Reply With QuoteVested interests who have hated the competition.
Seen this on the news, quite a big story in regards to this type of company now being effectively stopped from trading in one of their most profitable markets, is this a sign of things to come, or will it just be a temporary issue for Uber and companies like them?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-41358640
Vested interests who have hated the competition.
Good. A classic example of profits before customers.
Yup. Time the gig economy was brought under control. There's moonlighting for a few hours, and there's taking the whatsit. Thousands of jobs Uber claims. Well, if you're proud of them make them proper jobs with a steady wage people can raise a family on.Originally Posted by Slamdoor
It's a tactic for TfL to try to clip the wings of Uber. As I am sure TfL knew, Uber immediately appealed the decision through the courts, this will allow them to continue to operate whilst the case is fought.
Now if the government had the balls to make zero hours contracts illegal this move might be worth something
For 21 days!
Rubbish.
As a customer I can tell you they are great. This is bureaucratic insanity and vested interests getting their way at their worst.
Last edited by markrlondon; 22nd September 2017 at 14:41.
Why stop flexibility in the market and block people who want to work from working ?
Why not have the amount of work a person does directly related to how much they earn ?
The Uber model seems brilliant to me, it delivers a top value service, that carries no fat/waste.
The drivers are paid for working, if they don't work they don't get paid.
Why do you want to put people out of work? The beauty of Uber is that people work when they want to and as much as they want to. This is surely a good way to do business for all concerned.
I've looked into becoming an Uber driver and it seems like a good idea to me.
As a customer in London, I have had largely good experiences. In my experience, they offer better (especially more consistently reliable) service than minicabs at a competitive price.
But that would not be economically viable. How can Uber guarantee full time employment? So you'd rather people lose their Uber gigs entirely? That would be absurdly counter-productive, as you must surely know and understand.
And if, in your fantastical world, Uber must guarantee full time employment, then why should all the other minicab firms in London be any different? They too should surely have to offer the same (economically impossible) terms.
Sure, there are ways that the gig economy need to be improved but to wipe it out, as you explicitly intend, is surely hugely damaging to the millions who earn money through it.
Last edited by markrlondon; 22nd September 2017 at 14:30.
According to the BBC article linked above, "TfL's concerns include Uber's approach to carrying out background checks on drivers and reporting serious criminal offences."
This is very odd, however, since is it is TFL who are responsible for regulating minicab drivers in London, and Uber are minicab drivers, just the same as drivers for any other minicab firm. One therefore wonders what is wrong with Uber's "approach". Either minicab drivers are properly licensed (licensed by TFL) or they are not.
As for reporting serious criminal offences, one wonders what this means. I note that customers may report serious offences direct to TFL.
The article goes on to state: "But the courts will have to balance that with the serious concerns about public safety raised by TfL."
But I am dubious of the reality of any "serious concerns about public safety". One is prompted to ask: Who regulates TFL and are they a fit and proper organisation to be regulating others.
My experience of Uber has been very positive.
Good
40,000 cars clogging up the city is over half the congestion in London, get rid of them and get back to just black cabs, tube and bus all of which are great. Yes people will need to plan a little in advance and yes it might take a little longer to find a cab but when you do get in it then you should save that time without the enthusiastic amateurs relying on satnav clogging up the area.
RIAC
Never had a problem with Uber to date. Very convenient and cheaper than a mini cab. Whenever I've asked them the drivers always seem happy with their lot too. Obviously there is a lot of politics, unions and pressure groups all tied up in this.
Don't be silly. First of all, that's 40,000 in total Uber drivers, not 40,000 on the road all at the same time.
More significantly though, if there was demand for however many Uber cars were on the road at any one time then that demand will not magically go away. It will be taken up by other modes of transport, such as other minicabs.
And if those Uber cars really do cause congestion then, just as much, so do all the other minicabs operating on London's roads (many of which are now using similar apps to Uber), so do all the other black cabs, and so do all the other buses.
(a) This is the same as every other minicab firm out there. There are hundreds, possibly thousands, of minicab firms in London. They employ people on the same basis, with the same licensing requirements, as Uber.
(b) In my experience, Uber drivers have been professional and knowledgeable, no worse a standard than black cab drivers but at a more competitive cost.
Overall, the demand is there for all these firms and drivers and they won't magically go away if Uber is banned. All those drivers will move to other flexible and forward-looking minicab firms.
In short, the "gridlock" argument is a rubbish argument that does not hold water, as is the "amateur" argument.
