Hamilton's bedroom poster ...

[sprite1275]

I was there. Watched the start, then spent the rest of the night drinking over priced beer.

Disappointing to say the least.

Thats pretty much every F1 race. build up and start is great then it just becomes a borefest.

[adrianw]

The thing about Formula 1 is that more often than not the car is the deciding factor, not necessarily the skill of the driver.

I'd like to see them swap drivers after every race so that they each get two races per car, and see how they all do then.

There was a series where they all had identical cars, wasn't there? It was crap.

A1 wasn't crap, it just didn't get the promotion it needed, whereas Formula E will succeed because it is.

F2 and F3 are far more interesting than F1 because the cars are identical, the drivers have to perform to get to the front, most of the F1 drivers follow this path, now watch Alonso he can drive the wheels off whatever you put him in and probably is the best driver out there, in F1 all of the lap times are near identical, id love to see Alonso do a quick lap in a Mercedes but its never going to happen.

[alfat33]

If the BBC ran a Most Annoying Sports Personality of the year competition I think Hamilton would win it year after year.

As long as F1 is classified as a sport.

Personally I don't classify anything with an engine or anything requiring judges to give marks i.e. ice skating, dressage as a sport.
Sport is physical human endeavour and skill.

It's quite hard work driving a racing car. You might find this informative:

https://youtu.be/Tmy0zALh_1g

As for skill, difficult to appreciate without some experience. This might help:

https://youtu.be/auXfAHHNSFo

The one characteristic you missed in your definition of sport is physical bravery. Some of the 'point scoring' sports certainly have that (ice skating for one). Racing drivers definitely:



Why don't you give it a try? Everyone has to start somewhere.



Personally I think Hamilton is an all time great as a driver, for his speed and his overtaking/racecraft. I don't think he is any more flawed as a person than most other world champions.

[jaytip]

Personally I don't classify anything with an engine or anything requiring judges to give marks i.e. ice skating, dressage as a sport.
Sport is physical human endeavour and skill.

And the award for the most ridiculous post of 2017 goes too......

[Enoch]

Personally I don't classify anything with an engine or anything requiring judges to give marks i.e. ice skating, dressage as a sport.
Sport is physical human endeavour and skill.

Yeah, all those boxers and gymnasts.... no skill or physical endeavour whatsoever..👎

[chrisparker]

The thing about Formula 1 is that more often than not the car is the deciding factor, not necessarily the skill of the driver.

I'd like to see them swap drivers after every race so that they each get two races per car, and see how they all do then.

There was a series where they all had identical cars, wasn't there? It was crap.

F1 is a team sport, much like football or tour cycling. The rest of the team play their role in delivering a result. But like every sport the cream rises to the top so you'll always have the most competitve drivers in the best cars, much like you'll have the best strikers playing for the best clubs.

[doubledee]

Lewis Hamilton is the best driver on the grid in my opinion. TBH, I don't get the hate that some people have for him. I think most are jealous of his success.

https://willthef1journo.wordpress.co...ewis-hamilton/

[adrianw]

Lewis Hamilton is the best driver on the grid in my opinion. TBH, I don't get the hate that some people have for him. I think most are jealous of his success.

https://willthef1journo.wordpress.co...ewis-hamilton/

Its subjective but I think it is.

Alonso
Hamilton
Raikkonen
Vettel
Ricciardo
Vestappen

[Foxy100]

Lewis Hamilton is the best driver on the grid in my opinion. TBH, I don't get the hate that some people have for him. I think most are jealous of his success.

https://willthef1journo.wordpress.co...ewis-hamilton/

I think he's a twat. That doesn't mean I don't think he's a good driver, it doesn't make me jealous of his success or jealous of his father's dedication in getting him the best start. I just find what he says and how he acts outside of the car (and sometimes inside the car) embarrassing. But then I don't pretend to speak for 'most', maybe they really are all jealous, sitting there in their Vettel pyjamas crying every time Hamilton wins.

[alfat33]

The one time Alonso and Hamilton were in the same team they had equal points so no problem making a case for him to be at the top as a driver. Maybe Hamilton is better at picking and getting the best out of a team though? I think that counts for something. Schumacher was brilliant at it.

