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Thread: Diamonds

  1. #1
    Craftsman
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    Diamonds

    I'm in the market for an engagement ring and we're going down the buy a stone and get it set route.

    We had a look at stones today and have basically chosen but thought I'd finalize just what I'm after first before I send emails round to the various hatton gardens dealers and search blue nile.

    So we're looking for a 1 carat round brilliant. Looking at colour today we couldn't tell much difference between a D and G (a sure cringe for anyone in the business!) so happy going with G. For clarity we didn't have a close look but even an SL2 looked fine on the rings, will certainly pay more attention to this when I come to buy.

    The part we were looking to pay up for was the cut, looking for Excellent.

    Does this seem like a sensible strategy? Should we pay more attention to colour or clarity at the expense of cut? Just looking for any general experience on the issue.

    My budget is fairly flexible so can improve on any part overall. But would obviously be happy paying less or getting a slightly bigger stone within budget if I can, rather than pay up for a clarity/colour/cut improvement we'd never notice.

    Any other questions I should be asking that I've missed also please let me know!

    Cheers.

  2. #2

  3. #3
    Craftsman
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    Thanks I did read that and it vastly helped, along with a very helpful pm from kevkojak. Didn't want to bump another thread with these separate questions so thought I'd make this one.

    Really just thinking out loud and making sure I cover all the bases. Always so much more to know about these kind of things than it initially seems so don't want to have my pants pulled down!

  4. #4
    Master
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    1 carat = lucky girl. No doubt after splashing out like that you can get yourself a nice timepiece, guilt free.


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  5. #5
    Craftsman
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    I have just been through this process my self, initially I knew very little about diamonds but after a few weeks going back and forth looking at various diamonds I now know roughly what to look in simple terms.
    I was also looking for a one carat ring (total carat weight) and had a platinum setting in mind which had 0.32 carats in it so I only needed something like a 0.7carat round centre stone.

    Having tried loads of jewellers up and down the country (Hatton garden, Birmingham jewellery quarter, local shops etc) I found BlueNile to have the best choice and diamond for my budget, Hatton garden wasn't far behind.
    In the end I settled for a VVS1 0.7c stone, it has excellent cut, symmetry and polish plus no fluorescense so overall a really clean stone with a table and dept of 58%/62%.
    Its an 'I' in colour but due to the cut etc it does appear very similar to some of the other G or H I had seen which were of less quality.

    Initially I was set one something like a G stone but when you look in person and start researching the cut etc plus fluorescent a 'lower' colour can still look very nice and being a VVS stone it inclusions you would not see by eye.

    The main thing I would look for is a GIA stone as others are not accurate, it might tell you the stone is a 'G' for example but on a GIA it could be an I.
    GIA is what I went for.

    The company I used for the setting was very reasonable, much cheaper than elsewhere so if you are in the market for one let me know and I can pass on their contact details.

  6. #6
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    I also went through the same process a couple of years ago and did my research into diamonds, but I'm no expert.

    My first bit of advice before you buy is not to be tight and be generous with your budget. I'm not saying spend beyond your means but if it does mean sacrificing some luxuries for a while do it because they will be wearing this ring for life!

    I decided to go for a 0.75 carat diamond rather than a 1.0 carat diamond and by doing this I increased the quality of the colour, clarity and cut of the diamond. I ended up with a VVS1 clarity, G colour and a very good princess cut. My understanding is the better the clarity and cut of a diamond, it allows the light to travel through the diamond which gives it the sparkle.

    So my second bit of advice is reduce the size of the diamond to improve the quality! There is no point having a large diamond if it is poor quality.

