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Thread: Speedy Tuesday disappointment?

  1. #51
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    I am sure there are examples of plain profiteering, but the impression that I get is that most people who did so signed up because they liked the look of the ST Limited Edition. And it does looks good, reverse panda is a good look.
    Let's face it, there are more Omega LEs than you can shake a stick at, so when commitment to an orer had to be made, there was no guarantee whatsoever that this would trade at a premium. (Speedmaster Solar Impulse prices, anyone??)
    So people signed up and waited.

    Roll on to ST delivery time.

    I asked myself this - If someone told me that (for almost any) watch I had ordered but not worn or even received, that someone would pay me £2k not to collect it, I would take the £2k. Almost every time.
    That is not profiteering.
    It is a simple statement that I cannot pass by an opportunity for a free £2k.

    If someone offered any one of us a free £50k, we would almost all take the money.
    If someone offerd us a free £50, none of us would, we would own the watch.
    The only difference is the size of the number, and we would all (if we were honest) be able to point to a number that would make the difference. Below this, collect the watch. Above that, collect the free money.
    EVERY one of us, all that changes is the sum of money that makes that decision.

    I love my watch collection, but £2k still goes a long way.
    So I am not suprised many STs are being passed on. In simple watch terms it is the equivalent of getting a free (used) Tudor Black Bay or similar.
    In these terms, the watch enthusiast can easily justify shifting on the ST on the basis that he gets another (decent) watch he wants, free gratis and for nothing.

    I think people here get far too hot under the collar about "trading".

    I sold a watch recently that I never intended to sell.
    A potential buyer (whom I had refused to sell this watch to before) asked my advice on another example of the same watch I had. I gave him honest comments (based on photos, not an advert) and told him that whether it was a good deal all depended on what price was being asked for the watch.
    He told me, and I realised he was intending to pay more than 4 times what my watch cost me for an inferior example. So I told him that if he was willing to pay that, he could buy mine instead, and own a better example as a result.
    Which he did. He is delighted, I am pleased too. I miss the watch, but not overly.
    I do not feel the slightest bit guilty, but I made quite a large profit on it.
    I have merely been lucky in owning something that was quietly appreciating.
    I have no doubt it will appreciate more, and the buyer will also make a profit
    Watches do not do that all the time, so I am happy when they do. A little over a long time, or a lot over a few months, all that changes is the scale. The principal remains the same.

    Dave

  2. #52
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    That is not profiteering.
    Going ahead with the purchase of a limited edition that is known to be desirable, but which you now have no interest in owning, reduces the supply of the watches available at MRSP, and thus puts upward pressure on the price. This *is* profiteering.

    Whether it at all matters that the people purchasing this totally unnecessary luxury item are paying an extra two grand on top of the MRSP four grand is another matter. Perhaps foolish desires almost deserve to be exploited? And in any case, there's no reason to predict that the price will collapse in the few next years, no reason to think that owners won't be able to get their money back.

    I wonder how many people who are justifying their profiteering to themselves through moral rationalisation will continued to keep their consciences squeaky clean by taking the equally virtuous step of declaring the profit made on their dealing in their tax return?

  3. #53
    Not sure what all the fuss is about - buyers who missed out on this limited edition Speedmaster will not have to wait long, I am sure Omega have the next Limted Edition Speedmaster in the pipeline.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Der Amf View Post
    I wonder how many people who are justifying their profiteering to themselves through moral rationalisation will continued to keep their consciences squeaky clean by taking the equally virtuous step of declaring the profit made on their dealing in their tax return?
    Under UK tax law, capital gains on some items do not have to be declared - watches are one of these items.
    You therefore do not have to declare them on your tax return(provided you are not a trader)

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Amf View Post
    Going ahead with the purchase of a limited edition that is known to be desirable, but which you now have no interest in owning, reduces the supply of the watches available at MRSP, and thus puts upward pressure on the price. This *is* profiteering.

    Whether it at all matters that the people purchasing this totally unnecessary luxury item are paying an extra two grand on top of the MRSP four grand is another matter. Perhaps foolish desires almost deserve to be exploited? And in any case, there's no reason to predict that the price will collapse in the few next years, no reason to think that owners won't be able to get their money back.

    I wonder how many people who are justifying their profiteering to themselves through moral rationalisation will continued to keep their consciences squeaky clean by taking the equally virtuous step of declaring the profit made on their dealing in their tax return?
    HMRC mentions jewellery and antiques. Depends if you view a Watch as jewellery ?
    Not sure capital gain applies , potentially gifting a Watch could be a PET. I’ll let the tax experts educate me:)

  6. #56
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    I ordered one. The whole process was painless and fault free. It arrived. I didn't like it enough to keep it over my standard Speedmaster Pro. I sold it for the market value, which happily let me buy a watch I couldn't afford previously.