[doubledee]

The one time Alonso and Hamilton were in the same team they had equal points so no problem making a case for him to be at the top as a driver. Maybe Hamilton is better at picking and getting the best out of a team though? I think that counts for something. Schumacher was brilliant at it.

Exactly, when you think about it, he beat the widely regarded best racer on the grid in equal machinery in his rookie season, it tells you that he has talent.

[adrianw]

I think he's a twat. That doesn't mean I don't think he's a good driver, it doesn't make me jealous of his success or jealous of his father's dedication in getting him the best start. I just find what he says and how he acts outside of the car (and sometimes inside the car) embarrassing. But then I don't pretend to speak for 'most', maybe they really are all jealous, sitting there in their Vettel pyjamas crying every time Hamilton wins.

That accent from Stevenage in America cringworthy, and he never had it when he was younger.

[reggie747]

That accent from Stevenage in America cringworthy, and he never had it when he was younger.

It's not Stevenage it's St. Evenage in America and I agree with the above, he's a Tw*t

[~dadam02~]

If the BBC ran a Most Annoying Sports Personality of the year competition I think Hamilton would win it year after year.

As long as F1 is classified as a sport.

Personally I don't classify anything with an engine or anything requiring judges to give marks i.e. ice skating, dressage as a sport.
Sport is physical human endeavour and skill.

I agree, basically just darts and snooker then.

[BadgerUK]

If you think there's no skill and effort required in motor racing why not try it and see how you get on versus a professional racing driver? Presumably you'd be making millions in F1 in no time?

Motor sport is probably one of the most skilful sports there is, how many other sports require the participants to make split second decisions at 200 mph whilst adapting all the time to multiple variables that are constantly changing (tyres, weather, weight, temperature, 19 other cars, etc)?

I didn't say there is no skill or effort in driving fast around a race track.
What I said is that it is not a sport.

Whoever has the fastest engine and car wins the vast majority of the time.
So the car and engine is more important than the individual driver.

Therefore how can that possibly be classified as a sport ?

[adrianw]

I didn't say there is no skill or effort in driving fast around a race track.
What I said is that it is not a sport.

Whoever has the fastest engine and car wins the vast majority of the time.
So the car and engine is more important than the individual driver.

Therefore how can that possibly be classified as a sport ?

Why are you bothering, either you like F1 or you don't

[alfat33]

I didn't say there is no skill or effort in driving fast around a race track.

Yes you did. You said sport is physical endeavour and skill, and that racing isn't a sport.

[watchcollector1]

Its subjective but I think it is.

Alonso
Hamilton
Raikkonen
Vettel
Ricciardo
Vestappen

Alonso does seen to be the more complete driver and more able to drag an uncompetitive car to finishes well beyond it's level. That said Hamilton's performance against Alonso in his first F1 season was quite incredible. I'd love to see them in the same team again but it will never happen sadly.

Alonso's weakness is his devisive nature (more so than Hamilton) and as Martin Brundle has said he's ended up snookering himself in terms of getting a competitive drive.

Vettel vs Ricciardo vs Verstappen is too difficult to call I think. When the latter 2 get the opportunity to drive a championship winning car I think we'll see who's really on top in that battle.

Raikkonen third though?? On current form he wouldn't be in my top 10. For the last few seasons he's had an uncanny ability to avoid ever being in a realistic race winning position even when the car is good enough. Monaco this year was a prime example, he got pole and then had a shocker in the race whilst Vettel was on it from the start.

[reggie747]

he's ended up snookering himself in terms of getting a competitive drive.

Somehow, I don't think he'll be eating bread and milk for dinner anytime soon.
The career decisions must rest with his manager, Flavio el Serpiente

[BadgerUK]

Yes you did. You said sport is physical endeavour and skill, and that racing isn't a sport.

Racing anything using an engine that propels the vehicle rather than the human body is not a sport - correct.

[CardShark]

Alonso does seen to be the more complete driver and more able to drag an uncompetitive car to finishes well beyond it's level. That said Hamilton's performance against Alonso in his first F1 season was quite incredible. I'd love to see them in the same team again but it will never happen sadly.

