I guess it is inevitable, but when I first joined this forum most of the discussion on 'Watch Talk' was about watches. These days talk is more about toward using watches as some sort of investment vehicle. And also SC was an adjunct to the forum and I have seen a few times when Eddie was more vocal on the site (before the watershed when the site nearly was sold to a third party with the wholehearted outcry from the membership - remeber that?) that SC would be shutdown to keep the spirit off the forum,
I do remember a few times when SC was actually taken down to keep us focused on the main purpose of the forum - which seems to get less noticed these days:
"A friendly place to discuss watches". (Paraphrase)
Also - we used to sell watches at knocked down prices to each other - not to "get back what I paid for", approach or "a dealer will offer me this to you have to pay the same". I realise no one wants to lose money these days - but just saying attitudes have changed.
And this incessant concentration on one Brand seems to be over coming these days. Which is a shame as there are so many to talk about and discuss.
Technical discussion of watches is a rare but pleasant topic, I'm sure there were more in the past
Anyway - soap box dismounted
Back inside my shell
Martyn
I sympathise, but I think part of the issue is that watches now cost at least twice what they used to, and the days of picking up a nice vintage Omega for a couple of hundred are long gone. Meanwhile the pound has slumped to a 168 year low, according to the FT.
It would be great to ignore all this and just discuss a variety of aesthetically pleasing watches, but it can't help but have an impact on the practicality of the hobby, unfortunately.
I am a newish member but I couldn't agree more. The endless concentration on money, on 'investment' gets wearying. It is part of the hobby...money matters...but more about the watches themselves be nice. The whole 'money' thing becomes infectious. Hard not to go down the same track.
As for SC, people have asked why i tended to ask lowish prices. Because it's a hobbyist forum, not a dealers arena. Private sales are traditionally well below dealer prices.
I saw all the same trends on high- end audio forums. In the end It made me leave the hobby.
Last edited by paskinner; 5th September 2017 at 08:55.
Im a new member, but it even irritates me the amount of people only worried about watches that hold there value while completely ignoring other watches (that they would enjoy more). I have only ever purchased a watch because I absolutely love it! If I lose money when I come to sell it it really doesn't bother me, I bought a brand new rolex Datejust and lost a lot of money when I sold it (sold in a hurry) I loved that watch and would still have it if I hadn't have needed the money at the time (couldn't justify having a £6000 watch on my wrist but not afford to pay the bills! 😁) I also have seen in older threads that Eddie used to post a lot, it is a shame he is not here as often as he is a very knowledgeable bloke. I would also add that it is sad that the time factors forum never seems to be that active!
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These days even the least contentious and most innocuous of topics can soon descend into a festering pit of invective and vitriol
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Martyn, I am a member for only a couple of years. I suspect many more members agree with you than might seem apparent. Personally I've got a huge amount from the forum and lots of help from different members, on all sorts of brands and watch related subjects. I've found people are very generous with their time and spares, straps etc. and I've made some friends 'offline'. It just seems that you have to navigate round the Rolex speculation, although fair play to those who have that as an interest as well.
I wish there was more technical discussion about watches but such posts get very little comment, whether fascinating and informative from expert watchmakers/repairers or with more enthusiasm than content (like mine).
i am very new but had "posh watches" for about 20 years and do find it amusing how many are bought purely on their resale and escalating initial purchase price for some sort of willy waving . I find some of the stuff on SC well priced and some very much dealer price and then there is the amount of oddball stuff for sale lol
I got a ban for using a fruitty word then saw what was going on in the boys room which gave me a bit of a wry smile, on the whole its very good though but forums / sites do change as the people change having been a mod on a few over the years and sorted out some very odd bun fights
Well I'll be a voice of dissent.
I still find that people discuss lesser known watches, even some pretty mundane ones and there are some great threads on reviving heirloom watches or car boot wrecks or the destruction testing of an Amphibia, just to see how WR it really was!
Sure, there's far too much Rolex (There! I've said the word!) adoration, but as someone who finds the majority of their watches either a bit boring or truly awful, I just ignore any thread with the "R" word in the title or in the first line or two of the post if it's not mentioned in the title.
And, yes, there's the odd "Investment" discussion, but it's usually newbies who read too many metrosexual magazines who've jumped on the watch bandwagon now that classic car prices have gone ballistic! They either leave or adapt to the view that watches are to be enjoyed, not kept as 'safe queens' (although I'm willing to bet there's a fair number of 'old guard' with their own 'safe queens'...)