    I don't buy this "only buy watches you have seen" take. This is a watch forum and SC commonly sees sales of Girard Perregaux, Glashutte Original, out of production vintage pieces etc etc based on photos that can be manipulated in many ways to show things in their best light. I'd wager that most of the buyers haven't tried them on their wrist first. Certainly I've bought items I have no idea of what they're like in the flesh.

    I'm sure anyone with both the ST and an orignal Speedmaster can confirm that they are different beasts. I loved the applied logo and the crown but the brushed case put me off and the dial didn't appeal enough. The strap was abysmal for the cost of the package - a £35 Hirsch Ranger is better quality - but I was prepared to overlook that.

    If I don't like a watch I'll sell it for what its worth. Most of the time that means losing a little money along the way. If it means making a little instead I'm not complaining.
    Last edited by Scepticalist; 19th October 2017 at 08:42.

  7. #57
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    For the same price as this hashtag watch you can buy a proper vintage moon with history. Hummmm

    Sent from my Moto C Plus using Tapatalk

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark lowman View Post
    HMRC mentions jewellery and antiques. Depends if you view a Watch as jewellery ?
    Not sure capital gain applies , potentially gifting a Watch could be a PET. I’ll let the tax experts educate me:)
    I'm pretty sure any gains anyone was lucky enough to make on this watch can be easily offset with many losses on other watches. Or does it not work like that?

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  9. #59
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ac11111 View Post
    For the same price as this hashtag watch you can buy a proper vintage moon with history. Hummmm

    Sent from my Moto C Plus using Tapatalk
    That may be true. It’s not particularly pertinent to those who don’t want vintage, though (which is just as valid a purchasing decision).

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark lowman View Post
    HMRC mentions jewellery and antiques. Depends if you view a Watch as jewellery ?
    Not sure capital gain applies , potentially gifting a Watch could be a PET. I’ll let the tax experts educate me:)
    Mechanical watches are classed as ‘Possessions with limited lifespan’ (less then 50years) so exempt as long as you are not a trader.

    Obviously the argument could be made they can last longer the 50years but the chances of this without service intervention is unlikely.

  11. #61
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Amf View Post
    Going ahead with the purchase of a limited edition that is known to be desirable, but which you now have no interest in owning, reduces the supply of the watches available at MRSP, and thus puts upward pressure on the price. This *is* profiteering.
    I strongly disagree.
    You put your name on the waiting list for watch in good faith
    You want the watch
    However, when the call comes to say it has arrived, you realise that without touching it you can go home £2k richer.
    You take the £2k, simply because if you don't, someone else will.
    This is not profiteering (which is used here as an intentionally perjorative word).
    Especially, as has happened here a few times, you accept less (say, £1.5k) to sell in the forum than you could in the open market. Then 2 people benefit.
    All you are doing is acknowledging that the market has handed you an opportunity.

    I absolutely seee nothing wrong with this. Personally, I think that suggesting that you leave it at the AD for some other person to profit by (as you seem to) is unusually naive.

    Dave

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    the impression that I get is that most people who did so signed up because they liked the look of the ST Limited Edition. And it does looks good, reverse panda is a good look.
    Let's face it, there are more Omega LEs than you can shake a stick at, so when commitment to an orer had to be made, there was no guarantee whatsoever that this would trade at a premium. (Speedmaster Solar Impulse prices, anyone??)
    So people signed up and waited.

    Roll on to ST delivery time.

    I asked myself this - If someone told me that (for almost any) watch I had ordered but not worn or even received, that someone would pay me £2k not to collect it, I would take the £2k. Almost every time.
    That is not profiteering.
    It is a simple statement that I cannot pass by an opportunity for a free £2k.

    If someone offered any one of us a free £50k, we would almost all take the money.
    If someone offerd us a free £50, none of us would, we would own the watch.
    The only difference is the size of the number, and we would all (if we were honest) be able to point to a number that would make the difference. Below this, collect the watch. Above that, collect the free money.
    EVERY one of us, all that changes is the sum of money that makes that decision.

    I love my watch collection, but £2k still goes a long way.
    So I am not suprised many STs are being passed on. In simple watch terms it is the equivalent of getting a free (used) Tudor Black Bay or similar.
    In these terms, the watch enthusiast can easily justify shifting on the ST on the basis that he gets another (decent) watch he wants, free gratis and for nothing.