Alonso's weakness is his devisive nature (more so than Hamilton) and as Martin Brundle has said he's ended up snookering himself in terms of getting a competitive drive.

Vettel vs Ricciardo vs Verstappen is too difficult to call I think. When the latter 2 get the opportunity to drive a championship winning car I think we'll see who's really on top in that battle.

Raikkonen third though?? On current form he wouldn't be in my top 10. For the last few seasons he's had an uncanny ability to avoid ever being in a realistic race winning position even when the car is good enough. Monaco this year was a prime example, he got pole and then had a shocker in the race whilst Vettel was on it from the start.

Not far off from my own thoughts though I'd still keep Kimi in my top 10, possibly in or around 5th/6th/7th. He won the DC ten years ago, that counts for something, and to date he's the last driver to win the DC with Ferrari.

The Seb/Daniel/Max is an interesting comparison. Of the three Max has to be last simply because he doesn't have the on-track experience of the other two, give him a couple more years though and we'll see where he's at. That leaves Seb and Daniel, of the two it's very close. Seb has won a few DCs, Daniel hasn't, yet the latter smashed the former 238 points to 167 when they were Red Bull teammates in 2014. I'm also of the opinion that the Aussie is the best overtaker out there, he's capable of pulling off the most outrageous maneuvers in a clean and decisive manner, and although the law of averages states that DR must have made the odd incident causing error I can't remember one. On the mental strength and red mist front could you see DR doing what SV did to Webber in Turkey a few years back? Bashing wheels into Lewis like Seb did in Baku this season? I think not. In the 2017 season thread I mentioned that it would be good to see Max matched with Seb in 2019, DR taking that seat could be a much more mouthwatering prospect.

As for Alonso, I genuinely believe he has been unlucky. It's only with hindsight that anyone can say that driving for Ferrari and then McLaren were poor choices, it could very easily have gone the other way. As it stands he has "only" the 2 DCs compared to Seb's 4 and Lewis' 3, the last of those was 11 years ago yet he's still held in the highest regard - that says something. I can't see him winning another DC though.

My top 5 competing this season? Tricky however I'm going with -

Hamilton (3 DCs and tops plenty of stats)
Alonso (2 DCs and the ability to seemingly drag every last once out of a car, though we may have to forget about his season at McLaren)
Vettel (you don't win 4 DCs by fluking them, below Alonso due to his occasional on-track petulance)
Ricciardo (only beaten by Vettel because of the German's multiple DC wins)
5th.... I'm going to cop out here... Bottas or Max, with Kimi placed after them...

[alfat33]

Racing anything using an engine that propels the vehicle rather than the human body is not a sport - correct.

Thanks, I think I've got it now. Marathon running is a sport. Horse racing isn't a sport (of Kings or anyone else). Hang on, bicycle racing might be a sport. Hold up, what about the luge?

Sorry, I'm lost again. Probably best if we just leave it.

[BadgerUK]

Thanks, I think I've got it now. Marathon running is a sport. Horse racing isn't a sport (of Kings or anyone else). Hang on, bicycle racing might be a sport. Hold up, what about the luge?

Sorry, I'm lost again. Probably best if we just leave it.

Agreed, you do seem to struggling.

Perhaps one last try, think of a flow chart.

Is It A Sport Flow-Chart

Step 1 - Does the activity involve an engine ?

YES - the activity is not a sport.
NO - go to step 2.

Step 2 - Does the activity involve judges giving marks (subjective assessment) ?

YES - the activity is not a sport.
NO - go to step 3.

Step 3 - Does the activity involve a non-human animal ?

YES - the activity is not a sport.
NO - go to step 4.

Step 4 - Does the activity involve falling down and crying ?

YES - the activity is not a sport - sorry that is football gone.
NO - go to step 5.

Step 5 - The activity can be considered a sport.

Does that help ?

[Longblackcoat]

Agreed, you do seem to struggling.

Perhaps one last try, think of a flow chart.

Is It A Sport Flow-Chart

Step 1 - Does the activity involve an engine ?

YES - the activity is not a sport.
NO - go to step 2.

Step 2 - Does the activity involve judges giving marks (subjective assessment) ?