SC? Well, yes, getting "what it owes me" is a common phrase now, but find the same watches cheaper (let alone from a trustworthy source) anywhere else? Seems to me that part of the TZ SC ethos is 'passing around' watches - No reason why people should take a big hit if they bought at a good price, is there? If they pass on their good fortune, all is balanced in the force!
The spirit of the forum is alive and well and, no doubt, "it were all better in my day", but this is still THE place to come and read about and discuss watches and maybe buy and sell, so you (and someone else) can enjoy another watch!
M
I make no secret of the fact that I have zero understanding of the technicalities of watchmaking, other than the fact that complications are, well, complicated. To be entirely honest, I don't really 'get' complications, and I think pieces such as the everyone-wants-one Skydweller looks rather gauche as well as being a bit pointless. But I'm in the minority, and I'm fine with that.
1960s stuff is my love, hence today I'm wearing a 1965 (birth year) Air King Precision. I really don't know what it's worth (and I'm not selling it, so it doesn't matter), and I got it simply because I loved the shape. I also love the discretion - almost no-one knows what it is (same with most of my watches) but then I wear them to please me, not to show off.
I've bought lots of watches, but never sold one, and they're all there to be daily wearers, though I had a long phase where I didn't bother wearing anything other than a TomTom running watch; I'd got a bit fed up with the endless "what can I buy for £5k" threads, as if the amount of money you spend on a watch in any way signifies how much you like it.
I think there is nothing wrong with discussing Rolex. Not every rolex discussion is about money. Rolex watches are just extremely good watches. It outperforms so many other brands on so many levels, even things like movement durability, accuracy, robustness, then after service to name a few. The added bonus is then the value retention. But you cannot categorise every discussion of rolex purely motivated by money. The watch themselves are really good. Simple as that.
Also on SC, sellers put "WF offered me X" and i actually think that is a good thing. Why? firstly we all know dealers will
offer you knock down prices as they need to make money also, typically 50-60% of the retail price. Many times that is far below what you would get in a private sale we all know this. This isn't true just for watches, things like cars too, if you sell privately you get more. This has never changed. Simple economics. WF has been quoted many times simply because WF has grown as a comoany and it provides a benchmark for many people. By putting a dealer price on it people can have more piece of mind as to what the "floor" price is but also buy a watch far cheaper than they ever could and i think that is still very much in the forum spirit. Sure there has been a few posts making profits and all that but that is the minority.
Also someone mentioned FX rates and this has had a massive impact on watch prices. Again nothing anyone can do about this and for sure is not about greed or not in the spirit of the forum. The GBp has devalued so much but watches are priced globally, namely first in Swiss francs. It's then normal that watches remain "hedged" in many ways.If GBP takes a 30% hit it's then inevitable that a watch that used to cost £3000, now has to be sold 30% more. In reality that's just FX adjustment and nktnprofits "theoretically" speaking.
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Last edited by kaiserphoenix; 5th September 2017 at 09:26.
I'd say on the whole it's a good deal more polite than when I first joined. People certainly used to speak their minds pretty clearly and the banter could be quite bitchy at times. It never bothered me, in fact it was quite funny, though rarely ended well. But currently people are less likely to jump on a thread to tell you your watch is an abomination. Probably a lot of it had to do with a small minority of members, it only takes a few to change the atmosphere.Originally Posted by seikopath
Last edited by Itsguy; 5th September 2017 at 09:39.
I have wondered a few times how many of the 'original' members are still using the forum. Did some leave because they became disillusioned with the way it evolved? No idea.
I understand the 'investment' part of the content and have no problem with it, in fact it's quite informative. The way that certain watches have exploded in value makes such talk inevitable, as you are now talking about serious and important levels of money (at least for me). The recent post I did regarding my 1680 purchase is a case in point where without the help of the forum I would have been a few grand out of pocket, which I can't afford to be!
Some of the bickering on WT threads is rather pointless and we could do without it. Politely disagreeing with someone is absolutely fine, but once insults start to go back and forth it should be continued by PM. I don't need to see it!
I'm sure the forum has changed a great deal from it's infancy but that's life. It's still a really good forum IMO, you just need to filter out the stuff you don't like.
