Reply With QuoteI’m a trust specialist. Sorry to hear about your grandfather’s situation and also sorry to bear bad news. It is too late for him to put his assets in trust with the objective of alienating means testing.Originally Posted by R0bertb00th
My grandfather is late 80s and not in the best of health and having lost my grandmother suddenly I am assisting him as best as I can to deal with the grief and support him during this tough time, Ive taken a month off to help him and in the short term Im paying a (friend of the family - retired carer) to visit 3 days a week and Im doing the rest, however its taking its toll and with a job of my own to hold down and a young family of my own Im not able to look after him long term and cant call on other family to help as they are not local.
As such Im torn as to what to do - he cant move in with us we rent and his place is only a 1 bed so we cant move in with him as theres no space, long term the carer cant commit past xmas and so despite me not wanting to do so Im thinking a care homes... however the costs astound me average is £800 a week but thats the worlds we live in I guess.
My worry is that I cant see no other option and once his limited savings run out the rest of the costs will come from his estate, one that he has worked hard all of his life to achieve.
Has anyone else had a similar experience, what did you do, is there a way around the government taking his estate (Maybe putting property in trust) etc etc
In an ideal world Id sell his property and put it towards my own savings and buy a place and have him come with us but ive no idea where or how that would happen certainly not in the short term anyway
Any thoughts would be appreciated
Last edited by R0bertb00th; 28th September 2017 at 09:58.
I’m a trust specialist. Sorry to hear about your grandfather’s situation and also sorry to bear bad news. It is too late for him to put his assets in trust with the objective of alienating means testing.
Have you got the Local Authority involved yet?
R
Edit: this might help: http://www.payingforcare.org
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Thanks for the replies, no I havent got anyone involved as yet, is this something I should be doing?
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Why is it too late out of interest?
Yes, absolutely.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
My wife avec mother-in-law are close to the same sort of situation.
MIL is trying to cope with living in a council flat but it's not really working. She's VERY immobile - can't even get down the front door step - so she's finding it really hard. My wife and sister are doing just about everything now including shopping, cleaning, washing, etc... IMHO I think she should have been in a care home a year ago but they've really worked hard to enable her to stay in her flat for the last 12 months but I think the times come to face the realities. She went in a care home for some respite a few weeks ago. The authorities would only pay up to £500 per week but all of these 'cheap' care homes are really NOT NICE PLACES!! I'm talking thread bare sticky carpets or ripped lino. Mashed tasteless food. Small rooms needing repair etc... etc... So we paid the 'upgrade' to a better home but that meant stumping up the extra £300 per week. Okay, for £800 pw it was okay. Nice staff. Okay food. Clean nice rooms etc...
So we've been looking at longer term care home options. Basically the authorities will only pay up to £500 per week and even then only after personal funds have been used up. So the only option is you start privately with a nice care home (c. £800 pw) until savings all gone. Then get transferred by the authorities to a cheaper, nastier, establishment which they'll pay for :-(
So one thing I've learnt from all of this (which has been going on for at least a year now) is when you reach the stage where you have to go in a home, unless you're rich enough to afford the £800 pw (or equivalent in years to come) then my advice is get a taxi to the local high building/bridge and jump off! Seriously :-(
you need to get a care plan in place or at least assessed , i have been through something similar with my parents and grandparents and it is very hard work and soul destroying and i had the help of my wife being a very high up bod at the DWP for advice . You will be well aware they remain quite independent minded generally too and very demanding
My mother had to go into a care homefor reasons different to your case. We took the trouble to find a good one and the service was very good (should have been for the cost).
However, what i noticed was that once in a care home her condition started to deteriorate and this seemed to be because of the politics of the other residents and the different states of their health. I found it a depressing state of affairs and would advise anyone to avoid care homes if at all possible.
Can you source a warden controlled environment where your grandad still has his personal freedom but there is someone on hand to assist of needed?
Lots of good advice and some quite depressing but thats the reality I suppose - Plenty of food for thought and some further research to be done
Jeez, at those prices it's no wonder some oldies prefer to go on a long cruise.
More or less the same situation here in Holland, money-wise and care-wise.
My father went to an elderly home and quickly moved to the psycho-geriatric part of the building: Alzheimer. With these old people you have to prepare for the worst. Even if it costs them money. My father (i.e. I, myself) had to pay for it from his own pocket. I gladly did because the people working there gave my father lots of attention and were the best for him during the last part of his life (I don't live close and I don't have any other family left).
He passed away in 2008. Up until this day I am convinced that I made the right decisions for him and that he would approve them.
Menno
Sobering stuff. I hope you find a solution that works for your dad.
Those prices don't help when you are effectively subsidising the state too - they get discounts and you get increase cost.
https://www.localgov.co.uk/Care-home...tay-open/42416
My wife's mother and farther plus my own mother are all now in their mid 90's, my wife's parents both have early stage Alzheimer's and my mother is unable to walk more than a couple of steps but otherwise is as sharp as a tack. They are all still living in their own homes and in both cases the local authorities (urban and rural) have been brilliant and are currently providing four carer visits a day which make their independent living possible (but only just). The local authorities also helped install stair lifts, response alarms, and other bits of kit to help with mobility etc.