    I think people here get far too hot under the collar about "trading".
    Spot on.

    It is only people who missed out on the RRP who are getting hot under the collar. If the secondary market price had tanked to below RRP, it is guaranteed that not a single one of them would complain. Make no mistake - this issue has nothing to do with whether they are a ‘Speedie lover who missed out’ false tears or accusations of ‘not in the spirit’ bullshit, this is purely because they are envious of the money and economic appreciation of the watch in the 7-8 months post original launch. If selling a watch at market value (be it trade or consumer price) is critiqued as profiteering, then I suppose 99.5% of sales here are classed as profiteering.

  13. #63
    Grand Master MartynJC (UK)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spareparts View Post
    If selling a watch at market value (be it trade or consumer price) is critiqued as profiteering, then I suppose 99.5% of sales here are classed as profiteering.
    Spot on. Just happens - in this case the market value has gone above initial MRP.

  14. #64
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    I strongly disagree.
    You put your name on the waiting list for watch in good faith
    You want the watch
    However, when the call comes to say it has arrived, you realise that without touching it you can go home £2k richer.
    You take the £2k, simply because if you don't, someone else will.
    This is not profiteering (which is used here as an intentionally perjorative word).
    Especially, as has happened here a few times, you accept less (say, £1.5k) to sell in the forum than you could in the open market. Then 2 people benefit.
    All you are doing is acknowledging that the market has handed you an opportunity.

    I absolutely seee nothing wrong with this. Personally, I think that suggesting that you leave it at the AD for some other person to profit by (as you seem to) is unusually naive.

    Dave
    I just paid over a grand above list to acquire mine, and both the seller and I are happy. No big deal, and nobody’s business but ours.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    I just paid over a grand above list to acquire mine, and both the seller and I are happy. No big deal, and nobody’s business but ours.
    As an actual keen owner your opinions may be worth soliciting as they should have more value than someone who flips it after 3 days, what have you chosen to wear it on? One of the included straps, an aftermarket strap or a bracelet?

  16. #66
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padders View Post
    As an actual keen owner your opinion may be worth soliciting, what have you chosen to wear it on? One of the included straps, an aftermarket strap or a bracelet?
    It’s on a Hirsch Heritage and looks the dog’s!

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    It’s on a Hirsch Heritage and looks the dog’s!
    Thanks. I know it sounds silly but the price of those puts me off. A bit muddle headed I know when it is being put on a watch trading at £5-6K!

    I will probably give that a go if my Bob's watch Snoopy strap doesn't come up to snuff.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    It’s on a Hirsch Heritage and looks the dog’s!
    I assume heritage means a shade of brown?

    Only ask as it looks great on some the darker shades as well.

    I'd like to change the strap on mine and that Heritage looks a good option.

    I'm just frightened of using that tool as it looks like it's specifically designed to scratch the lugs!



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  19. #69
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    What exactly is a speedmaster Tuesday , I’ve heard this expression before and don’t get the association between a speedmaster and tuesdays 🤷🏽*♀️


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  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by charlies View Post
    What exactly is a speedmaster Tuesday , I’ve heard this expression before and don’t get the association between a speedmaster and tuesdays 🤷🏽*♀️


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    Google might bring something up?

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by charlies View Post
    What exactly is a speedmaster Tuesday , I’ve heard this expression before and don’t get the association between a speedmaster and tuesdays
    Some forum nerds decided that they'd start wearing Speedmasters on Tuesdays sometimes, so Omega made yet another limited edition in tribute to the niche online trend.

    I'm not even joking — that's the entire basis for this thing.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belligero View Post
    Some forum nerds decided that they'd start wearing Speedmasters on Tuesdays sometimes, so Omega made yet another limited edition in tribute to the niche online trend.

    I'm not even joking — that's the entire basis for this thing.
    You are not joking but nor are you particularly complete in your answer. The watch 'celebrates' 5 years of a blog devoted to variants of the Speedmaster.

    https://www.fratellowatches.com/cate...peedy-tuesday/

  23. #73
    Whoopee.

  24. #74
    Master RJM25R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belligero View Post
    Whoopee.
    It is quite a good blog if you like these kind of things.

    Which being on here, would more than likely be the case.......

  25. #75
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    It's actually a quite informative and interesting blog as blogs go. No issue with Omega choosing them, After all life would be boring if all the limited editions went to Hodinkee.

  26. #76
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    We could have the 'Sad Speedy' limited edition..for all those not on the Speedy Tuesday list.