Last edited by markrlondon; 22nd September 2017 at 16:15.
In particular, anti-Uber unions seem intent on putting a lot of Uber drivers out of work. So much for supporting workers.
Uber is great for the punters. Not so much for the drivers. How many on here who love Uber would still use them if they were as or more expensive than black cabs? Not many I should think.
The reality of being an uber driver is that about 50% of your takings is eaten up in running costs. 25% to uber alone.
My experience with Uber has been fairly positive (and to be honest, I can't remember most of the trips - blame the beer) but there are a couple that stand out.
1. Journey to Brixton
This driver was a hardcore Christian fanatic from the word go, so much so that I almost go out about five minutes into the journey. If it wasn't pissing with rain I would have done.
2. Journey to Clapham
This driver did not understand a single word of English. We asked that he stop at a number of supermarkets and a cashpoint. There was easy parking for him to pull up at each opportunity but he completely ignored us. Finally we tried to give him directions to the destination but he drove directly to the pinpoint and demanded that we get out of his car.
3. Journey from Euston
This chap proudly proclaimed that this was his first shift as an Uber driver and he was very keen to talk about it, which was fine. I wouldn't have minded if he didn't skip red lights, mount kerbs, rather dangerously change lane with reckless abandon and cut across roundabouts.
In comparison, every single black cab I have taken in recent times i'm sure has intentionally tried to rip me off and most of the drivers have been borderline racist, sexist and have an alarming tendency to blather on about bloody football.
People say this but I've met a lot of Uber drivers as a customer and all the ones I've met seem to like it. I ask all my drivers what they think and I have yet to hear a negative opinion.
So where are these coerced Uber drivers who feel that they are not being properly remunerated and yet still keep on doing it?
Well, of course not. But in reality they are cheaper.
All businesses have overheads and that rate seems unsurprising and quite reasonable. It might be informative to compare it against the rates available from other minicab firms.
I am happy to use them as a 6'2" male I am not so sure I would use them as a single woman.
An Uber driver without sat Nav could not navigate London. Period
Instagram @blowersmayfair
RIAC
The Uber app has a method of making a complaint but you can also complain direct to TFL or the police if you wish: https://tfl.gov.uk/help-and-contact/...d-private-hire
Now is the time to pick up a cheap Toyota Prius in London.
Ah, over-generalisations.
I'm not going to generalise but I can tell you that, in my experience, I've met a number of Uber drivers who certainly didn't need satnav. They could navigate entirely successfully and with several shortcuts without satnav.
And what's wrong with satnav anyway? Are you a luddite who despises all technological progress? Satnav often works well in my experience, especially where it has traffic updates such that it can plot non-obvious routes that even a black cab driver would not be able to calculate purely from experience.
Don't forget David Perry and John Worboys were supposedly "safe" black cab drivers, not Uber.
How about other minicab firms? They are all regulated on the same basis.
I haven't needed Uber in the UK, as I rarely need a taxi here. However, in the States I have used them and found them to be excellent and a lot cheaper than the normal cab service over there. If I needed a cab here, I would deffo use Uber. Its a shame if they are stopped from trading as they offer a comparable service to black cabs or private hire, at a better cost to the end user.
Stuart
Just to add: It's worth noting that in London, at least, Uber is a private hire (i.e. minicab) company. They and all their drivers work within the same terms and regulatory framework as every other minicab (private hire) firm.
As others have said, unfortunately it is all about vested interests. Black cab drivers have protested against Uber in the past using one excuse or another. Simple reason is many of them just don't want competition.
Most weeks I am abroad somewhere in Europe, Middle East and Africa.
In pretty much every city other than London the cab drivers use SatNav, in fact in some instances I have just passed them my iPhone and they follow that. Getting a taxi in London is easy enough, but not quite so easy if you're visiting Cairo, Beirut or St Petersburg. Uber lets you bypass the majority of those problems.
Impressive as The Knowledge is, I can't help thinking it is somewhat a relic of a bygone age and little more than a restriction on trade.
Great so now I am limited to listening to the racist dirge from Essex old-boys on the way home in a black cab at twice the price.
Here's hoping the appeal succeeds
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Addison Lee has an app too I've noticed but it seems that they too, a very longstanding London minicab firm, are waiting on a licensing decision!
I love the "an Uber driver couldn't navigate without satnav" rhetoric, its adorable in its outdatedness.
