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Thread: Rolex Daytona 16520 Prices ???

  1. #1

    Unhappy Rolex Daytona 16520 Prices ???

    Earlier this year I helped source a s/s Daytona for a family member. Plenty of choice - 16520s, 116520s, 116500s - from c.8k for a basic example (private sale) to 13k for a virtually new one (ex-dealer). We bought a 2016 116520 for 11k - very nice, but I thought we had hit 'the top of the market'.

    Fast Forward 8 months and I quite fancy one myself - thought I'd go for a standard 16520 Zenith - but prices are all over the place. Why? Where's the logic?

    They are not especially rare, and a newer 116520 or 116500 may be a better watch (I know opinions are divided - often by what people own themselves).

    Certainly, there's a few people (one chap on eBay in particular) asking comical prices, and these aren't selling, but they clearly 'skew' the market.

    I did try a 16520 at a dealers yesterday - nice watch, but not exactly overwhelmed at 14,500!

    I'd pay a fair price for a nice example, but I'm not sure current prices are sustainable and don't want to get my fingers burnt.

    So, what's the view on these?

  2. #2
    I bought a white dial 16520 from Watches of Distinction of 9k last December and at the time that was the going rate for one. I sold it on here a few weeks later for the same price.

    Fast forward to this summer and as you say, you cannot find one below 13k - 14k and the likes of WF are asking a lot more, including one with a service dial.

    Will the prices collapse, definitely not. Will they continue to rise, who knows?

    The prices shot up on the back of the new ceramic release and those as we know are trading for 15k+.

  3. #3
    Craftsman
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    Saw a white dial ceramic yesterday (used) in an independents window. 15.8k.

  4. #4
    Master huytonman's Avatar
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    I bought one last year from a German Chrono24 dealer, paid about 13k which was top money then but it had just been serviced and had the original boxes/paperwork. I needed to raise some cash last month and after a few enquirers to dealers which yielded offers around 10k (which obviously had me worried) I had one from watchfinder for between 12k and 13k and as they were selling one on their site for approx 16k I decided to list it on Ebay using a 1/final value fee deal, nothing to lose in this case with a buy it now price of 15.5k. It sold within a few hours with a dealer buying it for his own collection. So yes it looks like 16k'ish is about right and even sans box and papers etc you are 12k+ IMO. When I bought mine last November I had missed out on a few around the 11k price with B&P, they were all snapped up within hours of appearing for sale. Why the inflation? The gravitational pull of Rolex, mixed with an element of aura around the Zenith based movement together with it being discontinued and finally the ceramic model seems to have boosted used sales by quite a bit.
    Keith

  5. #5
    It is bizarre - especially when lovely bi-metallic, yellow gold and white gold 'Zeniths', with full sets, can be picked up for 10k(ish).

  6. #6
    A certain element of the problem is the herd mentality, people on forums like this see that SS is the only way to go and feel obliged to follow. When I was collecting images for my article on Porcelain dials last week I showed the family the various pics and with them having no interest in watches whatsoever all dismissed the most desirable SS model as dull and boring. They thought the full gold version was a bit over the top (rattle, rattle, jewellery, jewellery I thought) but they liked the two tone version.

    In SS you have a straight choice, black or white dial, but expand the case metal a little and there are a whole host of dial combinations available.

    Go on google images, do your research and buy the one that is right for you, not what you think you should buy.
    Last edited by Wallasey Runner; 12th October 2017 at 22:32.

  7. #7
    Master helidoc's Avatar
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    On the recent Watchfinder thread Haywood made a comment about them acting as a market maker, setting the price which everyone adjusts to, thus being a driver of price inflation. I'm sure this is really insightful, and a significant part of the price rise. Of course there is a drag effect from the Ceramic, and the sports Rolex supply/ demand imbalance too.

    As an aside, I still don't get the Daytona as a watch, with its useless and over-sized tachymetre bezel, but it's value as a commodity continues to astound.

    Dave


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  8. #8
    Master
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    The Zenith Daytona is the best looking Daytona without a doubt. The proportions and positioning of the sub dials are perfect and it is very readable with the black / white contrast. I admit I am surprised at the prices quoted as I only paid 7750 15 months ago for my white dial model and it was still under a service warranty and 100% original.

    I would say it is the least liked of my 5 Rolex mainly because my 1999 model has PCLs which I find a bit loud. I keep meaning to sell it and then change my mind because the wife likes it.

    One downside to the 16520s is that the pushers are fairly hard to push compared to the others.
    Last edited by Mick P; 13th October 2017 at 10:01.