  27. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    It is quite a good blog if you like these kind of things.

    Which being on here, would more than likely be the case.......
    Sure, as far as the online-advertorial world goes, it's probably a bit better than complete garbage like ABTW — not exactly a high hurdle to clear — but regardless of the quality of the site, I'm just not particularly interested in any watch that owes its existence to being a thing on some dude's blog.

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Essentially a collaboration with Fratello Watches who are American and then omega pretty much made sure America couldn’t order the watch. What an error.
    They are Dutch...


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  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    I just paid over a grand above list to acquire mine, and both the seller and I are happy. No big deal, and nobody’s business but ours.
    This should be a sticky in the SC.

  30. #80
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Just paid for mine, it is with Swatch in London and will be sent to me either this afternoon or tomorrow.

    Nearly there.

  31. #81
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    Just paid for mine, it is with Swatch in London and will be sent to me either this afternoon or tomorrow.

    Nearly there.
    Fiver to the fund raiser says you keep it after all the hassle!!!!!
    :-)

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnlover View Post
    Fiver to the fund raiser says you keep it after all the hassle!!!!!
    :-)
    I feel really strange, for nine months I have been honest and open about selling it, but now it's paid for and on its way minor tingles of excitement. I need to see it in the flesh before making any decisions.

    I won't be listing it on SC though, not after the last few bombed.

  33. #83
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    I feel really strange, for nine months I have been honest and open about selling it, but now it's paid for and on its way minor tingles of excitement. I need to see it in the flesh before making any decisions.

    I won't be listing it on SC though, not after the last few bombed.
    Keep it- how can you not love a reverse cowgirl? Errr, I mean panda.

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Keep it- how can you not love a reverse cowgirl? Errr, I mean panda.
    The one thought that I had was offering it in part trade (with cash as necessary) for any of the following: Ceramic Daytona, BLNR, SD50 etc. There seems to be a few in the trading game at the moment and our friends at WF are always good for that. Who knows.

  35. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    I feel really strange, for nine months I have been honest and open about selling it, but now it's paid for and on its way minor tingles of excitement. I need to see it in the flesh before making any decisions.

    I won't be listing it on SC though, not after the last few bombed.
    I originally had thought about trading it, but as soon as I saw it on my wrist it became a keeper. It is a fantastic watch

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    I feel really strange, for nine months I have been honest and open about selling it, but now it's paid for and on its way minor tingles of excitement. I need to see it in the flesh before making any decisions.
    You might be kidding yourself on, but no one else. We all know you’ll be selling it quicker than one can say profiteer

  37. #87
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    28 Speedy Tuesdays listed on Chrono 24 - 13 of which are UK sellers.

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Ally- View Post
    You might be kidding yourself on, but no one else. We all know you’ll be selling it quicker than one can say profiteer
    I predict it will turn out, surprisingly, to be 'the one.' A couple of months' time will see Ken crouched in a corner, rocking back and forth, gently stroking the crystal while mumbling "my precious..." over and over.

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    28 Speedy Tuesdays listed on Chrono 24 - 13 of which are UK sellers.
    A unique selling point would be "worn with scratches" I reckon, unworn Speedy Tuesdays are so last Month.

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    28 Speedy Tuesdays listed on Chrono 24
    And the lowest price listed is £6250.

  41. #91
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhhh View Post
    And the lowest price listed is £6250.
    It appears that a steady stream of them are heading over to the US for between £6k and £6.5k and taking into account that the UK RRP was far lower than in the States and the current exchange rates, our profiteering asking price is near as damn it close to their RRP - so everyone's happy.

  42. #92
    Master hhhh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    our profiteering asking price is near as damn it close to their RRP - so everyone's happy.
    There's the P word again.

    Going over (and over) old ground I know, but personally, and it is only my opinion, I find the idea that anyone is "profiteering" from a luxury watch completely ludicrous, and a bit embarrassing.

    While the definition of the word might include reference to selling items in short supply for a higher price, it also states that the inflated price is unfair, and causes other people suffering. This is because it is meant to be used in such examples as food shortages, fuel shortages or shortages in other of life's essentials, usually in times of war or oppression.

    Clearly, a limited edition watch is not essential to anybody, and it's absence does not cause suffering (although maybe a degree of angst). As a non essential item, none can be sold at any price unless somebody is prepared to pay that price, and as Tony said earlier, that is purely the business of the seller and the buyer.

    Ken, whilst I have quoted a bit of your post, this is not aimed at you, just a general comment on the most over-used word on TZ in recent weeks, whether it be in relation to Omegas, Rolex, shoes, handbags....whatever.
    Last edited by hhhh; 19th October 2017 at 22:00.