Its probably just me, but I hate the " Must be in Perfect Condition"
I wear my watches, I have no idea how a 2 year old watch is not marked, cuffed or has swirlies
DT
Your not meant to actually wear them mate! Just take them out of the box every once in a while to take pictures to post on forums! 😂
I have owned my smiths everest for just over a month and it has already been all over the south of England and Wales and is just about to come with me to Scotland. I have climbed 4 mountains with it on my wrist (make that 6 by the time I come back from Scotland) and it has lots of micro scratches already. And guess what? I don't care, I live it and will probably will never sell it.
Ian
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Don't forget that it must have the stickers intact also !!
I sold a two year old Max Bill earlier this year. I wore it regularly, about one day a week, and it was unmarked. Perhaps some of us are less clumsy?
More generally, this thread is proving lush pasture for people who like to think their appreciation of watches is more textured and sincere than is typical at the moment.
The forum has certainly changed over the last few years. Trying to identify whether it's for the better or not is a pretty pointless exercise, though; TZ-UK has many thousands of members now, and the interests of the true enthusiasts are obviously going to be diluted.
The only thing I don't like are the nasty/snide comments that proliferate almost every section of the forum. Whilst I seem to recall thinking that when I joined, it's definitely got worse and the nature of the abuse more concerning.
I've been a member for a few years but tend to read more than I post. From my point of view the forum is nowhere near as enjoyable place to hang out as it was a few years ago. What first attracted me to the forum, other than Eddie's excellent creations, was that it was a place where all brands were given equal time and it was a great place to learn about all the different makers. These days it seems to be 90% Rolex. A new arrival from one of the niche brands will maybe get a couple of comments, yet the arrival of the forums ten thousandth BLNR will be met with pages of adoring posts. Maybe it's just the way we, as a collective, have evolved. We probably all started with lower cost watches but this hobby grabs you by the balls and won't let you go. Before you know it your tastes have changed and so have your aspirations. Personally I've done Rolex to death, I've had many but only one remains and I doubt I'll be buying another. I've moved on to pieces that I actually find interesting for one reason or another and value retention isn't a primary concern.
I think that, in the main, SC still works and there are still some gems to be found. There are so many second hand dealers around now though that sellers do have a decent choice and are much more aware of what they should be asking. I don't see any reason why someone should settle for selling for less on here than they could get elsewhere, unless the watch was purchased on here. What I don't like is the few cases there have been of virtually new watches, generally Rolex or Patek, which appear on SC at a premium to match what Watchfinder etc would offer. We're expected to believe that the sellers are doing us a favour by selling these hard to find watches on here at a slightly lower price than the dealers. They're not, they're profiteering just as much as the dealers are and I don't see that as being in the spirit of the forum.
As a relative newcomer of about 10 years standing, I reckon this place is as nice/nasty/commercial/altruistic as it ever was.
Just have a look at the fundraiser. It only started relatively recently, and we also have quite a few other successful charity events go on.
I think it is quite a good thermometer of the community-mindedness of the forum.
It is perfectly natural in these times that people watch their pennies, and some meteoric price rises are bound to be discussed, but t'was ever thus.
We were discussing how milsubs used to be under £2k quite a while ago now. In collecting circles there will always be discussions about value, especially if it changes (for better or worse).
Also, selling without loss (or even with profit) has gone on here for years, but there are still good prices on SC. Not all, but again, this is not new.
I do agree there is less technical discussion. However, the more discussion there has been, the less need there is for more of it, as the original points still largely remain for people to search out.
I still enjoy my time here.
Dave
See that's the difference, one day a week to me is not regular, I have 2 watches, they are both worn at least 2 weeks every month.
Maybe its a money thing, but I don't have a watch for each day
Any forum with a few thousand members is going to attract all sorts, that is a simple fact of life.
I came to this forum just over three years ago to acquire knowledge and I have been served well. I am primarily interested in Rolex and have bought five for myself and one for my wife and I suspect, that is it. One Rolex was bought via SC as was a Jubilee bracelet. I found discussions on price valuable when I was buying but as I have no intention of ever selling, the topic is now, for me, somewhat redundant.
I do think there could be more moderation on SC where some of the comments on watches being sold are really bad form.
Overall a good forum.
