How and when do you decide it's time to pull the plug on a marriage?

[deepreddave]

Definitely. I would never have walked out on my three boys, no matter what.

That's a laudable sentiment but in reality everyone's situation is different and an inflexible stance regardless of everything else wouldn't always be better for the children. No one starts off wanting to separate but relationships break down for many reasons and two happy loving households can be better for children than one with two unhappy parents struggling to get along.

Good luck Martylaa and everyone else who is going through tough times in a relationship, there can be better times ahead whether you are successful in staying together or not.

https://www.aaanativearts.com/native...-his-moccasins

[zanderpants]

Definitely.

I would never have walked out on my three boys, no matter what.

Having seen someone I know sit through 15 years of a horrible marriage 'for the kids' I can tell you that he spends most of the time looking like he wants to die and all of his kids have to live through it as well. They are well aware that mum and dad don't get on and fight a lot and to one extent or another all the kids have ended up being messed up and will go on to have an unhealthy view of what a relationship is.

In my opinion it is cruel to the family and you only get one life, being miserable should not be something that is the norm......


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[adam164]

My partner & I split three years ago after 16 years together, in the end we were more friends than a partnership. My lad, who was 9 at the time, took it very well, his main concern was where his XBox would be! Fortunately, they have moved less than half a mile from me, so I get to see my son every other night & every other weekend.

Looking back, it was the best thing splitting. The ex got married last week, and I have found a new partner who, in all my friend's eyes, is a marked improvement on my ex. I too was unhappy, the relationship was stale, stagnant. Sleeping in separate rooms, periods of non talking and not doing things as a couple became the norm. Now the ex & I get on better than we have for years! It may be due to doing what's best for Daniel, but now we talk very amicably, and things are infinitely better, now.

Yes, it was hard when we parted, but believe me, after years of non activity, it sure feels good now to have the yoke of depression lifted from me.

Just my 2p worth

Adam

[Martylaa]

Definitely.

I would never have walked out on my three boys, no matter what.

Well done you, but everyone's relationships/marriages are different and sometimes it's better for the children not to be brought up in a home where their parents just don't get along and are living a fake existence.
That's my case and I realise it's not the same for all but I was just commenting to try and show it's a hard decision but sometimes it's the only right one to do...

[Neil.C]

Well done you, but everyone's relationships/marriages are different and sometimes it's better for the children not to be brought up in a home where their parents just don't get along and are living a fake existence.
That's my case and I realise it's not the same for all but I was just commenting to try and show it's a hard decision but sometimes it's the only right one to do...

I can only go by my own experience.

My Mum and Dad argued a lot but would never have thought of separating for the sake of me and my sisters and I am so glad they did, it would have killed my sisters and I to be bought up in a split family, especially with the chance of step parents. Awful.

No matter how rosy some post it it must be mortifying for the children, even if they put up a brave face on the outside you maybe don't know how they are being torn apart on the inside. I know I would have been.

Once you decide to have children they are the number one priority and your or your partners selfish wishes have to go on the back burner.

I have enormous respect for both my parents (RIP Dad) because even though they didn't get on too well they sacrificed themselves for their children which in my opinion is highly laudable and more noble than the easy way out.

[deepreddave]

I can only go by my own experience.... it would have killed my sisters and I to be bought up in a split family, especially with the chance of step parents. Awful..... your or your partners selfish wishes have to go on the back burner.... more noble than the easy way out.

I respect your right to an opinion but please bear in mind that your parents didn't separate so you seem to be speaking from a position of zero personal experience of it. My personal experience of separation is that it's usually the last resort without which staying together would be so toxic as to be worse, the decisions are too complex to be perjoratively characterised as selfish or ignoble.

Don't misunderstand me, I'd much prefer every family stayed happy together and think we ought to offer more support/education than we do for those that struggle however where that's not possible then it's right that the days of living miserably because separation is taboo are over. Contrary to your expectations many children come through it well adjusted, step parents can have positives and seeing adults in loving relationships sets a better example than the opposite. I suppose I'm just saying that separation isn't preferable to a happy home with both parents but it's possibly better than a very unhappy one.

[Martylaa]

I respect your right to an opinion but please bear in mind that your parents didn't separate so you seem to be speaking from a position of zero personal experience of it. My personal experience of separation is that it's usually the last resort without which staying together would be so toxic as to be worse, the decisions are too complex to be perjoratively characterised as selfish or ignoble.

Don't misunderstand me, I'd much prefer every family stayed happy together and think we ought to offer more support/education than we do for those that struggle however where that's not possible then it's right that the days of living miserably because separation is taboo are over. Contrary to your expectations many children come through it well adjusted, step parents can have positives and seeing adults in loving relationships sets a better example than the opposite. I suppose I'm just saying that separation isn't preferable to a happy home with both parents but it's possibly better than a very unhappy one.

Exactly what he said, I respect your opinion but my circumstances were different.
As someone else posted no one marries with the intention of breaking up a family, I know I didn't.

But it does happen more and more in society today?
Good luck OP hopefully your decision is the right one for you and your family.

