Reply With QuoteServiced could just mean some monkey has had the back off and squirted a bit of WD into it.
You see it often, dealers stating that they have had the watches they sell 'serviced'. But serviced by who? To what standard? Dealers often work to tight margins, a genuine full service would push prices up further. The biggest, Watchfinder has a wonderfully obscurantist paragraph which avoids actually saying their watches have been serviced. So they probably haven't.
Others do make these claims without real details. I bought a lovely IWC which, I was told, had been fully serviced. It turned out that the watch had no lubrication and hadn't been serviced for many years. This from a major dealer in used watches.
Who can you trust? How can you tell? Personally, if the watch doesn't have a service receipt from a good technician, I ignore all claims of 'serviced.' Too cynical?
Last edited by paskinner; 7th August 2017 at 10:33.
Serviced could just mean some monkey has had the back off and squirted a bit of WD into it.
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
You are right and the sensible way of looking at it without a recognised service receipt and warranty from the likes of Rolex, Omega, STS etc etc it hasn't happened and you regard the watch as having no service history and therefore it probably needs doing.
The last so called serviced watch I got from a dealer was running like a 3 legged dog. On top of that the stem was bent and hands damaged.
I will always allow for getting a used watch serviced now.
You could get lucky though; I once bought a Seadweller from WF advertised with very little info. It arrived with service stickers still in place and 22 months Rolex warranty remaining.
This has always bothered me about the second hand market (not specifically this forum, but watches in general).
We all know roughly how much it costs to service watches.
How is it that people expect to receive the same price for a watch unserviced versus the same watch just serviced?
I feel like it needs to be taken into account when for some brands a service can cost around 15% of the value of the watch.
Last edited by flareslove; 7th August 2017 at 10:42.
If my experience of dealers is anything to go by you can assume there was no proper service.
Unless you get a written service guarantee.
Many watches lie in drawers for a long time before sale. Even new ones.
I often get 'serviced' watches which are bone dry of lubricants and have very poor amplitudes.
Brendan(webwatchmaker)
I recently bought a second hand watch that was described as being serviced by a 3rd party, and had the box and all paperwork.
When it arrived it was a box for a different brand of watch, and the only paperwork was a service receipt from themselves, nothing about a 3rd party.
And yes, I sent it back.
It's like the meat in a restaurant: if they've paid for hand-reared marshmallow-fed born-on-Christmas-Day chickens, they'll be mentioning the fact as soon as possible in the menu. Otherwise, assume it's just factory farmed in the most depressing way imaginable.
Similarly, if a vendor isn't shoving the service receipt down your throat, assume it be appreciative of proper work sooner rather than later, having received no more than two minutes attention from the vendor.
(Sadly this rule can even apply when buying from a friend 😭 )
Did you return it under warranty?Originally Posted by paskinner
Watchfinder only says the watch has been inspected and meets time tolerances/standards whatever:
This Rolex has undergone a thorough inspection of water resistance, accuracy, functionality and condition to determine the level of reconditioning required to meet our strict standards. It has also been referenced against technical documents and manufacturer records where available to ensure authenticity and a clean history.
It doesn't actually say 'serviced'. But if it did claim a service had been done and the watch also has a warranty, wouldn't you just return it when/if it goes wrong?
Unless there is a service receipt, then assume it hasn't been done.
Over here "service" or "maintenance" can mean anything, but is usually qualified. Often "serviced (polished the outside)". Which I take to mean a Cape Cod has been waved over it. At least it is honest.
Whereas "overhauled" means exactly that. The better dealers here will explain exactly what they've done, as they run their own service centres with their own staff. They will also put the watch on a timegrapher for you.
If the shop doesn't have itemised service paperwork or is unwilling to demonstrate the performance, I assume nothing!
Last edited by Tokyo Tokei; 7th August 2017 at 14:44.
No, I got it sorted at my expense. I don't buy from that dealer, and I now allow for a full service...which means I don't buy from such dealers, because the watches become over-priced. My view is that all second hand watches over five-years old should come with a full service. Then the prices might make a bit more sense.
Every single dealer has an 'ex-Rolex' watch repairer working for them. Last time I was told this by a dealer asking about £2k over the odds for an Air King, I asked for the name of their watch repairer and they refused to tell me, instead giving me all the bollocks about it being covered by their warranty. Yes, well, great. It doesn't take long to regulate and clean a watch and then you just hope it doesn't go wrong before the warranty runs out, all the time hoping a customer won't notice the watch isn't keeping time or even worse, accepting that old watches aren't that accurate etc etc etc.
