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Thread: 50-year old Explorer: service or sell?

  1. #1
    Master
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    50-year old Explorer: service or sell?

    The best piece in my small stash of watches is a Rolex Explorer 1016, from 1967, which I bought about four years ago. The dial and hands have aged gracefully and it has puffy lume that still glows, briefly and faintly.

    The watch needs a service. Here's my dilemma.

    I've just received the quotation back from RSC St James (actually West Malling, as they handle the vintage pieces). They've noted all my requests to not change the plexi, dial or hands. But they have put in a couple of caveats:

    "Due to the deteriorated condition of the dial and hands, we can give no guarantee to their removal or refit.

    Original deteriorated dial refitted at customer's own risk; we can give no guarantee to the longevity of this component."

    And they will change the crown too.

    I don't know how I feel about the crown change, I wasn't expecting that. I did expect they would cover themselves against the possibility of dial/hand damage. Fair enough, the watch is 50 years old.

    I know that I'd be devastated if the lume or hands were damaged during the service. I have no idea how big is the risk that damage might occur.

    I know that a few of you have put vintage watches in to service with Omega or Rolex in the past and suffered dial damage.

    So my options are:
    1. Sell; I have a good offer from the dealer who supplied the watch to me.
    2. Take the risk with RSC.
    3. Find an independent who might be willing to service the watch and perhaps to retain the crown--though I have no idea whether going down that route would make it more or less likely that the dial/hands might be damaged during service.

    I'd be grateful for opinions on this. In my position, what would you do?

  2. #2
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Options 1 and 3 - definitely not option 2, Rolex will destroy it.

    It depends on if you want to keep it, if you do find a good independent, otherwise accept the dealers offer.

  3. #3
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    Options 1 and 3 - definitely not option 2, Rolex will destroy it.

    It depends on if you want to keep it, if you do find a good independent, otherwise accept the dealers offer.
    What he said (I wouldn't hesitate for a minute and go for option 3).

  4. #4
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    Hi OP.

    If you decide to sell then perhaps you could put it in sales corner. One of the forum members might be interested in buying it.

  5. #5
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    1) option 3
    2) option 1
    3) walk round town with a nail in your shoe
    ...



    28) eat your own knees
    29) option 2

  6. #6
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    I would doubt anybody could guarantee they wouldn’t have to change anything before they start stripping it down. Bill Rice serviced my 50 year old sub and did a fantastic job but had to replace the crown even though he tried to save it, you pays your money and takes your chance effectively.

  7. #7
    Master
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    I’d probably sell up to be honest but I’m cautious about things like this.

    If it were me I’d be gutted if the dial / hands / crown were damaged and replaced – you’d be unhappy with the watch and out of pocket and less likely to sell it on to the type of person who was considering a 50 year watch.

  8. #8
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    If you dont want it any more - option 1.

    if you do want to keep it - option 3.

    Regarding the crown, of its a triple lock then it's already been replaced. If it's a double lock and still works - leave it, but don't take the watch swimming unless it's been pressure checked. Ditto the crystal.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  9. #9

    50-year old Explorer: service or sell?

    Quote Originally Posted by MakeColdplayHistory View Post
    1) option 3
    2) option 1
    3) walk round town with a nail in your shoe
    ...



    28) eat your own knees
    29) option 2
    This = genius
    Maybe we should have a competition to fill options 4 through 27!


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  10. #10
    A watch of this age, value and surely delicacy due to the ageing of the dial and lume etc. may be best sold off if the risk during service and indeed wearing are too great?

  11. #11
    Master
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    I'd talk to Duncan at Genesis Watchmaking.He's very clear on exactly what can be done.

  12. #12
    Master
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    Thanks for the replies, especially #5

    I'm inclined to take Option 2 off the table, unless anyone has anything positive to say about RSC for older watches. (Doesn't Austin Kaye use them?)

    If anyone can suggest an independent I'd be additionally grateful. Bill Rice is in Yorkshire isn't he?


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  13. #13
    Master raysablade's Avatar
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    If you are getting it serviced to turn it into an everyday watch, i doubt that there is an sensible option.