[CriticalMass]

Clearly there is no simple answer to this. However, from my own experience you can move on from a marriage whilst retaining a close and productive relationship with your children.
I did this 30 years ago; I have a great relationship with my daughter and her children.
It was hard in the first couple of years but you have to stick at it. It helps if you can achieve a non-rancorous split. Again, not easy but possible

[verv]

Kids from a sad marriage vs kids from an amicable separation.

In my experience the former fare worse than the latter so "staying together for the kids" is a bit of a misleading path. Plus if you're amicable and adult about it joint custody and decision-making isn't beyond the realms of possibility.

Kids can feel and absorb the misery of unhappy marriages. In my opinion better to be separate happy and positive role models than imprisoned stewing ones.

Hard times either way OP and I wish you the best.

[Passenger]

I can only go by my own experience.

My Mum and Dad argued a lot but would never have thought of separating for the sake of me and my sisters and I am so glad they did, it would have killed my sisters and I to be bought up in a split family, especially with the chance of step parents. Awful.

No matter how rosy some post it it must be mortifying for the children, even if they put up a brave face on the outside you maybe don't know how they are being torn apart on the inside. I know I would have been.

Once you decide to have children they are the number one priority and your or your partners selfish wishes have to go on the back burner.

I have enormous respect for both my parents (RIP Dad) because even though they didn't get on too well they sacrificed themselves for their children which in my opinion is highly laudable and more noble than the easy way out.

Agree with your point about the decision to have children as the number one priority, it should imo be viewed as a larger commitment than just marriage.

[watchcollector1]

Kids from a sad marriage vs kids from an amicable separation.

In my experience the former fare worse than the latter so "staying together for the kids" is a bit of a misleading path. Plus if you're amicable and adult about it joint custody and decision-making isn't beyond the realms of possibility.

Kids can feel and absorb the misery of unhappy marriages. In my opinion better to be separate happy and positive role models than imprisoned stewing ones.

Hard times either way OP and I wish you the best.

Exactly, a toxic marriage usually means unhappy kids. My Mum wishes her parents had split up when she was young.

[samswatch]

Thanks again more food for thought.

I wish my parents had split up when I was younger. They didn't and the repercussions are being felt even now. My father passed away a few years ago, and my mother has been living her life. She is much happier or so she tells me.

I am damned whatever decision I make. I do recognise that even now when I am with them on my own, we are all just more relaxed. I am sure its the same when they are with their mother. 17 years of trying and struggling, just can't be wiped out.

I really wish (like all parents) I had the magic bullet that would wipe the kids pain etc all away, I don't and I don't even know how to minimise it, but I have keep trying to do what is best for them.

I have some sympathy for Neil's comments. I feel that the leaving decision is almost a 'coward's way out' (at least to me), and I should try harder, be different, anything, something. But even then am I doing the right thing for the children, do they know I am pretending, faking it till I make it?

In the same breadth, I don't want to be lying on my death bed, thinking 'fuck was it really worth it', did me staying really make a difference or was it worse?

A family member committed suicide recently and he as a driven man, running marathons, doing long cycle rides, meditative, and it was a shock. He was 65, financially secure, lovely grandchildren etc and had just retired. I have a fear that fate will befall me, that I will get there wondering where it all went.

I really have to remember to keep breathing lol

[helidoc]

Hey Sam,

This is part advice, part sharing of experience, and part catharsis.

My divorce was finalised 9 months ago my ex-wife initiated it 12 months earlier. We had been married over 15 years, and our children were 12, 14 and 17 at the time. Looking back on it, I am the happiest I have ever been, I'm in a wonderful new relationship, and will probably get married again. It's all so personal to each of us, and I think it is difficult to give generic advice. I knew my marriage was over, there had been signs for probably 10 years, but the last 3 had seen a constructive dismissal campaign by my ex. I tried to tough it out and stay for the kids but eventually it all reached crisis point, and I was given the choice of leaving the house, or she left with the children. “Easier for you to go” he said, so I accepted the inevitability and left.

Being out of a corrosive environment allowed me to rediscover me, and everything is dramatically better with one exception. My children are weaponised, I have no relationship with my stepson, my 16 year old I haven't seen or spoken to in 20 months, and my daughter only messages occasionally for money. I didn't see the that happening with my middle child, as we were always so close, or so I thought. I think he idolises and takes the lead from his elder brother. My daughter was in contact for about 6 months, but now ignores me. This was one of the effects of being out of the home, my ex, and my eldest son got to control the narrative. The only choice I had was to be kind and dignified, so I chose that. People ask me how I can bear it, but it is in the nature of human beings to adapt, and I have adapted.

So how do you know it's over? It's often so progressive, or just slowly corrosive that the change is imperceptible, until you look how far you have come. At the end of Relate efforts I realised it was inevitable, but for me there was one event that I couldn’t forgive. Despite that I was too afraid to initiate divorce, I didn't want to be seen to be the one breaking the marriage, I worried about the effect on the children, and I thought it would be financial suicide. I the end after months of keeping my head down, it was taken out of my hands, but I think I had emotionally checked out of the marriage by then. I think that had my children been spoken to earlier, they would have understood, and the outcome for me in terms of communication with them may have been better. Mine were fairly grown up though.

