Happy Thursday all,
I've been considering the purchase of a Grand Seiko (Hi Beat GMT)
As I don't want to pay RRP, what are the best options, do I import from Japan or wait for Jura to have a sale and hope that the model I want is reduced?
I'm assuming that import duty and vat is applicable on a Japanese import.
How much duty would have to be paid?
Thanks in advance for any help.
I'd buy either from Japan or from US vendors such as Arizona Fine Time or Topper Fine Jewellers (who both have good reports).Originally Posted by klunk
No Duty would be payable. You'll have to pay 20% VAT on the purchase price including postage, plus a courier's handling fee of c.£15-£18.
Do you want it brand new? There's a dealer (also a member of the Dutch forum) in the Netherlands who has an SBGJ019 for sale right now.
They come up on SC quite often; that's where to buy them. Importing from Japan works out as not a lot different to buying in a UK sale such as Jura. Lovely watches, an interesting challenge to the Rolex GMT. More discrete, more classy...to me anyway. But much poorer resale values.
Just spotted there is one on SC right now.
Last edited by paskinner; 5th October 2017 at 16:27.
If you definitely want new your choice is limited. As others have said look out for one in sales corner is your best bet. To be honest I don't think I would ever buy a watch (that I can afford) new as they all take hit.
Lovely watches I don't think you will regret it.
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Thanks all for your advice.
MarkR, thanks for the info, I'll drop an email to the US dealers mentioned to see what their prices are like.
Jack, thanks for the heads up, I'll be quite happy to find a pre-owned if it's the right watch in good condition.
PAS, thanks again for the PM, that's a really nice piece in SC at the moment, so am giving that some thought, though I'll probably hold out for a GMT.
I'm in no hurry at the moment, so will probably see what deals are available either on SC or elsewhere.
I'll keep you all updated.
Thanks I didn't know that - food for thought.
Do they have to go back to Japan for a service?
In truth, all Grand Seikos run very well on normal service intervals of five or six years. The instructions are way too cautious. You'l have no problems with servicing. Or reliability. These are tough , ŵell made watches with the Seiko durability deep in their DNA. Even the complex spring-drive is very reliable. I had two hi-beats and they are just great. Not finicky or high maintenance at all. Rather like the hi-beat Zeniths in that respect.
Last edited by paskinner; 5th October 2017 at 19:45.
Might sound a bit extravagant, but, and probably only if you're very sure you wish to make the purchase, have you considered a trip to Japan and purchasing from there? The prices are really quite significantly more affordable there, you'll have access to a much larger selection, and you'll hopefully have a great holiday too. Of course this might not be practical at all! If so, forget I ever said anything
I would advise getting to a Seiko boutique where you can handle a large selection. A lot of people seem to buy GS from the internet having never seen one then quickly sell it on.
I was convinced I needed a particular GS model but when I saw it in person I was put off by the proportions and thickness, it felt like a ladies watch and I ended up choosing a completely different model that I'd never have bought based upon its dimensions or internet pictures alone.
I've got two Grand Seikos and am very happy with both of them but there's plenty of models that I've handled which aren't for me.
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I wonder what effect the new GS branding (without 'SEIKO' on the dial) has had on the residuals of the earlier models?
Perhaps better to hold out for a later model if residuals matter to you.
Just the other day someone was commenting on Watchuseek that Japanese sellers have started charging more for remaining stock of the Seiko branded ones. I've no idea if there's any truth to this.
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I always have been useless when it comes to money and watches.
In that case, I'll give you £50 for any Grand Seikos you don't want any more and £100 for any Rolexes you don't want any more.
Bargain prices for naff watches, I tell you.
Also 50p for any of those Patrick Philips ones.
;-)
I was in Tokyo looking at GS GMT the other day it worked out at £4.5k from memory. If there is a model number you wish me to price up let me know.
might be this one....
Seiya states that no shipment to EU & UK
Last edited by seikomatic; 6th October 2017 at 04:25.
Do seiko stipulate 3 years or 5-6 years in their instructions/booklet?
mike
3 yrs for Hi-Beat, 5 yrss for Auto and Spring Drive
Anyone know what it costs to service a GMT Hi-Beat please?