  9. #9

    16520 - Prices and Models

    OK - now a bit more informed (thanks for the PMs and an evening reading the 'Legend is Born' book).

    It would seem that the Daytona 16500 (Zenith) models were produced from 1987 - 2000, evolving over that period with several alphabetic 'Series'. Some of which are quite rare and some (1991 >) made in fairly significant numbers.

    Although I would be interested in a watch for regular wear, if spending a 5-figure sum, I'd rather have something that would retain its collectability value. Helpful if the market does nosedive. And, obviously, B&Ps do add value.

    Would I be correct to assume that a pre-1991 model (with the all brushed s/s bracelet) would be a better buy than the more common later models?

    Or, is there a downside to the earlier series?

    thanks

  10. #10
    The problem is how many normal watch buyers get excited by the relatively small changes. Dealers will talk up a Mark 1 floating dial or add a shedload of cash on to a Mark 2 four liner and even ask a bit more for a later inverted 6, but to collectors and enthusiasts these little details matter.

    Just look at the red Subs and DRSDs and the amount of detail about the different dials. With the Sub anything meters first is highly prized, with the DRSD a Mark 2 dial is worth nearly twice as much as a Mark 3. The same applies to the 5512 and 5513 and just look at that other thread - just because a Sub had 3, 6, 9 on it, it is worth the same price as a house.

    So to answer the question, yes, earlier matters if you ever come to sell later on.

    I bet the watches that you have viewed so far have all been later dials etc. How many dealers have pulled out a Mark 1 or Mark 2 dial for you to look at.

    Rare is best
    Last edited by Wallasey Runner; 13th October 2017 at 15:23.

  11. #11
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geneve View Post
    OK - now a bit more informed (thanks for the PMs and an evening reading the 'Legend is Born' book).

    It would seem that the Daytona 16500 (Zenith) models were produced from 1987 - 2000, evolving over that period with several alphabetic 'Series'. Some of which are quite rare and some (1991 >) made in fairly significant numbers.

    Although I would be interested in a watch for regular wear, if spending a 5-figure sum, I'd rather have something that would retain its collectability value. Helpful if the market does nosedive. And, obviously, B&Ps do add value.

    Would I be correct to assume that a pre-1991 model (with the all brushed s/s bracelet) would be a better buy than the more common later models?

    Or, is there a downside to the earlier series?

    thanks
    Be careful as it is a bit of a minefield and yes collectors do dictate the market.

    I bought a 1999 P series because they have a luminova dial which is collectible and a bit more practical. Also it has a SEL and PCLs that again makes it a bit more desirable.

    There is a chart floating around somewhere listing which year and which colour face are rare or common.

    Please remember nearly every 16520 was on a two year waiting list. So they are all fairly rare.

  12. #12
    There you go Mick:



    Although the chart specifically details 16520 in Stainless steel, the details of the dials etc equally apply to the 16523 (TT) and 16528 (full 18ct gold). So it is a useful document for all 165xx models.

    I love the comment at the very bottom about Porcelain dials.
    Last edited by Wallasey Runner; 13th October 2017 at 16:40.

  13. #13
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    There you go Mick:



    Although the chart specifically details 16520 in Stainless steel, the details of the dials etc equally apply to the 16523 (TT) and 16528 (full 18ct gold). So it is a useful document for all 165xx models.

    I love the comment at the very bottom about Porcelain dials.
    The OP needs to download that chart and carry it around with him, it is a useful guide.

  14. #14
    So, can I assume this 'L-Series' should have a 4-line dial, and is therefore incorrect?

    http://www.vintagetimes.nl/product/r...enith-daytona/
    Last edited by Geneve; 14th October 2017 at 09:14.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Geneve View Post
    So, can I assume this 'L-Series' should have a 4-line dial, and is therefore incorrect?l
    There is of course overlap. An R serial is generally a floating dial and an L serial should be a four liner, but it isn't as fixed as that. There will be examples of an L serial with a floating dial, but I doubt that you would find an R serial with a four line dial.

    As new dials appeared they could have been used across a range of movements. To the guys on the production line it was just the next dial out of the box.

    On my article on Porcelain dials I posted a picture of a four line Porcelain dial. Logically that should not exist.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Wallasey Runner; 13th October 2017 at 17:59.

  16. #16
    Craftsman
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    Loose mk4 1995 W series purchased in July.


  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Geneve View Post
    So, can I assume this 'L-Series' should have a 4-line dial, and is therefore incorrect?
    http://www.vintagetimes.nl/product/r...enith-daytona/

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    There is of course overlap.........As new dials appeared they could have been used across a range of movements. To the guys on the production line it was just the next dial out of the box.


