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Thread: 80 x 12 = 61

  1. #1
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    Talking 80 x 12 = 61

    The answer is Maas van Beek, cancer survivor, on beetroot juice....

    The stories of the world of ´stayeren´ are beyond imagination and the Dutch are the main cyclists keeping it alive.

    In the first decades of the 20th century it was the cycling sport with by far and then some the most spectators and the prize money was higher than today even. It was also rather risky; 60 deaths in 4 decades.
    Today it has become safer, the public almost absent and the prize is the honour.

    One of THE oddest characters in the sport is Maas van Beek, the holder of the world hour record with 66.119 km/h.

    Last Februari he trained for >68 km/h, again in Moscow, with 80 x 12:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp0BvfFaV7M
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp0BvfFaV7M
    The attempt was to take place in March.
    He failed.
    Well not he, he never had a crack because of red tape.

    Here his record run on 21-05-2010
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k1CjHVSPAE

    Surreal.

  2. #2
    Master Papa Hotel's Avatar
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    What's he talking about?

    Anyone??

  3. #3
    My head hurts.

  4. #4
    Master itsgotournameonit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa Hotel View Post
    What's he talking about?

    Anyone??
    Not a clue.

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    Grand Master Griswold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa Hotel View Post
    What's he talking about?

    Anyone??
    He's trying to say that "One on't cross beams gone owt askew on treddle"
    Best Regards - Peter

    I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.

  6. #6
    Master Papa Hotel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griswold View Post
    He's trying to say that "One on't cross beams gone owt askew on treddle"
    Well why didn't he just say that?

  7. #7
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    Noo, jest watt ha yoo bin up ta cet?

  8. #8
    He did say it's surreal. ;-)


    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

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    Wel, yes, it is a bit of a limitation when an only English speaker, but it nevertheless is a fascinating world that ´stayeren´ (which is a dutchified English word).
    Also 80 x 12 is universal. VERY oval btw.

  10. #10
    Master Papa Hotel's Avatar
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    You speak English perfectly well Priscilla, this is a nonsense thread for attention. More fool me for responding.

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    Master KavKav's Avatar
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    Canst t'lad rade tandem? Well, canst he?

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    Craftsman eletos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa Hotel View Post
    What's he talking about?

    Anyone??
    I assume 80 teeth on the front and 12 teeth on the rear sprocket? Guessing this guy is the current record holder for distance covered in 1 hour. I recall Sir Bradley has a go at it a few years ago.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #13
    Grand Master Griswold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa Hotel View Post
    Well why didn't he just say that?
    I don't know. Mr Wentworth just told him to come in here and say that there was trouble at the mill, that's all. He didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition.
    Best Regards - Peter

    I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by eletos View Post
    I assume 80 teeth on the front and 12 teeth on the rear sprocket? Guessing this guy is the current record holder for distance covered in 1 hour. I recall Sir Bradley has a go at it a few years ago.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Did Wiggins user a motor pacer?

    Seems an odd event, what's the purpose of the pacer? Just to create a slipstream?

    https://youtu.be/JLTf1_SN8MQ

    https://youtu.be/QIJPy-mW05A




    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  15. #15
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eletos View Post
    I assume 80 teeth on the front and 12 teeth on the rear sprocket? Guessing this guy is the current record holder for distance covered in 1 hour. I recall Sir Bradley has a go at it a few years ago.
    Two different things.
    van Beek's distance of 66.639km (set Oct 25th 2012 and ratified by UCI November 26th 2012) was set behind a derny.
    The UCI Hour Record (UCI spec bike with no draft and no pacing) is currently held by Sir Bradley Wiggins. They also recognise Chris Boardman's record as the 'Best Human Effort' although almost everything about it (aero helmet, monocoque frame, riding position etc) would now be outside the rules.

    As an aside, the hour record without a saddle is still held by Fausto Coppi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyCasper View Post

    Seems an odd event, what's the purpose of the pacer? Just to create a slipstream?
    ´Odd´ only for those who don´t know about it AND are a bit conservative in their tastes. I can imagine that it is not widely known in the UK because it was not even during the heydays of it. It was very much a Continental European thing , much more so than in the US even where it was massively popular too. At the time though the large expanse of the US was still limiting. It was after all before distances got shorter in time by the development of the automobile and aircraft and Europe was simply WAY denser populated so larger crowds gathered more easily and readily.

    Track racing bicycles behind motorbikes developed VERY early on in the history of track racing.
    In the early days of bicycle racing bikes were the fastest thing on the planet for several decades. This lasted untill motorcycles became fast enough and even that was partly in function of making bike racing faster, more spectacular. It even pushed the development of motorcycles ahead and Indian has it´s birthplace in it. It was THE because of why/how Indian started; a track racing promoter got together with a motorcycle pioneer to develop and built faster motorcycles for drafting track cyclists, more spectacle.

