Interesting thread. I too was entirely ignorant of these transistorized balance movements until I bought one and subsequently serviced it. This one a Seiko Elnix from 1974 featuring the 0703A, the last in the short line of Seiko's electronic balance movements.
I somehow thought these would be flaky and unreliable, but since completing the service back in May, its been running sweetly at 28800 bph and doing so with the most amazing accuracy. I made a short video of the movement in action here:
If you are interested, you can see the write-up of the service here.
Martin
Nice write-up Martin. I hadn't heard of these before seeing this thread and I'm very interested in these technically quirky movements. Took me a minute to understand what you meant by these movements operating "in reverse" but once it clicked it made a lot of sense. I suppose you could say that these are the opposite of a spring drive, which has a mainspring but no balance, while these have a balance but no mainspring.Originally Posted by MartinCRC
Thanks for posting these, everyone - the transition from mechanical to electronic timekeeping is a fascinating period and I'm a sucker for this sort of unapologetic 1970s style. I especially love the faceted crystals on some of these - a feature very much "of its time" and no doubt impossible to replace these days, but also breathtakingly cool and entirely in keeping with the experimental nature of some of the technology.
Marvellous watches on here, and a great and interesting thread OP.
The only one I have-apart from 3 non-working Accutrons, and they don't count-is this great old Timex from 1971.
Great write up Martin, very interesting.
Love the dial on your Seiko Elnix - so '70's.
Cheers,
Neil.
I'm not normally too bothered about my watches. If I mark them, then that's just the way it is.
But when wearing this, I do try to take extra care. Hence I don't wear it a great deal
It's a lovely watch but a bit of crystal scratch remover would buff it up if it did get a scratch.I'm not normally too bothered about my watches. If I mark them, then that's just the way it is.
But when wearing this, I do try to take extra care. Hence I don't wear it a great deal
I remember my Dad had a Seiko with the same style faceted crystal.
Cheers,
Neil.
There's a NOS Cosmotron over on SCWF listed today. Not sure what the ettiqiette on cross posting sales threads from elsewhere is so I'll leave it at that.
Bit steep at €420?.. or is it?
I'm not at all sure of the value of this stuff but I guess 420 Euros for a rare NOS watch like that is not out of the bounds of possibility?
BTW the price shows Y17,000, what is that in today's money allowing for inflation?
Cheers,
Neil.
£1,602.69 according to http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/educa...r/default.aspx
I agree that's probably fine; as you say, but once you've tracked down and mothballed a spare movement it's maybe not that great value.
Good info, cheers.
Cheers,
Neil.
To keep an interesting thread going here's another electronically controlled balance wheel watch of mine.
An Avia Swissonic with an ESA 9154 movement.
Very '70's looking, chunky and a bit shapeless. Nice blue dial though with the big rectangular hands.
It has the "transistor" minute markers like Alfat 33's Helvetia, in fact a very similar looking watch.
I wish I had taken a pic of the back as it has a battery hatch that can be orientated to show the month the battery was fitted. Quite handy on these types of watches.
The marks are on the crystal, have to give it a bit of a polish up.
Cheers,
Neil.
I gormlessly forgot to take a pic of the back but as usual Paul at Electric watches comes to the rescue.
Here's the back with the hatch that you can ingeniously set to the month a new battery was fitted.
Clever idea.
Cheers,
Neil.
That's nice. I've seen other Avias with that dial (although not that colour) and concluded that they must be essentially the same watch with a different brand name. The case is a bit different on mine and I've never seen another one marked Helvetia though. The case back is exactly like yours.
At some point Helvetia became owned by ASUAG and stopped being effectively an independent. Every now and then I try and find out the history of Helvetia from the late 30s on but there seems very little information readily available - I need to try harder :)
Incidentally, it took me quite a while to realise that there are 3 transistors between each hour marker, when you might expect 4.
Re your earlier point, I'm sure that a lot of those ESA powered watches were the same with just a different brand name on the dial. Of course that "name" could make a fair difference in the selling price!
