Got it on CNN now, awful & unfortunately, numbers going up. Stayed at MB/Luxor & know the immediate area well.
Very happy memories. My all time fave place.
Just shocking! Do they know what motivated it yet in terms of politics or some crazy person? I am sure we will look back in the future and remember a time when there were not armed guards everywhere at large events, but that's what will happen if you ask me.
Really sad.
Networks are saying that the gunman was Steven Haddock, a 64 year old local man.
sent from TZ-UK mobile app
Stephen PaddockOriginally Posted by vagabond
Terrible situation. It's only going to cause more outrage and disagreement in a country that's really suffering with massive divisions right now.
Death count at 50 now. Deadliest mass shooting is US history
It's America why does this surprise anybody, shootings occur every day of every week of every month.
If you allow any idiot to own a gun, not just a gun but a military type semi-automatic weapon, what do you expect ?
- 'First 9 months of 2017: - 11,572 gun deaths -23,365 gun injuries -271 mass shootings -1,508 unintentional shootings -2,971 kids/teens shot.'
I make that 42 people shot dead every day.
The NRA is totally responsible for this, the blood is on their hands.
As they continually lobby against and block gun control.
Their prime argument seems to be that by being allowed to carry guns people can fight back - unbelievable I know.
How did the right to bear arms help those 50+ people gunned down today ?
Will the imbecile in the White House actually act and do something ?
Yet another lunatic with a gun ruining the lives of so many. Are they ever going to be able to get this under control in America?
Some will even manage to twist this into an argument of needing more guns
If you want to top yourself. JUMP you tosser! I hope he died slowly in agony.
Sounded like a full auto machine gun to me?
AFAIK these guns aren't legal to own for joe public so the "ban them" argument is a bit silly and reminds me of when the Paris attack happened with illegally held/smuggled AK47's and there was a big fuss to ban guns again. Like the criminals that do this stuff are going to care! It only persecutes the law abiding gun owner that has their semi auto taken away because of a nutter with a full auto.
Class III firearms (including fully automatic) are permitted in Nevada.
When I saw the news this morning there was only two confirmed deaths. When I saw the footage and heard the amount of rounds being fired it was obvious that figure was going to rise. Tragic.
It only takes one disgruntled person with access to firearms, plus of course military style stuff will cause many more casualties.
I have family and friends in the US and this is part and parcel of the right to bear arms.
The fact is that there are so many guns in the US now that if I lived there I would have one too.
The situation will never change, America loves its guns.
Given the same freedom to own weapons for normal civilians in the UK don't kid yourself it would be any different here.
We had gun massacres before they were banned.
Cheers,
Neil.
Reuters saying that he converted to Islam in the prior few months, isis claiming responsibility. Regardless of the circumstances, absolutely terrible.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Isis would claim a fart in the wind if the idiots could.
I beg to differ. Like probably a fair number of people on here, I enjoy clay pigeon shooting. I've a cabinet at home with a large number of shotguns in it, some of which are semi-auto (admittedly limited to just three cartridges) and I have a good quantity of ammunition.
The law over here states that unless there's a good reason for you not to have a shotgun certificate, you'll be issued one. (Incidentally, not the same with a full firearms cert - that's a bit more difficult.)
And I absolutely know that a semi- or full-auto assault rifle is a very different thing than a shotgun.
Nevertheless, I have a cabinet of lethality in my house, as do something like three-quarters of a million others in the UK. That's a shedload of guns, which surely means that we should be having lots of shooting in the UK, right? Except no, not really.
The real difference is that over here we see guns as a sporting thing, something to break a clay with or to go hunting. Alternatively we see them as vermin control - a silenced .22 will see off a lot of rabbits. What we don't see them as is some sort of symbol of of manhood or an extension of our political views.
I believe that the aussies tightened up gun control and had a few gun amnesties after a mass shooting over there and that both measures have since proven to have been effective.
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
On a point of technicality, Reuters are reporting that the ISIS news agency is reporting that he converted to Islam:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa...-idUKKCN1C71SF
Indeed they would. In the same way the fundamentalist Christians claim that Hurricane Harvey was caused by two well-groomed men holding hands.
I understand gun ownership in Canada is higher per head of population than the USA, but the murdering of people with guns is massively lower as a percentage of population.
How do you explain that ?
What is so especially evil/sick about the USA gun owning population ?
Doing a bit of checking Iraq is the only country in the world with more gun deaths per 100,000 people.
Male deaths:
Iraq 11.8
USA 6.3
Canada 0.8
UK 0.2
Last edited by BadgerUK; 2nd October 2017 at 15:42.
Exactly, and many other States...
They're not widespread or sold in your local gunshop, but if you want to get hold of full automatic weapons in many states, it's legally not that difficult.
Most states do not provide additional restrictions on top of Federal requirements to own automatic weapons. It’s actually shorter to list the states which restrict NFA weapons:
CA, DE, DC, HI, IL, MA, MN, NJ, RI, WA, WI
M
I've just had a better look into it and it's not exactly easy for joe public to get them legally, unless a dealer etc.