YES - the activity is not a sport.
NO - go to step 3.

Step 3 - Does the activity involve a non-human animal ?

YES - the activity is not a sport.
NO - go to step 4.

Step 4 - Does the activity involve falling down and crying ?

YES - the activity is not a sport - sorry that is football gone.
NO - go to step 5.

Step 5 - The activity can be considered a sport.

Does that help ?

Jesus, give it up, will you? You don't like F1 so please leave this thread alone for those who like to discuss such matters.

[BadgerUK]

Jesus, give it up, will you? You don't like F1 so please leave this thread alone for those who like to discuss such matters.

The thread is 'Hamilton's bedroom poster' - that is hardly a serious F1 thread is it !
It is a bit of fun.

But this will be my last post on it as I don't want to upset you sensitive types.
When I thought we were just having a bit of fun.

[Andyg]

I didn't say there is no skill or effort in driving fast around a race track.
What I said is that it is not a sport.

Whoever has the fastest engine and car wins the vast majority of the time.
So the car and engine is more important than the individual driver.

Therefore how can that possibly be classified as a sport ?

I would love to see you drive around Spa in a Merc F1 car and win. In fact I bet you would struggle to complete a lap.

However the normal definition of a sport is an leisure activity that requiries specialist shoes/clothing - Football, rugby, motor racing, riding, cycling, golf, tennis, mountain climbing, etc all conform . Snooker, Darts, Chess don't hence these are technically know as games.

But clearly you don't approve of any form of motor sport so why bother on this thread?

[chrisparker]

Agreed, you do seem to struggling.

According to you, sportsman:



Not a sportsman:



___

If winning F1 races just went to the team with the best car why don't the teams save millions of pounds and just let their test drivers do the racing?

[Foxy100]

However the normal definition of a sport is an leisure activity that requiries specialist shoes/clothing

Genius. I had no idea morris dancing was a sport.

[watchcollector1]

Genius. I had no idea morris dancing was a sport.

And bondage

[adrianw]

Not far off from my own thoughts though I'd still keep Kimi in my top 10, possibly in or around 5th/6th/7th. He won the DC ten years ago, that counts for something, and to date he's the last driver to win the DC with Ferrari.

very
5th.... I'm going to cop out here... Bottas or Max, with Kimi placed after them...

Kimi is widely rated as the best seat of the pants natural driver out there, his relaxed demeanour doesn't do him any favours, neither does his number two Fiat driver status

[adrianw]

Agreed, Step 5 - The activity can be considered a sport.

Does that help ?

I'm in Weymouth tomorrow doing a bit of sailing, using a boat, is that a sport?

[Longblackcoat]

Kimi is widely rated as the best seat of the pants natural driver out there, his relaxed demeanour doesn't do him any favours, neither does his number two Fiat driver status

By whom? Obviously this is all subjective, but I think the best you can say is that of active F1 drivers, Kimi might once have been considered as the best 'natural' driver. Not sure that applies now, if ever it did.

If you're looking for current seat of the pants ability, you'd have to say that Verstappen is right up there, and Hamilton's always been there (if you've never seen his Rye House kart races - in the wet - or GP2 Hungary 2006 you should YouTube them). And, of course, Alonso.

Danny Ric is just quarter of a step back, I'd say, but makes up for that with brilliant racecraft and sheer effort - it's not for nothing that he's got more than double the points of his teammate.

Vettel is harder to call. In the blown diffuser car he was untouchable, and even now he's very, very good.

The best in my lifetime was Senna, unquestionably. He made some rubbish decisions, and there were times when I thought he was an utter danger on the track, but nobody can deny that level of talent.

[alfat33]

Kimi is widely rated as the best seat of the pants natural driver out there, his relaxed demeanour doesn't do him any favours, neither does his number two Fiat driver status

A bit off topic, but Ferrari isn't part of Fiat anymore is it? And isn't Fiat part of Fiat Chrysler?

Maybe F1 might take off more in the US if Kimi was driving a Chrysler.

It does seem that Kimi has that natural Scandinavian 'feel' as a driver, from when they all learn to drive the family truck at the age of 7 on icy forest tracks.