"A man of little significance"
So what if it's worn in rotation with other watches, say once a month. It has to be serviced every 36 to 60 days of use?
Modern oils don't break down or dry up like they used to.
Like a previous poster has said, Seiko is being conservative to hedge their bets (and also increase their service revenues).
In rotation, I think an Auto/Spring Drive would be fine with 6-10 yrs. Hi Beat a little less. Theres people out there with Spring drives that haven't serviced them for over 12 years.
As always the best person to judge if a watch needs servicing is the wearer, you can generally tell when performance has changed
What is the official service interval for a modern Rolex Submariner?
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
There's no denying that's a generous offer Mark, particularly considering the current CHF/GBP exchange rate, but one I'll have to decline.
In any case, I figured long ago that if I never sell then I will never have to face making a loss. That's Watch Maths.
Last edited by forpetesake; 6th October 2017 at 08:37.
might be this one....
Seiya states that no shipment to EU & UK
Thanks Middo, I think the equivalent model with the new Grand Seiko branding on the dial is the SBGJ201.
It would be interesting to know what they are selling for in Japan.
Last edited by klunk; 6th October 2017 at 08:46.
I think it's generally accepted to be around five years - dependant on usage.
listed 723,000
$6,300 from the US site
Last edited by seikomatic; 6th October 2017 at 09:14.
I just watched a youtube video on the SBGJ201.
It's a bit thicker than I thought - 14mm according to Jura's website.
I think i'm going to visit the Boutique in London and take a look at the various models before I take the plunge
I know, and it would be exactly the same as GS state for their (non- Hi-Beat) watches.
I was wondering if there is an official Rolex communication about service intervals, as it seems to be always brought up as an argument why GS are either inferior in build quality or more expensive to maintain.
Rolex have never given a specific period for servicing, no doubt because conditions vary. The thing about ten year servicing is a myth, Rolex never said that, despite what some ADs like to claim.
I would have thought between five and seven years is probably sensible. GS watches are very durable in my experience. I would see them as watches to have confidence in. Buy them if you like them, servicing and long levity are unlikely to trouble you; resale values might.
10 years for first service, 5 years thereafter.
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...l-Announcement – #50
Yes, it is quite thick, as are many GS mechanicals. The quartz with the same case shape wears so much better in my opinion, nice and flat to the wrist, and none of the concerns about servicing. Great dials though on the GMTs.
An official communication? Just something somebody at an AD said, or?
Honestly, I don't think there is any difference in build or robustness of Rolex versus GS movements - the two are probably the best money can buy. And if worn in rotation, I wouldn't see any reason to rush to a service before 10 years (or a deterioration in performance). I have no idea about the hi-beat GS, maybe there is a reason why Rolex slowed down the hi-beat Zenith movement before they cased it into the Daytona?
Sadly, just a myth. To cut things short; find a statement by Rolex..in writing....suggesting a ten year service interval and I will , without hesitation, donate £50 to charity. The tz charity.
No such statement exists. And please, no 'some guy told me' stuff. A written statement from the Rolex literature.not some third party...Rolex.
Good luck.
For those who care; this all started with a Rolex service letter to ADs, July First, 2015, which announced the new five year guarantee. It then contained the following paragraph.
''The length of our service warranty will remain at two years. However the typical time frame between service intervals has grown to approximately ten years.''
And that's it. Just a comment about the habits of Rolex owners. It's all available on the Rolex Forum.
Last edited by paskinner; 6th October 2017 at 12:29.
:-)
Directly from a Rolex employee at St James Square, whose first name I referenced in the linked thread.
Just confirmed with Chad from Rolex UK Customer Relations, and the recommendation is “not more than 10 years” – so your £50 charity donation can remain on hold.
Wasn't Chad the guy who confirmed the prototype dial when he was still working for Omega?
But seriously, you do understand the difference between what an employee says over the phone and something in writing by the company?
Quite, my challenge was specific...find a statement made in writing by Rolex. You won't. This is a myth.
As it's for charity I will up the ante. Find me a written statement on Rolex letterhead stating any specific service period. Again, no quoting what guys told you....find it as an official statement from Rolex. There isn't one. Statements about servicing yes, of course. Giving a specific period. Never.
And 'no more than ten years' is far from a recommendation to have a service every ten years.