    The latter, the spectacle, was literally the life blood of track racing and the slipstreaming events ruled spectator sports. That is why the riders earned fabulous amounts of money; it drew large crowds and the risked their lives.
    Now it has t be understood that life was not seen as precious as today. Life expectancy of the average worker was low and the common man was also cannon fother at an unimaginable scale. As such taking a risk at the track was not seen as such stupid rik and less still because it was actually worth it in gold.

    When I was a little kis my father took me to those ´stayeren´ events in the Amsterdam Olympic velodrom. The sound of the last of the thundering big twins, the smell of the oil/gasoline, the incredible sensation of speed! We were sitting CLOSE and the max speeds surpassed 90 k/h when duelling for position or a lap.

    Then too the Derny had been developed, mainly to make things safer. These still whize about with the rider pedalling to maintain the speed of the moped more precisely.
    The latest development is electric mopeds.
    I understand both but it does make the events rather ´sterile´. Like F1 without the noise, without the racers being allowed to race, with a safety halo etc. All very laudable but .... it does kill the spectacle.

    Anyway, stayeren is still alive and kicking in the Netherlands with some support from Germany and Poland.
    Maas van Beek is the world hour record holder stayeren. Stayeren too is submitted to the exact same regulations about the bicycle. This regulation basically states that the bike must look like the one Eddy Merckx used in Mexico in 1972. That still is the most outstanding performance in world hour record history imo. By far.
    Mercxk also won track events, even competed behind the Derny in his early days. Later he would make extensive use to train behind the Derny on the open road.

    p.s. There were road racing events behind the Derny too. Classics even! Bordeaux - Paris was one.

    Last edited by Huertecilla; 19th August 2017 at 11:54.

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    For the lighter side of things


  18. #18
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    And away from the track, moto-training has a long history. If a rider can get a good tow and drive a bigger gear than they would otherwise, it will have benefit when the tow's not there.


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    Meanwhile, back at the chicken coop, Free verse, applaud, nonsense, Bicycle, Solomon, Free verse, applaud, political wisdom, satire ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeColdplayHistory View Post
    And away from the track, moto-training has a long history.
    Shorter than the track one though as first the motorised vehicles AND the roads had to develop ;-)


    Thanks for the photo.
    The drafting behind cars is nowadays so much easier to organise, even if not all that legal. Cars are everywhere and although a break is better, any hatchback will do; just open de rear lid and presto - a suction device.

    Derny bikes have become very VERY scarce. There is only one source left Rik Lievens in Belgium and the bikes are handbuilt, costly gems. The Olympic Committee ordered 6 identicals by him for the Athens olympics.

    Here an earlier one by him:


  21. #21
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    Right...


    Wrong...

  22. #22
    My local velodrome Herne Hill has stayer racing at the good Friday meeting, great to watch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    My local velodrome Herne Hill has stayer racing at the good Friday meeting, great to watch.
    That sure is wonderful.
    When the old V-twins finally ran on their last legs, new motorcycles were developed using BSA twins. These were highly successful and soon followed by adapted Triumphs. It does not really matter; those larger capacity bikes all offer a great spectacle. Thanks for sharing.

    Notice the smaller front wheel of the bicycle and ´revse´ forks to get closer to the bar and have better sight/control.
    Alco look at the ear cover of the motorcyclist; his ears are covered with only apertures at the back, keeping ot as much noise as possible and optimise hearing the cyclist´s shoutings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeColdplayHistory View Post
    Wrong...
    Ah well, sign of the times. Formula 1 has a Formula E counterpart and that is in the open air even. Cleaner, more quiet , politically correct and all.
    I don´t have to LIKE it though.
    Nothing like the old 2400 cc Meier BAC:



    The Anzani; Only seen those in exhibition runs though.



    and a ´Vredestein´ version of the BAC. Man what a sound, smell and sight!! Imagine a 2400 cc. V-twin thundering by...
    It is now in the Stayerdrome; a Dutch museum about stayeren.

    Last edited by Huertecilla; 19th August 2017 at 14:19.

  25. #25
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Ah well, sign of the times. Formula 1 has a Formula E counterpart and that is in the open air even. Cleaner, more quiet , politically correct and all.
    I don´t have to LIKE it though.
    I have no principles objection to the concept of an e-Derny but, as someone whose primary cycling interest is mountain biking that 'thing' offends me. There's something wrong about a dual crown fork with (what looks like 180mm+ travel) and a slick tyre. Also that rear mudguard makes me feel a bit queasy.

    One thing I do like about a trad derny is the way they look like someone out for a leisurely bike ride minding their own business completely unaware of the tail of cyclists behind them. I'm sure that's just an illusion - it must be a skilled job and they must be very aware of what's happening behind them.

  26. #26
    Does look whacky, riding behind an m/c.