It was quite common in the '70's to have a variety of watches available for "makers" to have their name printed on the dial.
Cheers,
Neil.
Here's a pic of the ESA 9154, courtesy of Paul at Electric watches.
We've seen a few really nice electronic balance wheel watches on this thread.
Surely there must be a few more??
Cheers,
Neil.
Thanks to this thread I've just bought a decent looking X8 Cosmotron with the 4840 movement which is similar to the 0840 but with a date complication. Fairly basic EBW technology but I didn't think I could go too far wrong for sixty quid.
Photos from the eBay seller, I'll report back when it arrives.
I missed one with the interesting 7803A movement but it didn't look to be in great condition and was in Japan, so potential customs issues.
^^
Oooh, that looks lovely and in great condition. Sixty quid? A bargain!
You'll find that they are super accurate watches and I particularly like the micro adjustment on the Citizens.
A really nice piece of horological history and what better way to spend sixty quid?
Cheers,
Neil.
@Neil.C , out of interest does your Avia, or other ESA based watches, have a case design like mine where the inner case pops out of the outer case?
I think this is both an interesting thread as well as a dangerous one: I do not have any of these!
Sent from my iPad using TZ-UK mobile app
Some lovely pieces on this thread. Thanks for sharing
@Neil.C , out of interest does your Avia, or other ESA based watches, have a case design like mine where the inner case pops out of the outer case?
Yes.
On the Avia the case has a cut out at the back of the crown which allows the whole inner case to be removed like yours.
I guess the "maker" could specify what case they wanted along with the dial design.
All the Swissonic types seem to be of the same unit construction.
Unless anyone has anything different?
Cheers,
Neil.
Just back from the hospital after having it's M40 repaired.
Nice one.Just back from the hospital after having it's M40 repaired.
Where did you send it, to Paul's?
Cheers,
Neil.
No. Paul doesn't work on M40s now. It went to Woodland Technical. Quick and inexpensive.
RLT has a fair number of these types of watch on his second hand section. Spotted a beauty.... To then be reminded that loads of stuff listed on there is sold.
Good prices by the look of it.
Ah right, good info.
Cheers,
Neil.
I'm not quite sure about this. In 1970 the pound was worth 850 Yen and so 17000 Yen was equivalent to about £20. Using the BoE inflation calculator takes that to about £285 in 2016. The average wage in Japan at the time was probably a little more than half that of the UK (where they are more or less par now) and so in terms of affordability, 17000 Yen would have been quite an investment, but nothing like the equivalent of £1600.
Martin
You are quite right Martin - I had taken 17000 yen, converted to GBP in xe.com and THEN put into the inflation calculator. I'd have needed xe to convert at 1970 rates indeed!
So how much was it in the end?
Cheers,
Neil.
No idea
I'll have another Google inspired attempt:
The silver cosmotron that was 17k Yen new, is a 1970 model. I found Yen/USD data for 1971+ so... using 1971 which is fairly close:
- 1971: 17000 Yen was worth $347.79 (as sourced from here: https://teara.govt.nz/files/g-24824-data.txt )
- $347.79 from 1971 is worth $2108 today (as calculated here http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/) which DOES seem about right to me.
- ... and finally, using xe.com at today's rate to convert that USD figure to GBP, that equates to £1571
So, there we go. A 3rd figure! I'm probably wrong again..
I'm afraid your maths is wonky. Your 1971 exchange rate was 347 Yen to 1 USD and so 17000 Yen is 17000/347=49 USD. Your inflation calculator reckons that inflates to $496 in 2017 which at current rate of exchange is £367 which is in the ballpark of my earlier estimate based on historical 1970 exchange rate data (the Yen was rising dramatically in value during that period).
Sent from my XT1572 using TZ-UK mobile app
I'm going with 807.32 USD. I got a waiter to calculate it using basic bistromathics.
I don't doubt your maths skills Martin but I think £367 would seem be a very reasonable price for something that was a pretty high tech bit of gear in those days.
Cheers,
Neil.