Last edited by paskinner; 6th October 2017 at 13:49.
That could be conferred as making a distinction for distinction sake, rather than there being any fundamental difference.
An employee stating what he knows to be correct as a result of internal comms and documentation, doesn’t mean that he/she isn’t providing factually correct information.
From a legal standing, even if Rolex (or whomever else) were to state a recommended service interval, it’s just that – a recommendation. You’d find it very hard to persuade a sitting judge that it implied some sort of contract or warranty, so the matter is pretty much a moot point, and owners will have their watch(es) serviced when they can see an issue or whenever they feel is the right time to err on the side of caution.
I didn’t intend for the topic to swing away from the thread’s title to this, so I’m going to leave it there – as interesting a separate discussion it could be.
@paskinner – different person, and it’s been well over two years since the issue was first discussed. Things change, clarifications get made, etc.
Last edited by PJ S; 18th October 2017 at 21:22. Reason: feel, not fell
Nope. If Rolex don't put this in writing, it's for a reason. I am sure there is not even an internal memo about it. Whatever an employee says could be dependent on what their immediate boss says or what they have established to be the consensus, but if Rolex are not prepared to put it in writing it's not worth anything.
[QUOTE=Raffe;4517831... if Rolex are not prepared to put it in writing it's not worth anything.[/QUOTE]
Correct.
I have chased this issue because it is misleading to claim Rolex recommend ten year service. Even your 'chad' uses a far more slippery term about 'maximum' service intervals. I own two newish Rolex models so this is not just an academic issue for me.
Anyway, this is indeed a thread about Grand Seiko. I think they are robust, fine, watches which will manage very well with industry standard service intervals. I would see that as between five and seven years. I have a lot of faith in both Rolex and Grand Seiko.
In the end, you buy whichever watch you fancy. This is high quality stuff.
Last edited by paskinner; 6th October 2017 at 14:13.
Ultra high beat watches (36000 bpm) use specialised greases although I have owned a couple I've never had them serviced.
Cheers,
Neil.
Back on topic. Buy one if you like them.
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Yes, it really is as simple as that. A GS has a wonderful quality of finish. They just look very fine on the wrist. If you can, consider one of the special editions; some of them are absolute stars , and likely to rise in value. I suspect the superceded 'Seiko' labelled models will become more valuable, because the numbers are finite. Grand Seiko is going up in the world. About time too.
Hello! The OP asked about Grand Seiko, not bloody Rolex. Please change the record some of you.
As others have said, buy new and take a big hit unless you KNOW you're going to keep it (how many times have I said that to myself lol). Or buy used, sc obviously great.
I bought my now flipped sbgm021 gmt from Govberg jewellers in the States. It was new but registered to them, probably a display model, and it came in at £2500 with carriage, vat, and handling fees applied. At the time the model was £4k through Jura. So some big savings to be made through them.
As for service intervals, I received from sc this week a sbgx083 that doesn't need a service for another 43 years (not including battery changes of course).
Whatever route you take, buy a GS with as much confidence as any other make, they really are beautifull.
- - - Updated - - -
Indeed to both :)
I am a big fan of Grand Seiko watches; I own three of them of which two are limited editions. They share many characteristics with similar Rolex watches (machine produced, engineered to perfection, solid and robust movements, will last forever), however seem to appeal to a slightly different clientele.
What I like about them is that they go completely unrecognised in public. Unfortunately their value doesn't hold up as well as for Rolex, suppose much of it owed to lesser brand value. Maybe no surprise given the public don't know what they are?
My recommendation to the OP would be to look at a good second hand model, they are usually offered at very reasonable prices.
Hi I will keep an eye out.
Thanks
Shopping In Japan often has the yen tags in their photos.
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I had a nice chat with the manager of the new Seiko boutique in Knightsbridge - a nice guy and an enthusiast. He assured me this 'unrecognised' quality is set to change next year. No details, but I presume that means the push into boutiques will be backed up by a significant marketing campaign making the brand much more visible.
I have 2 GS models, a Spring Drive SBGA003 and a quartz SBGX063. Both have stunning dials and handsets and both were purchased pre-owned for less than half current RRPs. Bought that way they're probably the best value watches in my collection.
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