Any decent navigation solution maps congestion and if route A is clogged full of traffic, will take you by the longer-but-potentially-quicker unclogged route B. The fact is if everyone used something like Waze, traffic would move faster.
The Knowledge was appropriate for the time, and was the best solution. However there is a reason we're not still using horses as a primary transport method.
Exactly! "The Knowledge" reasoning is mostly nonsense these days. I use Waze or Google Maps all the time even when I know my way around. That is the only reliable way of knowing which roads are clogged up and hence to be avoided at any given point in time. I have had built-in satnavs in my cars for some years now but I choose not to use them as they haven't been very good at avoiding traffic and re-routing. I am happy with using the apps on my phone's much smaller screen instead as it saves me time, particularly around London. So for me a cab driver using satnav is a very good thing.
I would not want my wife coming home in anything but a black cab.
Built-in satnav systems are of old, and simple run a "shortest route" algorithm from point A to point B, while using as much M and A road mileage as possible.
The ideal solution in cities for people who truly have the interest of transport at heart, is to allow only automous vehicles for road traffic - which I expect will happen in my lifetime (I'm 28). If you have a network of interconnected vehicles that know where they are, where every other car is, and where they are all headed to, you will have the most efficient use of every road. This is usually too inconvenient a truth for the (ironically) "pro-Knowledge" folks.
I just dont see how 'Autonomous' vehicles will work, how are they going to cope with cyclists, give a cyclist 6 inches in london and they will be in the space.
Well mine allows configuring whether I want the shortest route, the fastest route and also what type of roads to avoid (if any). It also has TMS so in theory should know about traffic and work accordingly. In reality it doesn't work very well and when it does occasionally get a congestion alert and tries to re-route, it is too late. This and the ridiculous constantly moving ETAs were the issues that pushed me towards using the phone despite the dangling charging cable that I hate.
Back on topic though ... I also hope Uber wins the appeal.
Quite a generalisation on my part. Not too surprised to hear about your experience with them. I also laud them for the cost of upkeep - change of road layout in the city? That'll be hundreds for a one-off update. Whereas Waze or Google Maps will just update live.
I genuinely hope she (or anyone else for that matter) never encounters the likes of the 2 black cab drivers I named above.
Agreed. Ridiculous cost to update the maps especially now that they have moved away from DVD to built-in hard drive. Better in terms of tech but now they get to charge labour too!
This is where machine learning and AI comes into it -- learning how to dynamically recognise and work with and around other road users. This sort of thing isn't easy and is why the technology is still being developed and is not yet is normal, mainstream use. It's coming though.
Last edited by markrlondon; 22nd September 2017 at 16:50.
Given that some current citysafe systems can already recognise pedestrians and cyclists it's not too much of a leap to see how radar and gps technology will be able to happily cope.
What I think will be difficult will be to cope with the situation (e.g. passing parked cars in a narrow street) where one driver signals to another to proceed (either by 'flashing' or hand gesture). Hopefully they'll be able to communicate between themselves somehow and if one vehicle is human driven I suspect that will take priority.
Radar technology already copes very well with these. I use my adaptive cruise control/queue assist in city driving and not just faster roads. Help me in avoiding constantly alternating between brake and accelerator pedals. It slows down for cyclists perfectly fine. The parking sensors and reverse traffic detection sense pedestrians, bikes, everything not just directly in front and behind the car but also objects approaching from the sides.
MarkrLondon is Uber and I claim my £10............ yay!! Either that or you have a shed load of shares in them, just saying like.
;-)
Just a mostly satisfied customer.
No other connection to them. No shares. :-)
As a consumer, I applaud innovation and competition in general.
I use satnav but when there’s a problem it doesn’t know and the knowledge is essential to adapt on the move. I’ve met some amazing black cab drivers who will always know the options
RIAC
I too have met some amazing minicab drivers who will always know the options.
The time is long past that The Knowledge guarantees anything special that others cannot learn to the extent necessary to do their chosen job well.
Last edited by markrlondon; 22nd September 2017 at 17:37.
I've been an Uber driver Mark and I can tell you it's not as rosy as you seem to think it is. I've gone back to working for a taxi company where I can still work whatever hours/days I want but with a fixed fee. If I earn a grand in a week I'm only paying them 11% compared to 25% for Uber.
Maybe surging takes place far more often on London which would help to bump up the drivers earnings but when I tried it in Cardiff, it was fairly quiet work wise when prices were surging.
I think 50% overheads are staggeringly high for running a taxi. We are not talking about a bricks and mortar business here.
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