    And those old Triumphs, sitting right over the back wheel! Oddity...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sestrel View Post
    And those old Triumphs, sitting right over the back wheel! Oddity...

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    and sometimes



    The cyclist lost the ´rol´ and the motorcylist behind him could not evade in time, meaning his draft could not evade eitther.

    Al escapes ..well not unschated, they were quite scathed, but nothing broken.

  29. #29
    Master Dan83bz's Avatar
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    In the early days of bicycle racing bikes were the fastest thing on the planet for several decades
    You mean....besides trains, cheetahs and marlins?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan83bz View Post
    You mean....besides trains, cheetahs and marlins?
    In his own psycho bubble as usual.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    In his own psycho bubble as usual.


    Sigh.
    As usual.

    Man, are you guys really that negative and petty?!
    Ah well, it is your life you are losing out on.

  32. #32
    Master Dan83bz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Sigh.
    As usual.

    Man, are you guys really that negative and petty?!
    Ah well, it is your life you are losing out on.
    Wasn't trying to offend, was genuine curiosity. I do get if we talk about road-going vehicles alone, bicycles could have been the fastest since they were used long before their internal combustion engine larger cousin or automobiles, but in terms of absolute speed achieved (on Earth), I doubt bicycles ever held any although I could be wrong of course.

  33. #33
    Master
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    Well I thought the baffling initial post turned into quite an interesting one!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan83bz View Post
    Wasn't trying to offend, was genuine curiosity. I do get if we talk about road-going vehicles alone, bicycles could have been the fastest since they were used long before their internal combustion engine larger cousin or automobiles, but in terms of absolute speed achieved (on Earth), I doubt bicycles ever held any although I could be wrong of course.
    I assumed that, in the context of the thread subject, the reader would get that I was talking about man made road going ´things´.

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    Back to the subject, cycling, stayeren, the importance of the early bicycles and the early cycling sport heroes is easy to illustrate.

    Piet van Neck was a rather anti social element and his supporters rif raf, hooligans from the dark corners in Amsterdam. Despite the trouble he and his supporters caused, he was immensely popular with the public and thus the organizers who paid him good money to attract crowd to their event.
    When he died on the track in Leipzig, 1914, some 80.000!!! attended his funeral and his grave, paid by the supporters, is now, over a century later, an official sports monument.



  36. #36
    Master demer03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Sigh.
    Man, are you guys really that negative and petty?!
    Dude....

    Dude......

    The irony boggles the mind

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    .....
    Last edited by Reeny; 20th August 2017 at 15:23. Reason: Insults removed - you wouldn't get it anyway

  38. #38
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeny View Post
    80 x 12 = 61

    You are of course correct, just like you always are because you are so clever and charming.
    How did I miss the obvious link to man-mad things from the "80 x 12 = 61" title.
    Dooooh
    I must be so thick and stupid.
    Only slightly complicated by the fact that his 80x12 gearing resulted in a speed of 66kph...

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeColdplayHistory View Post
    Only slightly complicated by the fact that his 80x12 gearing resulted in a speed of 66kph...
    The 66 record was on a lower gear when age 53 and the 80 x 12 was at the age of 61.

  40. #40
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    The 66 record was on a lower gear when age 53 and the 80 x 12 was at the age of 61.
    Ah... silly old me!

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    a cool!!! modern marketing initiative by TREK

    http://granfondo-cycling.com/trek-e-...wered-diamant/

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeColdplayHistory View Post
    Ah... silly old me!
    just got lost in translation

  43. #43
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    In German there is a wealth of information.
    The keywords are ´Schrittmacher´ and ´Steherrennen´.

    The Opel 4-cil. motorcycle was converted too;


  44. #44
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    and this is how the spectacle started; before motorized vehicles were invented:



  45. #45

    Cool




    Never even knew Opel made m/c,s . Love them! Art on wheels

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by sestrel View Post
    Never even knew Opel made m/c,s .
    They were Germany´s first motorcycle manufacturer.
    Fritz von Opel himself earned himself the nickname ´Raketenfritz´ with his rocket projects;




    It was never used for drafting cyclists though...

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    COOL!!!

    As a kid I saw this guy, Noppy Koch, on that ´Vredestein´ 2400 cc. BAC bike in that stadium!

    Taken in front of the Amsterdam Olympic Stadium with the velodrome:



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    Joop Zoetemelk

    The earlier photo of the cyclist behind a Derny rider with a kid on it´s back was of Joop Zoetemelk btw.

    He also trained with his wife riding the Derny


  49. #49
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    I liked Joop!
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  50. #50
    from a cyclists perspective your opening title is misleading, surely it should be gear inches? in this case 80x12 = 175 GI

    anyone who has ridden fixed road or on the track speaks in GI because with ratios it is not always obvious if one set of numbers is harder than the other whereas “ i’m running 68’ on my winter trainer but 90’ for my sprint sessions down the track" is easily understood.

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