There was a ban on any new fully autos being sold to regular public from 1986. It seems you can buy old fully autos but they are now many thousands of pounds (SA AR15 being $900 and a FA AR15 being $15,000 according to a source explaining the situation on YT)
Trouble is there's so many ways round things if you want to kill people and it's not rocket science to convert a SA to FA.
If people want to kill people with guns are they likely to hand their guns in if America 'banned guns' tomorrow.
All you'd have is all the law abiding without their sporting guns and all the nutters/criminals keeping theirs. There's so many guns in the us I can't imagine a total ban would effect the criminals that are willing to do bad with them. Would just mean someone making more money selling dodgy guns.
Sort of reminds me of the logic to this country when the law give thieving scum a driving ban for stealing a car and driving recklessly. That should stop them doing it again and provide a deterrent for other scum willing to do such things.
I don't know what the answer is really but you can't legislate against someone's feelings, the dangerous thing is the person wanting to kill people. Bloke could have launched dozens of firebombs into the crowd or anything.
I’ve been in Vegas for the past 8 days and flew back a couple of hours before the shooting started, what an awful headline to see when you land after a holiday of a lifetime 😢
As a “Brit” in Vegas I did the Machine Guns Las Vegas package on Wednesday morning and now unpacking and seeing the targets my Wife and I shot I feel sick, it’s all fun and games until something like this happens which is a LOT in the US.
We were at the Mandalay the other evening watching the Michael Jackson One show and to think this lunatic was walking the same corridors as us scares the life out of me! Was this always his plan and could he have turned on the thousands exiting a show and in the casino!
I for one am glad to be back in peaceful Wales and my heart goes out to all the people affected by this nutters actions, I do hope we get some closure on why he did it.
Yes, machine guns are legal under Nevada state law:
The weapons Stephen Paddock used to unleash death on concertgoers in Las Vegas Sunday night could have been readily acquired in Nevada, which has some of the most lax gun laws in the country.
Gun owners in Nevada don't need a permit to buy or possess a rifle, shotgun or handgun in Nevada, according to the National Rifle Association. State law also allows gun owners to openly carry a firearm in public and purchase machine guns or silencers, banned in other states, as long as they're legally registered and within federal compliance.
Edit Las Vegas shooter may have used trigger crank:
The speed, pattern and inconsistent rate of gunfire heard in videos of the Las Vegas shooting indicate the suspect could have used cheap and legal modification devices to accelerate the firing of a semi-automatic weapon to almost 700 rounds a minute.
And the kinds of devices that would make that possible are readily available — relatively cheaply on the internet — even to people who can't qualify to buy an automatic weapon.
Last edited by PickleB; 2nd October 2017 at 19:38.
Something like this https://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/gu...rly-full-auto/
What is the purpose of that device?? Other than to cause massive damage.
Extremely sad news.
The device, of itself, is harmless. But it does allow the owner of a firearm to evade "the onerous NFA licensing process". As ever, it's the owners that are the most dangerous and, yes, the device does allow them to up their potential to cause damage.
But what is the point of it other than to cause mayhem. Can it be used for something else?
What's the purpose of a gun? To shoot stuff.
This means you can do it faster.
It's all pointless but someone's hobby I suppose.
Not as far a I know.
There are hobbies and then...gunman may have used special device to fire faster:
Paddock could have used a Hellfire or a bump-fire device, which attach to normal semi-automatic rifles and allow them to fire more rapidly, Ayoob said. These devices are legal, but rarely used by serious shooters, he said.
“It’s hard to shoot accurately with them, and serious shooters want accuracy,” he said. He called them “not terribly popular” and “something a gun geek would want”.
For the Las Vegas shooter, though, the accuracy of these devices would not have mattered, since he was “hosing a two-acre area with 30,000 targets,” nearly every shot he fired would have hit someone.
On its website, Bump Fire Systems advertises the device as permitting “simulated full-auto firing” that is “absolutely legal”. It sells Bump Fire stocks for $99.99.
The Hellfire system uses a hand-operated crank to hit the trigger of the gun more rapidly than a person could fire it, Ayoob said, which could explain apparent changes in the pace of the fire.
Ayoob said he knew of only one previous incident in which a legally owned fully automatic gun was used in a murder. When fully automatic guns do show up in crimes, they have often been stolen, he said.
But I'm sure the NRA would protest any move to regulate their sale / ownership...
There is no reason why any shooting enthusiast would want a fully automatic rifle. They should be banned in the USA.
And I beg to differ.
You know darn well that I was referring to semi auto and full auto weapons and pistols but you seem to have moved this over to shotguns.
I fully believe that if we had the same access to guns in this country we would indeed have the same massacres, we have similar loonies here, we are not holier than Americans.
Regarding gun massacres in this country, remember Michael Ryan and Thomas Hamilton? Those are the reasons firearms were more or less prohibited in this country but still some moan about lack of access to serious weaponry.
People often state that with a weapons embargo criminals can still get guns whilst law abiding people can't.
It is my contention that we have more to fear from "law abiding" people, like Paddock, like Ryan and like Hamilton with guns than criminals.
Cheers,
Neil.