    The downside of the recent Rolex price rises is that the best place for your watch is usually in a safe, doubly so given the age and condition of this one. The Rolex quote turns it back into a usable watch the independent route will mean it remains a delicate luxury.

    I'd put it in the safe unserviced and spend the service cost on PRS-29a. My son was wearing his last weekend, it looked every inch the modern/vintage classic the Explorer should be.
    Last edited by raysablade; 20th October 2017 at 17:19.

  14. #14
    Craftsman
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    I would definitely recommend Brendan (Webwatchmaker) of this parish.

  15. #15
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    I would just sell it unless you want to keep it of course but I would not go through that trouble if I didnt really like the watch itself.

  16. #16
    Master
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    Damage when lifting hands and dial separation from the case can happen, often loss of the minutes edge markers and I would think Rolex are highlighting the possibility in advance, are the hands in particulary bad condition ? Neither Duncan at Genesis or Brendan would be able say 100% no damage would occur either although I would agree that they would do there utmost to avoid it as they would always do. Perhaps I am being overly optimistic but I suspect it would be ok at Rolex, I had a similar age GMT done at RSC a few years ago and all was well. I do think that the frequent cries of RSC will ruin this or that are not backed up by much in the way of evidence, unless anyone knows any different ?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluetinfloor View Post
    Damage when lifting hands and dial separation from the case can happen, often loss of the minutes edge markers and I would think Rolex are highlighting the possibility in advance, are the hands in particulary bad condition ? Neither Duncan at Genesis or Brendan would be able say 100% no damage would occur either although I would agree that they would do there utmost to avoid it as they would always do. Perhaps I am being overly optimistic but I suspect it would be ok at Rolex, I had a similar age GMT done at RSC a few years ago and all was well. I do think that the frequent cries of RSC will ruin this or that are not backed up by much in the way of evidence, unless anyone knows any different ?
    Based on their recent attempts to regulate my Datejust, which resulted in a refund for the watch from my AD, I wouldn't trust them to replace a battery in an old Casio F91W let alone this classic. Sorry just my £0.02.


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  18. #18
    Apprentice
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    you can't go wrong with RSC.

  19. #19
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    What this thread needs as a picture of the beauty

  20. #20
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by afnios View Post
    you can't go wrong with RSC.
    Of course you can with a vintage watch. Rolex will aim to have the watch looking and working like new when they have finished with it and it sounds like they were already looking to rip the dial, hands and crown out and replace them with modern service parts which would completely destroy the value and the appearance of the Watch.

    I would agree with you if it was a 5 to 10 year old watch, but Rolex have history of trashing vintage watches.

  21. #21
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raysablade View Post
    If you are getting it serviced to turn it into an everyday watch, i doubt that there is an sensible option.

    The downside of the recent Rolex price rises is that the best place for your watch is usually in a safe, doubly so given the age and condition of this one. The Rolex quote turns it back into a usable watch the independent route will mean it remains a delicate luxury.

    I'd put it in the safe unserviced and spend the service cost on PRS-29a. My son was wearing his last weekend, it looked every inch the modern/vintage classic the Explorer should be.

    Sorry, i don't subscribe to this. Last week I was wearing my 1665 Rail (from 78), this week I am wearing my 67 5513 complete with puffy lume. Next week I shall be wearing my 16750 GMT (79).

    My old Rolex's are not safe queens and should be enjoyed. A view shared by many people.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  22. #22
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    Of course you can with a vintage watch. Rolex will aim to have the watch looking and working like new when they have finished with it and it sounds like they were already looking to rip the dial, hands and crown out and replace them with modern service parts which would completely destroy the value and the appearance of the Watch.