  7. #7
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    Diamonds

    My 2 Penney’s worth

    Decide on a budget and work backwards

    Try and make all the desciding factors of equal importance

    Ie don’t get a D colour diamond that’s Si2 clarity instead get a G VS1

    No one feature is more important than the other they all have a part to play

    And the single most important piece of advice is unless it’s a GIA diamond (maybe HRD) take no notice of what the certificate says as it’s will almost certainly be overly generous in areas and in some cases bordering on fantasy

    I have been selling diamond rings for 30years and would happily buy my wife a G VS GIA stone, however there is much much more to it than that
    Cut
    Clarity
    Fluorescence
    Extra facets
    Chips
    Polish
    Symmetry
    Graining

    The list goes on

    If you buy a new 116610 from any retailer it will be the same, trust me when I say no 2 diamonds are alike regardless of what the certificate says

    Diamonds are a tactile product, make sure you see and compare them

    Not sure if this is allowed but feel free to PM me for more help or info, if this is not allowed please let me know and I will remove this offer from the post


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  8. #8
    Craftsman
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    Thanks guys all a great help. I'll be pm'ing a few direct questions, cheers.

  9. #9
    Craftsman ray_li30's Avatar
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    Echo what other have said on here. Just one bit of advise I was given; everyone goes for the magic 1 carat, which is often sold at a premium, if you find something just under (0.9) you are likely to get a better colour/clarity for a lot less.

  10. #10
    Master
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    It's pretty much nonsense about GIA cert's being the be-all and end-all Anton, there are some very reputable graders in the UK, just don't take a home-made valuation from a jeweller - make sure it's from a professional third party with no vested interest.
    By the way, it's not always over grading done to rip people off, there are a few who under-grade due to not knowing what they are looking at as well, I've had a couple of bargain diamonds which have been two grades out before now, and big stones too! (both came from Miltons...)

    Just decide on what matters most - which in your case seems to be the "fire" of the stone. A high clarity and a very good/excellent/ideal cut are what you need. That gives you near perfect symmetry so the light passes through the facets at the optimal angles and gives you the fantastic sparkle.

    If you get a very good cut then you'll need to be in the VS1 or better range for clarity. Ideal cut, you'll only need a VS2 or possibly even get away with an SI1.
    Colour doesn't matter, D is the best that has been mined, but everything from D through to H is ranked as "colourless" so forget D, E and F stones and you'll be getting a very good commercial white diamond while saving a grand. I can tell the difference between the white diamonds, but 99% of people only notice differences when you get to "I" colour and get the slight yellow tints.

    Decide on your minimum and maximum grades and DON'T LET SOMEONE UP-SELL YOU. As long as you go in armed with a basic knowledge you should be ok. I still think it's a better bet to buy the diamond yourself and let a jeweller mount it for you, saves a bomb and means you get precisely what you want.

  11. #11
    Master
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    Don't overpay on clarity. SI2 is the threshold below which inclusions become eye visible to a trained grader, meaning SI1 and above buys you increasingly less and can only be discerned by a 10x loupe or in the case of VVS and better a 50x microscope. If your partner hasn't got a microscope then VS2 is all the clarity anyone needs IMO. Subtle differences in colour on the other hand can be discerned by many with the naked eye so while everything is a trade off, it may be worth trading a little clarity for colour. The sweet spot IMO is around FSI1 to GVS2. Cut is graded by a set of mathematical rules, yes getting EX/EX/EX is best but again unless you are a trained grader with sensitive measuring equipment, the layman won't see any difference from a VG/VG/VG. I disagree with one point above to be honest, I do personally think that a GIA is worth paying the extra for, yes Anchor Cert can be pretty accurate but IGI and HRD can often be optimistic by a grade or more on ether colour or clarity or both. Don't get me started on SGL or EGL or any or the other BS artists, it is often just fiction. That said, I was GIA trained so may be a little biased!
    Last edited by Padders; 20th September 2017 at 09:21.

  12. #12
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    Above and beyond here guys thanks so much.

    Much clearer now on exactly what I'm looking for. GVS2 excellent cut seems to tick all the boxes.

    Now to read up on florescence!

  13. #13
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevkojak View Post
    By the way, it's not always over grading done to rip people off, there are a few who under-grade due to not knowing what they are looking at as well, I've had a couple of bargain diamonds which have been two grades out before now, and big stones too! (both came from Miltons...)
    While accepting that this is a recommendation that we often offer very good value (and for which I thank you), most of our valuations are carried out by a Fellow of the Institite of Registered Valuers and the rest by a Member of the same IRV. They are among the most qualified to do such work in the UK and part of a very small number of such qualified valuers. Someone else may grade the stones at better colour / clarity, but these differing opinions do not make either of them "wrong." For what it is worth, my guidance in all descriptions is to under-describe where there is doubt --- which I am sure all see as being in customers' best interest.

