan and/or accessories for free. The model is mature enough for them to discount, which wasn't the case when I bought mine so ended up going for new factory order. I bought my previous 2 RRSs used, at very good prices to begin with and got good part-exchange prices for them when moving on so it didn't hurt much. I will not be so lucky when I sell this one
According to many press reports, sales of diesel cars is dropping more than petrol cars, in spite of being supported by Corporate Fleet sales which choose diesel for better fuel consumption and hence lower running costs on high mileage cars.
What is more significant is that the resale value of diesels is dropping more dramatically as people begin to fear future legislation.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...ce-start-2017/
Bought a new 4 series 430d at the weekend. It's Euro 6 and doesn't require adblu
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Although I am now out of diesels, (currently 650i Gran Coupe and Golf R for my wife) the X5 50d shifts like stink and is extremely well put together.
Go test....
Good luck Marcus, let's know how you get on !
Cheers, Peter
p.s. if not high'ish annual mileage, stick a bottle of Redex in every 4-6 months to clear out the diesel gunge.... you'll notice the difference :-)
Last edited by ingenioren; 24th October 2017 at 14:23.
Having lived with electric, diesel and hybrid cars I'd say each is outstanding in their own specific area.
Electric if you are doing restricted miles, have the facility for home charging and / or it's a second car (or you can afford a Tesla). This is set to change in the next year or two with 200+ mile real world range vehicles becoming far more affordable.
Diesel if you are staying out of cities and towns and doing large mileages on motorways. There are reliability issues over very high output diesels however, and don;t even think of using one as a city runabout.
Hybrid makes the most sense now for mixed driving, the economy improvements on long journeys aren't as impressive as diesel but if you adapt your driving style to them there are marked improvements over petrol only engines and in the class of car I drive the hybrid options are on a par economy and performance wise to their German diesel counterparts.
Petrol is becoming a performance niche product, not a bad thing and I can only see this continuing until we start seeing hybrid sports cars.
In the end though while buying a car probably should be a logical process it is most often an emotional one, personally I'm not that taken by range rovers but if that's what floats your boat and makes you happy then go for it. It does sound though like the OP should just buy another RS6 and be done with it.
I've got a rule where I never buy the same car twice! The RS6 was a great car and I'm glad to say I've owned one but onwards and upwards!
I have actually looked at Tesla's and quite like them, especially with "ludicrous" mode, but being located where I am it's hard to get to see one in the flesh. I suppose I could charge it here in the factory which would be a bonus!
I have a friend in the states with a Tesla Model S, he's put 110,000 miles on it and is still on the first set of brakes. The fact it will monster pretty much any car out there up to legal speeds and (a bit) beyond while costing a fraction of what a similar performing car does to run appeals to me. If the infrastructure fits your life then I'd certainly urge you to make the effort to try one.
We had a leaf for a couple of years as a second car and found it perfectly usable for a good 80% of our driving - but I work from home so no large commutes and we had a diesel for holidays and longer journeys.
We'll probably replace the diesel with another electric car and have the hybrid for distance driving.
Interesting to read that this tendency towards hybrid/electric is also going on in the UK! I mentioned the same thing on the Continent in posting #15
Rumours that diesels will be targeted in the forthcoming budget . As a private buyer there’s no way I’d consider one.
For a Government hanging on by its fingernails, that would be a staggeringly stupid thing to do. On that basis, I can see it happening.
I hope you are right. The rumour is that new diesels may attract additional VED, of course there may also be an additional sales tax imposed on them (maybe similar to the luxury vehicle sales tax on cars over £40k). This being on the cleanest diesel yet produced, albeit using measures which bear no relation to what they actually produce. Alternatively, the Chancellor may increase diesel fuel duty, but that would hit hauliers/bus companies etc, who would pass it onto the customer which would prove unpopular with voters already feeling squeezed.
If we look to the future, assuming electric cars finally become the mainstream and charging points etc become abundant, the Government of the day are left with the small problem of how to fill the shortfall in tax revenue from motor fuel. at the moment it's a lot of money and that will have to be raised by other means which will no doubt prove to be unpopular. I`ll probably be pushing up daisies by the time we reach this situation but I'm intrigued to know the answer. Taxing electricity isn`t a viable option, so how will they do it?
In the short term, if diesel car sales do start to plummet some of the manufacturers are going to be wrong-footed and lose sales. Jaguar springs to mind, their latest petrol offerings look better (on paper) than previous but they're still heavily committed to diesel cars. Not sure how far down the hybrid path they are, or whether hybrids are even on the agenda, but in the short-medium term I can see a big increase in demand for hybrids. Ironically, those with long memories will remember how Jaguar were very slow to develop diesels when the market swung that way.....will history repeat itself?
As for PCP deals and future values, a fall in second-hand prices for diesels will spell bad news for the finance companies or whoever's putting the money up. Uncertainty about future values will surely push the price of PCP deals upwards, I struggle to see how manufacturers are making much profit at the current prices so to me the only way is up.
Spare a thought for the manufacturers; carrying out a coherent development programme whilst demand for engine types is being dictated by the whims of governments must be a headache. It's like navigating towards a moving destination, they have my sympathies. On the other hand, without pressure from Governments and the introduction of emission standards (which began in the 70s) god knows where we'd be! Manufacturers have been forced to develop cleaner more efficient cars and the results have been astounding. Anyone who's old enough to remember cars from the mid-70s will attest to the huge progress that's been made. Cars from that era were very good at turning fuel into heat, but not so good at turning fuel into automotive power......but at least they were fairly easy to mend!
Paul
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 10th November 2017 at 17:24.
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