Relate. We went for two blocks, 4 weeks rather speedily terminated, then 17 weeks. I always tried to say something kind, she never failed to put the boot in. I the end she said divorce was the outcome, and I do remember biting back, something like "I'm here to try and save our marriage, I think you are here for an audience, but whatever your reasons they do not include fixing our marriage". Relate didn’t work for us, but it is a good organisation, and I wouldn't pull the plug on a marriage without this, unless something unforgivable has happened.

Some things I learnt
I was told by divorced friends that there was life after divorce. I couldn't see that at the time, but it has been very true for me

Friends and partners split on party / gender lines, but I found out who my friends really were

I kept my sanity through work, true friends, keeping healthy, cycling a lot, and even re-engaged with TZ-UK a bit!

Legally , once initiated it is a rolling juggernaut, but I found it helpful to focus on the choices I had, which was being dignified, decent, maintaining my financial responsibilities to the family


If divorce is the answer, then reasonable people should be able to mediate. We tried it, but my ex-would not negotiate and wanted everything. I told the mediator that I could spend £20K to go to court, and get a vastly better outcome, and this was what happened. In the end, it went to stage 2 of court (FDR) but my settlement was vastly better than what mediation offered.

I'm very pro marriage, and will do it again. If it isn't over I would try Relate, and if children are old enough, speak to them before the crisis really hits. If it truly is over, then deal with it quickly, ideally mediate. For all the issues for me with children, divorce offered quite a beautiful new beginning and opportunity for reinvention. I wouldn't go back for all the money in the world.


Dave

[samswatch]

Thanks for sharing Dave.

Luckily we have separate friends and in terms of family, we go to hers not mine. The latter because she does not really agree with their views etc.

Its the children part I struggle with and mine are 8 and 10, so I have no idea how that will pan out.

As I am the one asking for the divorce, I am already public enemy number 1, so that is something I am going to have to work through. Out of interest, and I should know this, but at what age can the children decide to see/ not see the other parent.

I have already been told, that if they dont want to see me, she will not force them too.

[helidoc]

If you can have a mature discussion with your wife, then that would be best. You may have a shared care arrangement, which would keep you in their lives. Once you go (I was forced) then in the short term it is up to the mother to ensure they see you. If my situation had been reversed, i.e. the kids with me and her gone, I would have ensured contact, but, divorce can be very toxic.

I don't think you need to worry too much, as if you can't discuss it, then you should mediate an appropriate solution. You can ask for a mediators help here. If that all fails and it goes to court, it isn't just about money, but also about access. Courts will want what is best for the children, and that means time with both parents. I think it is very unlikely that they would cut a father out of the children's lives, unless there was a compelling safety / behavioural issues. When we went to court it was purely money and assets, as my children had reached a point that they will do what they want, and parents or courts can't enforce matters. Teenagers are tricky (!!), but I don't think that is your position.

Legal advice is very helpful, my divorce lawyer was actually terrific, not just for advice, but also a very child centric approach, and a decent human being.

BW

Dave

[studly]

Treat em mean keep em keen!

Seriously though if you go through with divorce your kids may go mental. Amy Winehouse blamed her father leaving when she was a kid for most of her problems, and every divorced kid i have came across has gone off the rails one way or the other.

You should also get over the fear of losing your kids, as they may get hit by a bus or struck down with a terminal disease tomorrow.

As for your mariage, meh... that is an easy problem to solve... have an affair and then bail when the kids leave home.

[studly]

To be brutally honest you wanted to have kids and they are now your responsibility, so why are you putting your happiness first and going to bail on them?

You sound pretty selfish to be fair, and as for worrying about your kids never wanting to see you again i would be more worried about my daughter going through puberty earlier because her father has left home and her being down the local bus shelter being abused by all the local lads at age 14 because she has a skewed mindset about men because her father taught her that they don't give a crap and then bail and leave you on your own.

[zanderpants]

To be brutally honest you wanted to have kids and they are now your responsibility, so why are you putting your happiness first and going to bail on them?

You sound pretty selfish to be fair, and as for worrying about your kids never wanting to see you again i would be more worried about my daughter going through puberty earlier because her father has left home and her being down the local bus shelter being abused by all the local lads at age 14 because she has a skewed mindset about men because her father taught her that they don't give a crap and then bail and leave you on your own.

So in your view a 'real man' should stay regardless of how broken a marriage is and kids growing up in a house where their parents dont love each other and all the ensuing misery is preferable? Honestly that is such a black and white/narrow view of the world, I would suggest the OP completely disregards the above comments.........


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[Martylaa]

To be brutally honest you wanted to have kids and they are now your responsibility, so why are you putting your happiness first and going to bail on them?

You sound pretty selfish to be fair, and as for worrying about your kids never wanting to see you again i would be more worried about my daughter going through puberty earlier because her father has left home and her being down the local bus shelter being abused by all the local lads at age 14 because she has a skewed mindset about men because her father taught her that they don't give a crap and then bail and leave you on your own.

Is this just a blatant trolling?

Not sure what your trying to achieve with comments like yours...