In 1971, a Seiko 6139-6032, a variant of the classic Pogue, would have cost you 18,000 Yen; a Bell-Matic 17,500 Yen; a 6159 300m diver's watch, more than double that at 38,000 Yen. King Seikos ranged from about 20,000 to 32,000 Yen and Grand Seikos from 32,000 to 53,000 Yen. Bog standard Lord Matics were mid teens and the mid to low end Actus models mid teens down to about 9000 Yen.
The Seiko EL-370 Electronic watch series sat between 18000 and 20000 Yen so pretty much on a par with the Citizen Cosmotron of the time. Whatever the price point of any of these models, they would have been offering super value for money compared to the Swiss alternatives and so I reckon a price that is the equivalent of £250 to £350 for a '71 Cosmotron seems about right to me. We must also remember, that the electronic watch development at that time was a blind alley: the real innovation and the future of the watch industry was quartz. I have copies of catalogues from 1974 and later where quartz models first make an appearance and the prices range from mid 40,000 Yen mark all the way up to about 1,000,000 Yen!!! The mechanical stuff in those catalogues is still pitched across the same price brackets as in the 1971 catalogues with the Elnix electronic watches sitting between low 20000 and low 30,000 Yen range.
Martin
17,000 JPY was about 2.1% of GDPpc in 1971.
Does anyone have or know anything about the balance motor version of the Tissot Seastar PR516? Googling around I've seen a couple of nice ones.
I have this one and I love it;
2017-09-30_06-43-52 by mcridland, on Flickr
Runs a Record-Golay fb7723
Interesting info here;
http://www.crazywatches.pl/mirexal-g...23-quartz-1972
Mark
Last edited by Sharky; 30th September 2017 at 18:54.
That's very cool, thanks for posting. One way of getting a sweep second hand with quartz accuracy. Looks good too.
Not a Seastar, but I have this electronic PR-516 with ESA 9154.
That's a looker, very nice.Not a Seastar, but I have this electronic PR-516 with ESA 9154.
Cheers,
Neil.
That is an interesting piece Mark, thanks for posting.
Cheers,
Neil.
Thanks for the comprehensive details Martin. I love this sort of info.
I've got a fair few old catalogues here and it is always interesting to see the prices at first hand.
Cheers,
Neil.
It arrived today and I'm really chuffed. It has a lovely sunburst dial and the seconds hand sweeps very nicely. The case is in fantastic condition. I really do think it was a bargain.Oooh, that looks lovely and in great condition. Sixty quid? A bargain!
You'll find that they are super accurate watches and I particularly like the micro adjustment on the Citizens.
A really nice piece of horological history and what better way to spend sixty quid?
It looks great, not surprised you are so pleased.
I have no idea what people pay for these but it looks like a bargain to me. For calibration my ESA, in similar condition to yours I would say, was about twice the price of yours and that was less than half the advertised price (which I thought was taking the p).
That looks absolutely gorgeous.It arrived today and I'm really chuffed. It has a lovely sunburst dial and the seconds hand sweeps very nicely. The case is in fantastic condition. I really do think it was a bargain.
A great piece of horology and a smashing looker for sixty quid!
Brilliant.
Welcome to the club.
Cheers,
Neil.
Whilst I'm extremely pleased with the X8, I've had an itch for a Cosmotron with a 36,000 bhp Calibre 78xxx series movement. This caught my eye with the green sunburst dial and chunky faceted crystal and although it wasn't quite the bargain of the first it still came in at less than a ton which I'm more than happy with.
It's in great condition with just a few minor scuffs and has a Kanji/English day wheel with the novel method of setting which involves pushing the crown whilst holding the watch upright to advance the date and doing the same with the watch upside-down to advance the day. The movement is a 7806A.
Without further ado, the photographs. The first couple of images show how the facets of the crystal are only clearly visible when viewed at an angle. The final shot of the pair highlights the great variety of Cosmotron design.
That's another cracker.
Funny thing with the date setting, if we didn't already know I bet nobody would ever guess!
Cheers,
Neil.
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