    To suggest that either the FIRV or MIRV whom I employ "don't know what they are looking at" because someone else's opinion is more generous would be incorrect and unjustified.

    Of course, it is not clear whether the comment refers to one of the three Milton businesses / four shops which I run, or instead to one of the other two (but they're no mugs, either).

    Who was it who graded the stones more highly and what are their qualifications, out of interest?

    H

  14. #14
    Craftsman JFW's Avatar
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    My thoughts on it.

    Few people can see any difference above G

    Likewise VS2

    Make sure you understand the make (cut) quality you are buying. That makes the most difference to appearance at that level.

    Have fun and enjoy.

    JW


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  15. #15
    Craftsman will852's Avatar
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    May I hijack this thread with a related question?

    Does anyone have any advice/information on how to go about getting the ring, once you've picked a diamond?

    Obviously platinum over white gold if one can afford it.
    Is it a case of taking the diamond to your local neighborhood jeweler?
    Or does anyone have any recommendations of where to go?

    Cheers

  16. #16
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by will852 View Post
    May I hijack this thread with a related question?

    Does anyone have any advice/information on how to go about getting the ring, once you've picked a diamond?

    Obviously platinum over white gold if one can afford it.
    Is it a case of taking the diamond to your local neighborhood jeweler?
    Or does anyone have any recommendations of where to go?

    Cheers
    Similar to my response below on diamonds I tried a few companies (nationwide) when looking for a setting, I was quite particular on what I wanted but prices varied quite a lot.
    In the end I went with a shop in Birmingham (I am from Middlesbrough) they were much cheaper than other places I tried and the difference between white gold and platinum was minimal so I went for platinum, its currently on order and should be with them in about 2-3 weeks so bit of a waiting game.

    I will send you a PM now with their contact details.

  17. #17
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    I ended up sending an email asking for a quote on the diamond and setting to most jewelers I could find in Hatton Garden and a few others.

    There was a wide range in the prices coming back, from a few hundred above blue nile prices to many thousands more. Can only imagine the mark up in the highstreet!

    One independent jeweler, based in one of the emporium's in Hatton Garden came back with the best price, with the price of the diamond below even Blue Nile. Alarm bells were ringing and when I went to chat to him it was as expected a non VAT price which he'd be happy giving to cash buyer. I'm no expert in the necessity of VAT here but assume it'd be a non starter? Would I need a VAT receipt for getting the ring insured etc?

    Safest way looks to be buying from BlueNile myself, which ensures all VAT paid at least then getting one of the shops to set it.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by anton863 View Post
    One independent jeweler, based in one of the emporium's in Hatton Garden came back with the best price, with the price of the diamond below even Blue Nile. Alarm bells were ringing and when I went to chat to him it was as expected a non VAT price which he'd be happy giving to cash buyer. I'm no expert in the necessity of VAT here but assume it'd be a non starter? Would I need a VAT receipt for getting the ring insured etc?
    Don't see why, just get a valuation.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by anton863 View Post
    I ended up sending an email asking for a quote on the diamond and setting to most jewelers I could find in Hatton Garden and a few others.

    There was a wide range in the prices coming back, from a few hundred above blue nile prices to many thousands more. Can only imagine the mark up in the highstreet!

    One independent jeweler, based in one of the emporium's in Hatton Garden came back with the best price, with the price of the diamond below even Blue Nile. Alarm bells were ringing and when I went to chat to him it was as expected a non VAT price which he'd be happy giving to cash buyer. I'm no expert in the necessity of VAT here but assume it'd be a non starter? Would I need a VAT receipt for getting the ring insured etc?

    Safest way looks to be buying from BlueNile myself, which ensures all VAT paid at least then getting one of the shops to set it.
    The company which set mine (the one I emailed you) also provided a full written report and valuation which was all OK with more than when adding to the home insurance.

  20. #20
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    Lab grown diamonds are a thing: https://nightingale.co.uk/about-lab-diamonds

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