    I spoke with the seller and the watch apparently had a later dial fitted at a previous service. Probably a common occurrence, but obviously an important aspect of what made it interesting, is no longer original.

    I'd rather buy an original 'non-rare' 16520 than a 'rare' model that is no longer original.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Geneve View Post
    I'd rather buy an original 'non-rare' 16520 than a 'rare' model that is no longer original.
    Absolutely, a watch that once had a rare dial that now carries a service replacement is only worth a fraction of what it once was and most buyers wouldn't touch it.

    WF have another 16520 listed with the correct dial, but it isn't cheap.

    I think with these watches, they are not rare as such, just expensive. If you were going to spend 15k for example there are probably several dealers that you could go to today and buy from. Rare tends to describe unavailable watches.

    I would love to test the market with mine and see what the reaction was. Might give it to Watches of Knightsbridge, if it sold for stupid money it would be worth paying the fees

  19. #19
    Some sellers are asking 'premium' prices because they are described as a "full set" - basically box and papers.

    Whilst these are nice to have, they can be largely re-constructed, with the exception of the original 'punched' Certificate.

    However, for me, a recent Official Rolex Service & Warranty Card is arguably an equal or better alternative, to substantiate its provenance.

    If the price and all else was right, I might buy a 16520 without the 'extras' and then have it Serviced - although there is a big risk on the potential cost of a Rolex Service - I believe these can run into 1,500+ on a 25 year old Zenith!

    Mick P has been very helpful with PM'd advice - definitely a minefield out there, and lots of over-pricing. But still looking.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Geneve View Post

    If the price and all else was right, I might buy a 16520 without the 'extras' and then have it Serviced - although there is a big risk on the potential cost of a Rolex Service - I believe these can run into 1,500+ on a 25 year old Zenith!

    1500 for a service?

    I presume that'd be if lots of work needed doing? I believe they're generally reliable movements so hopefully that'd be rare...

  21. #21
    I thought 600 for a basic service, possibly rising close to a grand if the pushers, crown, glass and other bits and bobs need replacing.

    1,500.00 sounds more like a restoration.

  22. #22
    Master
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    The AD in my town (please note I have not said my AD) advised me that he is not allowed to service a 16520 and they must be returned to Rolex. The basic fee was quoted as 890.00 plus any extras. The AD reckoned the average price paid was around 1100.00.

  23. #23
    Craftsman
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    I've tried a couple of Daytonas on but have been underwhelmed.
    Am open to having my mind changed but as residuals continue to climb it's looking less and less likely !


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  24. #24
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    speculative pricing

    Quote Originally Posted by Geneve View Post
    Earlier this year I helped source a s/s Daytona for a family member. Plenty of choice - 16520s, 116520s, 116500s - from c.8k for a basic example (private sale) to 13k for a virtually new one (ex-dealer). We bought a 2016 116520 for 11k - very nice, but I thought we had hit 'the top of the market'.

    Fast Forward 8 months and I quite fancy one myself - thought I'd go for a standard 16520 Zenith - but prices are all over the place. Why? Where's the logic?

    They are not especially rare, and a newer 116520 or 116500 may be a better watch (I know opinions are divided - often by what people own themselves).

    Certainly, there's a few people (one chap on eBay in particular) asking comical prices, and these aren't selling, but they clearly 'skew' the market.

    I did try a 16520 at a dealers yesterday - nice watch, but not exactly overwhelmed at 14,500!

    I'd pay a fair price for a nice example, but I'm not sure current prices are sustainable and don't want to get my fingers burnt.

    So, what's the view on these?
    The 16520 market is full of dealer speculative pricing and some hype thrown in to justify the pricing.

    When selling my A series a couple of months ago fresh from a Rolex service, the prices quoted by dealers to buy in and what they were then selling them for was eye watering laughable. Armour Winston, we will buy at 7500 and put in our window for 15000, likewise Austin Kaye, watch club etc etc.

    I think everyone with regards to rolex is searching for the next "Newman" a watch that will make you a fortune in years to come. I do not think the 16520 are in that arena and do not think we will ever see anything again like the Newman daytona phenomenon.

    Certainly a great watch on the wrist the 16520 but service costs are high and i would expect them to get higher as the years go by but to be honest i do not really miss it, got a deal which put a sizable profit chunk in my bank with no regrets.

    It is probably one of the few watches that if you had one and really loved it, you could have a one watch collection. Ticks a lot of boxes but for me just not all.

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