The last and only time I strayed from one of my preferred watch repairers was when I was new to this and dropped off some Seikos for some basic work at a certain local watch emporium. The watches were returned to me three months later, untouched, with the suggestion I find a 'little man' to work on them instead. I was in the shop recently looking at a watch for someone on here and was told about its service by an authorised Rolex repairer but when I asked if they were authorised by Rolex themselves it confused the poor chap who then couldn't produce the paperwork. Of course it may well have been serviced by Rolex, and at the price they were asking you'd expect it to be. I suppose these places aren't trying to sell watches to us lot but to average Joe. Actually, when I was in this place recently someone came in to collect their husband's Rolex, having baulked at the service estimate of something like £250 or £300, so I assume it's not someone accredited. I did remember thinking they'd made the correct decision, if the shop was using the watch repairer who'd failed to sort my Seikos...
I assume that unless a watch comes with paperwork from the manufacturer or someone I trust like Rich Askham or a Duncan it has no service history and will need value adjusted accordingly.
"A man of little significance"
My Explorer II came from Watchfinder. It needed a new mainspring shortly after it was out of warranty. Had I also replaced the hands (a barely visible scratch, but evidence of clumsiness somewhere along the line), it would have been quite expensive. Not a bad deal overall as a flash sale was on, and having been to RSC it's back in tip top condition, but as far as I'm concerned their 'servicing' means next to nothing, and their photography also leaves a lot to be desired, it's hard to judge the condition without having it on approval. I wouldn't rule out using them, but inspect the watch carefully. A lot will probably depend on the previous owner.
I bought two watches from the same dealer which were described as serviced but neither had been (or hadn't been properly serviced) as both had major time keeping issues and one had a major fault which would have been picked up in any service. Every watch on his website is described as serviced but I'm not sure I believe it.
On the other hand another dealer I know definitely does service them. I think he keeps quite a large stock and, when I have agreed to buy a watch, the price always includes him sending the watch away for service and refinishing as required. It means there is a delay between me agreeing to buy and getting the watch but this doesn't worry me.
Last edited by sazzle; 7th August 2017 at 12:07.
It's a movable feast. My last vintage watch which was 'Serviced' had to have about £300 spent on it in total to have an ACTUAL service done- there was muck in the movement, the exit pallet was set too low and the dial wasn't straight. Thankfully I factored this into the cost and knew it would probably need a proper looking at beforehand. After informing the seller to be fair he refunded me £50 or so (which was the cost of the first (and at the time I thought final) stage of work)
If I was buying a watch again online and the price reflected a recent 'service' I'd only allow the extra if there is documented proof of said service with a full rundown of what was done, otherwise I'd walk away.
I'd be much ore likely to buy a watch where the seller said 'no ideas of service history' or similar, if they didn't provide paperwork.
Going by the condition they sent a Blancpain to me (that I sent back) their claim of "strict standards" should be taken with a pinch of salt. I'd be very surprised if they did more than make sure it runs then polish it with a cloth. When I complained they then offered to send it for a service but wouldn't guarantee that it would be Blancpain who serviced it.
I wouldn't NOT use them, but I would now always assume it isn't serviced.
Last edited by Scepticalist; 7th August 2017 at 12:16.
I found this at a jeweller in the Cayman Islands of all places. While I was on holiday my G-Shock had stopped, mentioned it to the salesman while I was looking at a Tissot Sea-Touch. He said they could take it in and have a look, if they couldn't repair there would be no charge. I thought, why not? So he took me upstairs to a fully kitted out workshop - 2 apprentices and the "ex-Rolex" guy in one corner. Upon speaking to him, it turns out he retired out there, works 2 days a week, and did used to work for Rolex. He had a picture of his retirement presentation up on the wall, with loads of certificates and other long service awards etc.
He supervised one of the apprentices, who took the back off the G-Shock. Water ingress. They tried a new battery, but it was knackered. No charge for the attempt.
So yes, I bought the Sea-Touch (and a Hamilton Jazzmaster, along with a Hamilton and an Oris for the wife). Two years later the Sea-Touch's battery died about a week before we were due to go back to Cayman. I took it along, they replaced the battery free of charge, did a full pressure test and also sold me a Seiko Solar diver at the same time.