I have to agree - having been a member for at least 15 years I reckon. It was never about investments and arguments, or anyone bashing a particular brand/brands. Sure there was lively debate but it often gets a bit silly now and I genuinely can't think of a Rolex thread that isn't just repeated ad infinitum on here. I for one don't visit as often as I used to simply because I don't really view watches as an investment and I don't consider myself a collector - I'm simply fascinated by watches in all shapes and forms. I will admit to a bit of cynicism though - having bought plenty of 'classic' Swiss watches back when they were £1500 (and not being particularly overwhelmed by any of them tbh) I simply wouldn't spend £5000 on the modern versions - investment or not! - when I feel I've been there, done that. I'll whisper it, bit above a certain point it becomes man jewellery and there is no logic to any of it. When you've bought and sold your 'grails' it's amazing how much fun a watch in the £50 -£500 category can be, but it rarely see them discussed on here now
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It's does seem to be a Rolex fanboy gathering on some threads . I've seen some stunning watches on here and some utter crap that is the in thing ( Rolex amongst that )
I'm getting more fascinated by vintage stuff too thanks to on here so it's swings and roundsbouts
As a community we've gone up market. Which I think is natural. The internet and this forum have enabled us to learn and discover new things (to the detriment of my wallet at least).
Ironically with prices as they are - way, way above inflation over the last 15 years; I think we may start looking and discovering 'value' watches. Heck value back in the day meant top end Nomos for under £1k. Good luck with that now. I certainly am trying to rediscover that end of the market. My big concern with this end of the scale is it's all a bit samey - same old diver style or Rolex copy. I wanna see some innovation but also accept it's tough in this market and can understand why we see the kickstarter approach which is a shame.
Eddie got the model spot on IMO - inspired from older style and some interesting new takes on watches, I certainly hope we see some new stuff from our Gaffer.
Do you think that the increase in talk of investments is partly as a result of the economy? I imagine there are now a lot of people like myself who bought up some rolex etc because my money would just be losing value if kept in the bank. There may be better forms of investment (I call it investment, but it I'm happy for them just to match inflation really) but for me watches are fairly easy, and a heck of a lot more enjoyable than a piece of paper telling you you have some premium bonds etc.
I have been a member for 11 years although I have had times when I have not been active.
I like the fact that there is a SC and that is were I bought my Sinn U2 at a very good price from a trusted seller in 2007.
My pet hates are:
People removing photos not only from the SC but also older threads in Watchtalk, but I suspect part of this is PhotoBucket being a PITA.
Removal of the selling price / edited to read "sold".... (irritating when you come across something less common and you are wondering what the asking price is)
and the Worst of all "I only want what I paid for it"........ I have walked away from a fair number of deals because the seller has uttered those words.
Aside from watches, My interests include target / clay shooting, collecting various types of knives, leatherman's and outdoor gear.
I often sell unwanted gear at way below what I could get for them, because to my mind, I've enjoyed owning and using a particular item and I like to see someone else enjoy it at a bargain price.... in fact I even give stuff away sometimes.
I have bought a couple of new watches since my Sinn U2 had to go off to Germany for service. A Seiko SRPA81J1 black tuna ..... and more importantly one of the last Sinn U1000's off the production line. I bought the U1000 as I always wanted one.... I'm wearing it daily at the moment and I have no real interest in what its future value might be.... As others have said, watches should be worn and enjoyed.
SC remains a great asset. I get the sense that stuff isn't moving well at the moment. Not helped by some weirdly lazy adverts...no,pictures, little information, high,price. My recent favourite was the guy who gave no clue as to the age of the watch. When queried, he replied on the Open Forum: 'no one has asked'.
Great stuff.
Newcomers aren't welcomed with anything other than contempt from a group, who seem to radiate this attitude throughout the forum. Just because you've just joined one of many online watch forums doesn't mean you are new to the hobby and ignorant, but getting out in your place is a regular occurrence.
Many of the established members fail to realise watches are getting bigger and although there remain some excellent and iconic models, personally I think they're shortsighted not to accept the changes are fuelled by desire. If buyers didn't want the upgrades provided, size/materials/functions etc, the manufacturers would step back and adjust accordingly.
I've been a member for a few years, but far more active recently.
I like the site as it is. I'm more for the broad church when it comes to watches. I feel the site and the content members share is also nicely varied and definitely helps to feed and further my interest. I'm certainly drawn to spend time here and feel able to contribute generally without judgement. That's the point surely?
The SC is great and I love browsing. I find it as interesting as the forum itself and it's certainly lead me to discover and understand the pricing of lots of watches I may never have noticed otherwise.