As a previous post said you should get in touch with the local authorities as soon as possible to get an assessment made and an appropriate level of care set up. One obvious thing is that you should be there to "help" answer the assessment questions since I know if you ask my mother how she copes she will say "fine, no problem at all" without realising all the work from my sister and the carers that is needed to make things possible. Obviously if the local authorities are told that everything is fine you don't get the assistance that is likely to be needed.
On the tying up of assets the rule is usually one of "intentional deprivation" which means that if you knew that care from the local authorities would be needed at the point when assets were transferred you are intentionally depriving the local authority of access to the assets; whereas, with certain provisos, if you transfer ahead of any awareness or specific diagnosis then different rules will apply.
In Scotland where I live the position is slightly different from the rest of the UK but have a look on the following UK websites for some more guidance
http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-car...idential-care/
When we enquired about possible homes for both sets of parents it seemed to be if there were assets available (family home, life savings, etc) you could get places fairly easily in some very nice homes. However if you were reliant on financial assistance from the local authority then there were long waiting lists at the better homes; I'm assuming that they all have limited places available for assisted placements but can nearly always find a place if you are self funded. The situation becomes even more complicated if medical care as well as personal care is required.
Hope that helps, these situations are never easy.
regards
grant
[QUOTE=GRK;4507821
One obvious thing is that you should be there to "help" answer the assessment questions since I know if you ask my mother how she copes she will say "fine, no problem at all" without realising all the work from my sister and the carers that is needed to make things possible. Obviously if the local authorities are told that everything is fine you don't get the assistance that is likely to be needed.
This paragraph strikes a chord as thats what I face most days when we attend drs or the like he says Im fine but then as soon as we leave he would say he is in pain or unable to do simple tasks etc..... all of which he cant without the support in the background
Its a heart breaking situation but I take comfort knowing others are in the same boat and have found support via appropriate channels
Thanks T-Z
My parents (93 and 88 years old) live in their own home, adapted for their needs at their own expense, but have twice daily care visits. Dad had a couple of weeks of respite care in a home, went home for one night, had a fall the following day which put him in hospital, and was then transferred back to the same home that he was in for the respite care. He's had that one night in his own bed since the 22nd of July.
There comes a point in your life where the roles of children and parents become reversed, and you become responsible for your parents.
We have found that the local authority have been excellent, and have helped and guided us. Their own GP is, apparently, known locally to the care providers as not being particularly user-friendly, possibly because he's the senior partner in the practice, and old people are expensive. However, most of the elderly care needs are organised and funded separately, so we've largely been able to sidestep him. Regular nurse visits are organised through the GP's practice though.
Fortunately, my sister and I have Powers of Attorney, because neither Mum nor Dad are capable of dealing with everyday matters, and have been victims of fraudsters on a couple of occasions, although we have managed to recover almost all of their losses.
I would advise anybody with elderly parents who are still in possession of most of their marbles to raise the suggestion of giving Powers of Attorney. They have certainly made life easier for my sister and I. If we hadn't had them in place, we would have had to apply via the Courts, which is cumbersome and time-consuming at a point where decisions may need to be made quickly.
Sorry for the thread drift but what would be the situation with a husband and wife if one suddenly needed to go into a care home?
Would a trust / trusts help in this situation to protect the person not in a home?
A long shot, are there any family/relatives that are Freemasons? If yes there are Masonic Trusts that can help for elderly care when in financial difficulty.
I've just been to see a long term supplier today and his mum and dad are in care homes , one is terminally Ill whilst the under is sectioned under mental health issues and they get full allowance for care of £450 ish a week and he is paying about £2k a month out on top so it can get quite interesting on the cost side
What would the situation be if a couple states in their will that on death they left everything (barring house) to their children.
In the event of the survivor requiring care, would the children be liable for care costs if the estate of the first parent to die bypassed their spouse to the kids?
Would the council be able to force them to sell, but not pursue other asserts from the original estate?
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I honestly feel great sympathy for you, my mum is 86, and I always have this thought lingering at the back of my mind..
Get a care plan in place see what they offer, my father gets 2 visits a day to help my mum shower him and do his physio. But it has to be topped but the used up saving fast, so now I am helping and paying out some.
Costs can mount up alot if you want day care once or twice a week, have just got a grant to put in a wet room for my father but that only covers about half so will still need to pay out a few thousand myself.
I also found a support group was of great help for my mother and for me, getting information from people who have been there and done it can often tell you of local places that can help.
My main concern now is will there be enough money left to support my mother and let her enjoy her life.
Have you considered sheltered housing?
It exists to keep older people as independent as possible.
Tenants are needs assessed at entry and pay a basic rent plus facilities service charge (communal upkeep and lighting, alarm service and activity monitoring plus managers on site), combined it comes to around 450-500 per month and people can either self fund or apply for HBen.
Post needs assessment they're referred to the local authority for a care package to support them as required.
Far less depressing than care homes and still maintains independence.
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