    I would agree with you if it was a 5 to 10 year old watch, but Rolex have history of trashing vintage watches.
    Whats the history of trashing vintage watches ? A little revisionist I would suggest, Sure watches at 10 years old would get dial and hand replacement recommended and if this in 1975 it meant the replacement of a 1965 gilt dial with a matte dial, same in 1980' s, matte dials were replaced with white gold surround. That was before value was given to the vintage dials and and hands, inserts etc and at the time everyone was happy with the "upgrade". There is an argument that Rolex have been instrumental in creating value in the remaining original pieces, otherwise there would be loads around. The vintage service dept will not replace original elements if you ask them to retain them and this has been the case for at least 10 years.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Sorry, i don't subscribe to this. Last week I was wearing my 1665 Rail (from 78), this week I am wearing my 67 5513 complete with puffy lume. Next week I shall be wearing my 16750 GMT (79).

    My old Rolex's are not safe queens and should be enjoyed. A view shared by many people.
    Yep +1

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluetinfloor View Post
    Whats the history of trashing vintage watches ? A little revisionist I would suggest, Sure watches at 10 years old would get dial and hand replacement recommended and if this in 1975 it meant the replacement of a 1965 gilt dial with a matte dial, same in 1980' s, matte dials were replaced with white gold surround. That was before value was given to the vintage dials and and hands, inserts etc and at the time everyone was happy with the "upgrade". There is an argument that Rolex have been instrumental in creating value in the remaining original pieces, otherwise there would be loads around. The vintage service dept will not replace original elements if you ask them to retain them and this has been the case for at least 10 years.
    Yes. I think Rolex have become a little bit more "sensitive" to customer requests when it comes to vintage bits these days. So long as requests are made clear at the outset.

    I wouldn't sell it.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfish View Post
    What this thread needs as a picture of the beauty
    Ok, here goes & apologies for my less-than-stellar photography






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  26. #26
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    Yes. I think Rolex have become a little bit more "sensitive" to customer requests when it comes to vintage bits these days. So long as requests are made clear at the outset.

    I wouldn't sell it.
    But would you go down the RSC route or seek out an independent, Verv?


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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by devonpete View Post
    I would definitely recommend Brendan (Webwatchmaker) of this parish.
    Seconded. Brendan’s just serviced three of mine and did precisely what I wanted. Two of the three are circa 50 years old and I was keen to maintain absolute originality re hands, dial etc. I’ve had less than stellar experiences with RSC and wouldn’t send any of my watches there again.

  28. #28
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickRed71 View Post
    But would you go down the RSC route or seek out an independent, Verv?


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    It's a difficult one to answer.
    I've never used an independent but more people swear by them than ive heard backing the mothership.

    If you were to use one then I think they'd need to be Rolex accredited and have access to parts and service kits. Non accredited = nope.

  29. #29
    Master
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    I had similar dilemma with my DRSD. Ended up taking it to Stephen Hale (after leaving it with Rolex St James). Great job, dial and hands left unmolested. New crown, but old one given back.


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  30. #30
    Grand Master
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    Looking at those pics I would say it's been relumed at some stage in its life!

    Just my my opinion of course.

  31. #31
    Master
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    Looking at that watch, all appears to be in pretty sound condition, Duncan at Genesis would be a good option as would, dare I suggest, RSC.

    However if you want to avoid unevidenced risk of RSC vintage watch destruction speak to Duncan, serviced many watches of mine over last 15 years and as good as you will get.

    Many more of my watches have had Duncan's attention than RSC, However in the context of this thread I just don't accept that RSC currently are vintage watch wreckers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ben4watches View Post
    Looking at those pics I would say it's been relumed at some stage in its life!

    Just my my opinion of course.
    it hasn't

  32. #32
    Master
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    The statements that Rolex quote are very similar if not the same as they have been doing for years .

    I still have quotes from when I had my red sub serviced along with a 1675 Radial dial and a 5513 , imagine how the likes of Milton Jed and MW go on with Comex PN and the like .

    RSC is the way to go with specific instructions of your request for no polishing etc , you might even get the crown and plexy returned ( i I did but that was a good while ago ) and I know how things have changed .

    I've no doubt Duncan is excellent at what he does but the RSC Service card is worth it's weight in gold when it comes to a vintage piece and there is very little difference in terms of cost .

    Get it RSC Serviced and enjoy the watch for many years to come .

    The watch looks a lovely piece , finding another would be very costly and a mission .

  33. #33
    Master
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    Thanks to everyone who replied, and to the couple of people who sent PMs offering their perspective.