I can see how many threads about Rolex waiting lists and value retention can be tiring. I do however understand that these are exciting and for some rather significant purchases. Where else can they chat about it? I'm sure their friends and family couldn't give a damn.
My take is that buying a watch purely with future value as the driver is stupid. Using the fact value will be well retained as the excuse/justification to own wonderful watches I have no issue.
Forums are getting less traffic these days generally as they compete with faster more of the moment sharing methods. I've been a member of many over the years and have seen lots of them decline. With that in mind I would say this one is doing very well considering.
Last edited by dommorton; 5th September 2017 at 12:31.
I have to say I didn't find this at all, although you aren't the first to mention it so there must be something going on.
Everyone gets riled or abrupt sometimes, but I've found people in the main overwhelmingly helpful and thoughtful - including some who might be seen as part of that group you mention (if it really exists).
As another longstanding member, I actually agree with some of what Martyn said and some of what snowman said.
I do think there is more focus now on Rolex than there used to be, and I too simply move past many (but not all) of those threads as they are often somewhat repetitive. To put some context around this point, when I read Martyn's original post, 8 of the first 14 threads on WT were about Rolex - that seems to me rather excessive.
I also agree that there has been an increase on the attention paid to residual values.
Having said all that I still believe this forum is a great place to be, it still throws up great topics of debate and the vast majority of members are good-hearted. Of course there are a few aggressive idiots about, but most of them don't last long and there were similar types in evidence 12 years ago.
Oh, and I too miss the acerbic humour of our patron - Eddie's posts have always been good value.
Simon
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Last edited by mycroft; 5th September 2017 at 12:57.
Another newish member here - avid reader and occasional poster. I think the forum is great, I really do. My favourite posts are definitely from the watchmakers detailing their work, I think some of those have been fabulous (there was a guy based in France who put together some amazing photos of his work, but he seems to have disappeared of late which is a shame).
The whole Rolex thing does get a bit dull, but to be fair it's inevitable that particular brand dominates. It's quite easy to dodge those threads...
All in all I've spent a couple of years here, have learnt a lot and have a nearly full watch box to show for it.
The only things that rile me are the Del Boys with their regular 'clear outs' and other such nonsense, and lying berks like Sweepinghand but they usually get smoked out in the end.
Long live the forum and thanks to Eddie for keeping it going
Well, saying your watch is an abomination is one thing, but there is a lot of bitchiness on this forum, which is quite different.
Why is it 'bichiness' rather than 'grumpiness'? Are we having Guardian-type gender issues? Or is there a meaningful distinction between the two terms?
Last edited by paskinner; 5th September 2017 at 12:53.
Longish term member here, though absent for periods of time. A few points, in no particular order:
- The US/UK/EU financial collapse. Houses, art, classic cars, and yes, classic watches acted as a store of value as currencies deflated. For those outside the international art and classic car markets, a Swiss watch might be the largest single foreign exchange transaction in their lifetime. Hence a lot of members wishing they'd bought years ago, and wondering if this is some kind of natural law of price appreciation.
- Facebook and social media. Status signalling to construct an online version of oneself has become prevalent, and accepted. Forums which were once a niche and dusty place for special-interest groups to hangout together, have for some become another place for social signalling. Be it wealth, knowledge, prestige, moral fibre, education, contrariness or wit.
- The most-recently-commented-on-post-rises-to-the-top format isn't helping. In the absence of other quality measuring devices, it over emphasises "recentness" over quality. All those old posts which longer term members recall are still here. Just submerged under noise.
- A "like" button or some other appreciation/quality token might be helpful. It would be easier to find interesting content with such a system. Quality posts sink faster than their content merits. Some of the complaints about "things aren't what they used to be..." would be rendered irrelevant if that great old content was a bit easier to find.
Last edited by Tokyo Tokei; 5th September 2017 at 14:05.
Hey, Grumpy has feelings as well you know. And don't get me started on Sneezy and Dopey.
I'm banned from the Bear pit but I don't actually miss it because it was quite a depressing place. It means when I come here, it's for the watches and I like the fact that people are more down to earth than on WUS
Very true but agreed they seem to be not as popular on here now. Some areas of the forum just as good and informative as before but some to be avoided now due to entrenched attitudes.
It's definitely changed massively since I joined and over the last couple of years I have seriously considered pulling the pin and leaving but instead, I just take a break as I still enjoy it over all the other options. Plus, a number of members whom I felt created some of the unnecessary tension/arguments/increased spats either have moved on, chilled out or don't post as much.