On his wrist? Seiko 7a Chrono thingy.
Oddly, the last 3 legged dog I saw was running around remarkably well and happily!!!
Don't tend to think use dealers but the two I have was Waltons in Wrexham for a 14060. Price was good no claim of service was made and when the rotor came loose outside of the warranty I paid to get it serviced. Even with the service I didn't lose. The other is Austin Kaye and most of their Rolex go to RSC and their Omega go back to Omega I believe.
In my limited experience, watches do not get `serviced` these days, they have an `intervention`......
Given their prices, that is reassuring I suppose. Do Omega still service all the 60s era and older watches then (Constellations etc) which Austin Kaye have a window full of?
I believe they actually use STS for Omega, they will be getting a decent discount vs the public.
I bought a "serviced" 50s Oyster from a dealer on VRF a couple of years ago. After a couple of months it stopped working. When a watchmaker took the back off he discovered a smudge of glue where there should have been a screw to fix the auto rotor to the movement, and about 30 years of dirt.
At least the seller took it back without question, but it made me very sceptical unless there is a receipt or photographic evidence.
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Most of the ads I see state words to the effect of ' inspected buy our qualified technicians and serviced if required'. So basically worn for a few days and it looks like it's keeping time ok.
I've known of at least '3' dealers who have an ex Rolex guy servicing their watches - Rolex must have a high turn over of staff 😜
Be wary of the 'retired Omega employee' you see selling on ebay. I bought one piece from him which certainly hadn't been touched even though it was claimed as serviced NOS. It barely ran and went straight back.
It isn't a bad idea to buy a cheap timing machine as that is a very quick way to spot the more egregious claims of servicing when none has occurred.
I've looked at a number of 'serviced' watches at dealers over the years. On unscrewing the crown to reveal a thick chunk of crud on many occasions - which I sometimes pointed out to the fibbing salesperson if I could be bothered. I'm afraid I don't believe a word of it any more!
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I bought an Aerospace from an Austrian dealer through Chrono24. The dealer advertised it as having been serviced and fitted with a new battery. I assumed the former was not true as the only evidence of it was that he put 'serviced' on the invoice, but the battery packed up within 6 months so clearly that was rubbish too...
Simon
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You can't even rely on many AD'S these days either.
I had a PP recently, the back was loose after a service in CH. It kept appalling time and had an amplitude around 207°.
I had an omega Seamaster recently serviced at an Omega agent in UK. The calendar changed at 11.30pm.
A Blancpain rattrapante which didn't return the hands exactly to zero...previously serviced in CH.
Rolex Airking recently serviced by Rolex sent to me with several loose screws...I could go on for hours.
Many young watch repairers now only learn how to service one or two models.
They are ill prepared for anything else.
And sadly far fewer are entering this business mainly due to the witholding of spare parts and lack of street cred.
Brendan(webwatchmaker)
This is why I always get nervous by these "what watch for 1500 type threads" as someone will inevitably suggest a 2nd hand chrono that could easily end up costing 500 to service which is OK if you are acquainted with these sort of costs but could be a huge shock if you have spent your entire budget on the watch.
I sent a 60s Omega to Bienne for service. It was returned with a non-original (but Omega) oversized crown and a scratched dial. I was relieved of $600 for this ham-fistery.
I bought my Panerai from a uk dealer, no mention of service in the advert it was a nice surprise to see service paperwork from Panerai dated about 7 days before the watch arrived!
It's not only the second hand purchases that are a worry for me, but also services on watches I already own.
The local watchmaker to me messed up a repair and service on an Orient watch ( its a long story ) so I'm on the lookout for somebody else to do the work on my Mido commander chronograph.
I've found someone who can do it for £150 which I'm told is a decent price . The thing is though, I bought it from sales corner a while ago and it runs fine. I'm only considering getting it done because it's 5 years old and a keeper. What's to stop the guy regulating it, dropping in a touch of oil and then giving it me back saying it's had a full service? How would I know any different?
Ask for before-and-after timegrapher results (dial up and down, at least). Any repairer should be able to do this.