  43. #93
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhhh View Post
    There's the P word again.

    Ken, whilst I have quoted a bit of your post, this is not aimed at you, just a general comment on the most over-used word on TZ in recent weeks, whether it be in relation to Omegas, Rolex, shoes, handbags....whatever.
    That's fine H, I used the word in a sarcastic way to poke fun at us and your points are right. Couldn't help thinking of Private Walker on Dad's Army.

  44. #94
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    Disappointed on Omega's failed promises to deliver that keeps getting rolled.
    The watch itself is a stunner. Original price seems reasonable. Secondary market one will be rationalised over time but will remain above the original in my view

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  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhhh View Post
    There's the P word again.

    Going over (and over) old ground I know, but personally, and it is only my opinion, I find the idea that anyone is "profiteering" from a luxury watch completely ludicrous, and a bit embarrassing.

    While the definition of the word might include reference to selling items in short supply for a higher price, it also states that the inflated price is unfair, and causes other people suffering. This is because it is meant to be used in such examples as food shortages, fuel shortages or shortages in other of life's essentials, usually in times of war or oppression.

    Clearly, a limited edition watch is not essential to anybody, and it's absence does not cause suffering (although maybe a degree of angst). As a non essential item, none can be sold at any price unless somebody is prepared to pay that price, and as Tony said earlier, that is purely the business of the seller and the buyer.

    Ken, whilst I have quoted a bit of your post, this is not aimed at you, just a general comment on the most over-used word on TZ in recent weeks, whether it be in relation to Omegas, Rolex, shoes, handbags....whatever.
    Wonderfully and eloquently explained. Agree with you completely on the definition of 'profiteering'. To be honest, I find it natural to want to make money whenever possible (obviously legally and with as little negative impact on people and environment), and an earlier post also stated it's natural to want to make a 2k profit. Who wouldn't ? This is a luxury item and the choice is ultimately the buyers. Making some money out of luxury items as per market forces of supply and demand is hardly new. And sometimes I am happy to pay a premium to save me the hassle and slog of trying to obtain a piece I want.

    But of course this depends completely on the asking entry price which again is dependent and variable to each individual depending on their financial capacity and desire for the piece.


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  46. #96
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhhh View Post
    There's the P word again.

    Going over (and over) old ground I know, but personally, and it is only my opinion, I find the idea that anyone is "profiteering" from a luxury watch completely ludicrous, and a bit embarrassing.

    While the definition of the word might include reference to selling items in short supply for a higher price, it also states that the inflated price is unfair, and causes other people suffering. This is because it is meant to be used in such examples as food shortages, fuel shortages or shortages in other of life's essentials, usually in times of war or oppression.

    Clearly, a limited edition watch is not essential to anybody, and it's absence does not cause suffering (although maybe a degree of angst). As a non essential item, none can be sold at any price unless somebody is prepared to pay that price, and as Tony said earlier, that is purely the business of the seller and the buyer.

    Ken, whilst I have quoted a bit of your post, this is not aimed at you, just a general comment on the most over-used word on TZ in recent weeks, whether it be in relation to Omegas, Rolex, shoes, handbags....whatever.
    Well said, Howard. It's the most inaccurately used word on TZ-UK, and it drives me freaking nuts when I see it.

  47. #97
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    I am going to ask a gormless question.

    Why not buy the original 3570.50 model. It is a classic and you can buy either used or brand new or am I missing something ?

  48. #98
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    I am going to ask a gormless question.

    Why not buy the original 3570.50 model. It is a classic and you can buy either used or brand new or am I missing something ?
    I had one and effectively traded it against the ST. I'm a sucker for a reverse panda and I prefer the case finish. I also like the fact that it's a LE.

  49. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    I had one and effectively traded it against the ST. I'm a sucker for a reverse panda and I prefer the case finish. I also like the fact that it's a LE.
    I'd agree with those points on appearance, but would prefer it wasn't LE. And I'm not at all bothered by the SpeedyTuesday connection, but the whole package seems nice with the strap options and leather roll which makes a nice change from the current suitcase offered with the standard moon watch.

  50. #100
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    Unfortunately the world is divided between the haves ( have a Speedy Tuesday ) and the have nots ( have not got a Speedy Tuesday ) the elite dangle their trinket at us whilst luxuriating in their Salons and clubs. We The angry mob gather, demanding punishment for their profiteering.... Or at least that’s how it appears whenever one appears on Sales Corner.

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