The credit goes to Eddie ultimately as in my opinion, he is very forgiving and understanding and is willing to give people plenty of chances to redeem themselves and forgive and forget, which goes to show, you can run a forum without heavy moderation.
I've been a lurker since the old days and this post is spot on. The biggest change on this forum is the amount of people crying about how other people choose to approach watch collecting. This thread is a great example.
Oh...how to define terms! I'm a grumpy person, so I moan a lot, about....well everything. No-one pays any notice so not a problem! When I say Bitchiness, I mean aggressive hostile or even nasty-minded responses. You only have to post the slightest criticism of the 'R' brand to see lots of examples. I find a sense of humour failure on here too often - divergent views can be regarded as personal insults and I don't dare post anything shall we say ...mischevious on here, as it will be taken as a full blown attack rather than a lighthearted p...take!
Jealousy plays a huge part, often disguised by picking something to 'complain' about. I wouldn't create a SOTC post here, the outstanding (any value) create a poor response most of the time and any valid, constructive 'criticism' is judged rude. Stick to the Friday thread.
On the basis of a good thread creating debate and considered response, I'd say good thread !
I'm a Newbie so can't offer any long term opinion.
I enjoy the forum, hence I am here.
I'd like to see more variation on SC, but it's good for my finances that I don't.
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There has been a lot of change in the last 7 years I have been here. There used to be much wider brand discussion, now there is hardly any discussion of Timefactors products, accessibly priced watches, Sinn etc. As much as I like Rolex, the discussions are far too dominant and often revolve around waiting lists and profit. This is clearly driven by the current supply demand imbalance, but it would be nice to be back on a more sustainable footing. Patek sports used to be hardly mentioned, now they have a constant presence. I suspect that if they weren't the asset that they are, partly supply/demand driven, the interest might not be so great.
It would be nice to have the variety back, and some more movement discussions, particularly for newer members.
I still like hanging out here though, and the self regulation, particularly of SC is quite an attribute
Dave
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Last edited by helidoc; 5th September 2017 at 14:31.
I think SC has become the victim of its own success with a lot of the sought after and decent vintage bits going either to the trade or between friends.
Knockdown pricing is great but with the amount of hoovers and mickey takers with their top priced trades and wanting hundreds off already low prices it's not going to end well for supply because in many cases reasonable dealers will offer more and it's instant rather than laborious wrangling.
There seems to be less give and take and more take these days which is a bit of a shame.
I don't think the forum has changed much though really.
The proliferation of Rolex threads seems to be from newer members who are probably still quite apprehensive about dumping silly money into a watch. I remember having the same worries myself before the hobby really kicked in so it doesn't really bother me.
The fabled forum spirit is still alive and well imo.
Being a newcomer to this parish I cant really comment on how it's changed over the years.
What I do know however is that it's a generally good-natured place, albeit with the odd bit on 'needle' every now and then, and a quite astonishing ability to support good causes via the fundraiser. How, as a group of niche interest WIS nerds, we manage to take the fundraiser total to the kind of level we do is totally beyond me, but it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside whenever I think about it - we should all be justly proud of that and keep on doing it.
Eye roll.
There has been a big shift in the pricing dynamic to be fair. When I joined here I regularly saw aerospaces change hands for £600-850, SMP quartz for £750-800, Carrera under a grand and speedies for £1000-1500.
Not to mention Subs for under £3k (when they were £3500 new iirc) but those brands have all become massively more expensive, rrp's going stratospheric, and as such the residual may be the same (say 50% on tag) but because a carrera is now £3500 instead of £1895, 50% of the higher price is much higher....
Newer members won't have any knowledge of these cheaper prices, nor 5-10% discounts you could get from Rolex back in the day, so will prove their watch accordingly.
As an aside, I've always seen " seller offered me £xxx you can buy for the same" as quite good. It surely means that if you don't bond you can sell it to the dealer yourself with minimal or no loss, having had the pleasure of ownership essentially for "free" but each to their own.
The "spirit of the forum" is still alive and well on the forum.
I too can't comment on how things were a few years ago. I like reading the posts, especially from the watchmakers. And I've been introduced to a bunch of brands as a result of my exposure here. Damn you all.
But can anyone shed light on why there were 7,016 members online on the evening of 31st January 2016? Was there a mass gathering after everyone had filed their tax returns?
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