Indeed, you are right Dave.
Cheers,
Neil.
i moved the conversation to shotguns because that is, predominantly, what’s available in the UK. A shotgun is still totally lethal though.
My point is that although we in the UK don’t have access to weaponry which would enable us to kill as many people as quickly as the average American, you’re just arguing there about quantities, not the impulse to kill in the first place. It’s not that we’re ‘holier’ than the Americans, more that we simply don’t have the same emotional and psychological attachment to guns.
I’m a really keen shooter, but if the government banned my guns I’d grumble a bit but then hand them in. There’d be a very different reaction in the States from the NRA crew
Last edited by Longblackcoat; 3rd October 2017 at 17:40.
How much do we really have to fear in the UK from people with legal guns?
Look at the facts. Less people died in the 'mass shootings' in the last 30 years than in Vegas.
The number who died don't come close to those killed in a week in road accidents or around the house!
Or who drown in the sea in a year for that matter.
There really isn't much evidence that letting private individuals own guns (especially if the rules and safeguards are properly applied) increases the risks to the public by any appreciable amount.
It does though let politicians look like they're doing something about law and order whilst cutting funding for the Police and letting prisons become no go areas for the officers...
Sure if we had unfettered access like in the US we would have more cases, but we didn't ever have that and would probably not move to such a scenario.
M
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Last edited by snowman; 3rd October 2017 at 19:19.
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Yes, there is evidence:
Five reasons US gun laws don't change:
Perhaps the single biggest obstacle to new gun-control laws at the national level is that opponents tend to hold fiercely to their beliefs, while support for new regulation tends to ebb and flow around each new instance of violence.
The NRA's strategy, and that of pro-gun politicians, is to wait out the storm - to delay legislative efforts until attention turns elsewhere and the outcry fades.
Pro-gun politicians offer their thoughts and prayers, observe moments of silence and order flags flown half-staff. Then, in the quiet, legislative efforts are deferred and ultimately derailed.
On Monday, White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders told reporters "there's a time and place for a political debate, but now is the time to unite as a country".
Mr Trump, in comments as he left the White House for Puerto Rico, said "we will be talking about gun laws as time goes by".
As time goes by. As that song from the film Casablanca says, it's still the same old story.
Apparently he was using bump-stocks, eg:
Link: "The stocks have been around for less than a decade, and Schneider said officials determined they were legal."
Last edited by PickleB; 4th October 2017 at 07:41.
As time goes by Trump has completely changed his view on the matter of gun control, coincidentally when he began his bid for the Republican Presidential nomination.
From being held with suspicion by the NRA his volte-face resulted in gaining their support - along with a $33m donation to support his presidential campaign.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Stephen Paddock...bought 33 guns in the last 12 months, a federal official said Wednesday.
He was found dead in the 32 floor hotel room by the responding SWAT team.
But.... are we sure he did all the shooting?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRjLIzNSRoE
^
Yes, unless you’re a complete imbecile.
You, I and many others know that its stuff like that which helps keeps the NRA stranglehold on US politics, there's always a conspiracy theory.
Last edited by number2; 4th October 2017 at 17:43.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
^^^^^^^^^^
And so, in the meantime, Bump stocks sell out across US:
The devices are sold out or temporarily unavailable from all the largest gun and ammunition retailers in the US, as fear of an impending ban has sent many gun enthusiasts hoarding.
“Will I be able to order sometime soon? I want to get one before there is a push to make them illegal,” one commenter posted on the Facebook page of Bump Fire Systems, one of three major US manufacturers of the devices. The company’s website had been down for more than two days citing “high traffic volume”.
“I ordered mines [sic] the night the mass shootings happened. I hope I still get it,” another wrote.
“I don’t even have the gun for it, but I want the stock just to have it down the line,” said Pennsylvania gun owner Zack Cernok, according to the New York Times. “I just like the idea of them and want to see how it feels and if it’s worth it – for $100, it’s almost not a bad investment to buy it, try it out and sell it if I don’t like it.”
Where is the :roll: smilie when you need it..
Fas est ab hoste doceri
I expect Zack will get great pleasure from it.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
ICYMI
LINKBritish soldiers ran towards danger to help victims of Las Vegas shooting
Six British soldiers have described their efforts to save lives during Sunday's Las Vegas massacre.
The troops from 1st The Queen's Dragoon Guards were enjoying a short break from training in the desert when the shooting erupted.
They ran towards the danger, shepherding people to safety and administering first aid to those trying to escape the gunfire.
They had been in hotels close to the Mandalay Bay, from where Steven Paddock opened fire on festivalgoers below.
Trooper Ross Woodward told Sky News: "It is a decision that will live with me for the rest of my life but I would do the same thing again."
The 23-year-old from Nottingham described trying to save a man with a gunshot wound to his back. The man died.
"It was quite tough and I know it is a cliche but the training does kick in, it became second nature.
"It was just chaos and panic and people needed my help and I just did what I could do."
Trooper Chris May, 24, from Bognor Regis, said: "I feel that any British Army soldier who was in the same position being so close would have done exactly the same.
Fas est ab hoste doceri
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