Likewise, any dealer claiming a watch has been fully serviced should leap at the chance to demonstrate the excellent daily rate / amplitude / beat error on the timegrapher. Takes moments.
edit: doesn't tell you everything (were seals replaced? worn rotors, crown tubes? etc.) but should give you an inkling of the overall timing state. That Patek with the low amplitude, for example, clearly suggested it was in need of a service.
Last edited by Tokyo Tokei; 8th August 2017 at 02:00.
This all makes complete sense and is really helpful. What about if you buy from one of the reputable dealers like those recommended on here? I assume you can at least expect a straight answer as to when it was last serviced?
Some of the dodgy stuff mentioned in this thread involves some dealers recommended on TZ. Sad but true.
My rule is, if it hasn't got a written receipt for service from the manufacturer or first rate technician...such as Brendan for example....then assume it needs a service. Don't trust verbal assurances. You want physical evidence.
Yes, the dealer I was referring to in my previous post is certainly one that gets a lot of praise on here.
I bought a Zenith Daytona last year from a German dealer, it arrived with a USB memory stick and on this was a powerpoint presentation recording the servibg that was performed, photo record etc plus a certificate of servicing, it was reassuring.
Keith
That's a cool idea! Was this done by Zenith themselves or the dealer/some third party?
it was done by the dealers watchmaker, Rolex (its a Zenith movement in a Rolex case) wouldnt provide such a record but then nobody is going to question their service standards so they dont need to.
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That Patek *had* already been in for a service within 14 months of going to Brendan. I was none too happy. But that's been covered on other posts. Even the highest end manufactúre are not immune to service slip ups it seems.
And, I see WF now has a complete 'service' operation available where all their watches go for checking and correction.
Martyn
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 8th August 2017 at 18:43.
I trust no one in the watch trade.
When I buy a preowned Rolex, it goes straight to Rolex the same or day after at the latest.
There are too many drongos hacking watches and a Rolex service is the only thin I trust.
When it is back, I relax knowing it has got a few years ahead of it.
Including those who are members of this forum?
I was a Purchasing Manager for over 30 years and believe me, if you did the same job as I did, you would not even trust yourself. So unfortunately I trust no one. I buy at a price which assumes that the service will be at the top end of price and when the watch comes back, I got nothing to cry over.
Also I would not expect you to trust me, so it's just business, nothing personal.
They may go there but going by the watch I received less than 2 weeks ago and sent back immediately they certainly aren't "checked and corrected" in any meaningful way
I have to say it; I don't trust Watchfinder. I would never buy off them again. I know a lot of customers are happy....
I read all the replies here with some concern.
I really love this work and would never dream of sending a watch back without a thorough service.
I'm not perfect but do my very best often sending before and after timegraph readings, when I have time and regulating over a few days allowing the lubricants to bed in.
Having worked at a few Houses in CH I know that most young kids hate watch repairing. Some spend half the day getting stoned in the loos whilst others do the minimum to keep their jobs. The older repairers have more commitment but even they feel they're not paid enough.
I was in the managing directors office of a major house one morning when a guy was seen turning up in his roller with a repair. The MD said to stick an extra CHF1000 on his bill before he had even met the guy.
I thought this was a joke but turned out not to be !
At another smaller House I worked at in Neuchatel the MD sacked all his staff except me and took on his illiterate daughter as receptionist.
I had to do all the repairs until the Japanese owners turned up and gave the MD a serious dressing down.
They then sold the Company to an American consortium.
Profit is the motivation now.
Good service takes second place sadly.
Brendan
Last edited by Webwatchmaker; 11th August 2017 at 08:39.
A very respected watch dealer told me a watch he had for sale had been serviced by him, even though I new the watch had been serviced and all the seals replaced by the guy he bought it off from this very forum, so much for respected, what a load of tosh.
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There's been a recent H&V thread on this subject.
From an SC ad placed by someone who has been the subject of ten hero threads in 2017: "it benefits from a recent service & regulation by an independent, this was a mechanical service."
From the h&v post: "The AD informed me on their opinion the watch had not been serviced in a good while and was in dire need of one. I asked what they had done they said the following had been replaced: centre seconds wheel, 3rd wheel, escape wheel, auto reverser, and dried oil was found."
(If you want to know more about that story, you'll find the thread easily enough) What to conclude from experiences like this? That a claim of having been serviced that is not supported with paperwork / guarantee should be ignored? If the person who did the service isn't standing behind their work.....
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