    My hesitation about RSC is that I cannot speak directly to the person who wrote up the quotation or would service the watch. I'd like to deal f2f in this instance. So I'll get the opinion of an independent before deciding. Steven Hale is within striking distance of my workplace, so I'll probably give them a try before getting on a train to Torquay or Carlisle.

    I'll report back.

  34. #34
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    To add to the existing suggestions of independents, I'd also recommend Brendan (webwatchmaker) from this forum, who recently worked on my old Zenith Defy.

    I had a 6239 Daytona serviced by Stephen Hale, last year, and it was a lovely job, at a very reasonable price.

    SH also replaced a panda dial for me on another Daytona, as they have a Rolex parts account.


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  35. #35
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    If you dont want it any more - option 1.

    if you do want to keep it - option 3.

    Regarding the crown, of its a triple lock then it's already been replaced. If it's a double lock and still works - leave it, but don't take the watch swimming unless it's been pressure checked. Ditto the crystal.
    Flawed advice IMO.

    I agree with the triple lock statement but not the rest. The original crown could have ZERO water resistance if the seals are perished, it's not a question of 'just avoiding swimming', a splash whilst washing hands could let water in if the seals have really gone. I check the state of the rubber on crowns regardless of what the pressure test tells me, it's irresponsible to give a waterproof watch back to the owner without doing what's sensible to keep it waterproof.

    Frankly, I`m surprised at the OP's sense of quandry. Lume on old watches does get crumbly and it's all too easy for it to fall off when a dial or hand is removed. No matter how carefully it's done this can happen and the folks who buy these watches, paying a premium for originality, should be aware of what they're getting into. Rolex didn`t replace dials and hands for the fun of it, although they have been guilty of being over-cautious in the past. No repairer will guarantee that the lume won`t crumble to some extent when the dial and hands get disturbed.

    My advice is to let a Rolex accredited indy service the watch, on the basis that he'll do his best.

    The whole originality thing, particularly with vintage Rolex, has got silly in my opinion; people need to be realistic about these things. The problem is fuelled by the prices attached to originality........you're investing in flaky lume that's ready for falling off and that's not wise when you think about it.


    Paul
    Last edited by walkerwek1958; 21st October 2017 at 19:22.

  36. #36
    Master
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    Dare I asl the question, how much is this worth, or the going rate?

  37. #37
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    definitely don't sell it! i'd try a trust independent myself.

  38. #38
    Master
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    Apologies if this is a slight tangent but I heard that Stephen Hale was no longer at SHWR - anyone had any deallngs with them recently to confirm or deny that?

    I'd be keeping the Explorer unless I 'had' to sell.

  39. #39
    Master
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    Stephen Hale was still there in May. Spoke to him.....


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  40. #40
    Master
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    Thanks, I was informed in April he'd sold up so maybe wrong or he was continuing on through a handover period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete D View Post
    Stephen Hale was still there in May. Spoke to him.....


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  41. #41
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    SHWR moved premises earlier this year, and I know there were initially terrible problems with their phone lines etc.


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  42. #42
    Master
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    Hello everyone.

    Update: I've decided to get it serviced by Rolex in West Malling. I've spoken to a few dealers, all of whom have used them for vintage pieces without any damage.

    Thanks again for all your views.

  43. #43
    Master
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    Trust all goes well and keep us updated 👍🏻

  44. #44
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.f View Post
    Trust all goes well and keep us updated 
    +1, selling it would be like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

  45. #45
    Master
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    Back today from RSC at King's Hill, serviced and with all the lume intact.

    Thanks to everyone for responding to the thread.


  46. #46
    Master
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    Wow! Fabulous result. You must be chuffed!


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  47. #47
    Grand Master
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    Lovely stuff nick.

  48. #48
    Master
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    Very nice indeed you made the right decision.

  49. #49
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Well done, looks stunning. I hold my hands up and admit that in this case I got it wrong. I was one of those strongly advising not to send a vintage watch back to Rolex, but they have done you proud

  50. #50
    Master
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    Good result Nick pleased it all worked out.

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