Problem neighbours - help.

[oldoakknives]

Good luck OP.

They sound like nightmare neighbors and I doubt you're their first victim. Don't get drawn into a war, although it sounds like you're far too sensible for that! I hope it is sorted swiftly and amicably

Probably true. I only realised later in life that some people are just bad eggs and you can't odds it when you come across them.

[PJdB]

Many thanks again everyone. Every post is hugely appreciated :)

Loving the grasshopper idea!


Long story short:


I had a very long chat with the environmental health officer at the council, we spoke at length about all the options and I feel much better for it. Call has been logged under 'harassment'. I have decided at this point not to proceed with any further complaint although my call remains open and I have the officer's direct number.

I have logged a call with the Police in respect to anti-social behaviour.

I have been in communication with the land lady and she has been putting pressure on the lettings agent.

Two of my neighbours (one of 6 years the other of 3 years) have wrote me glowing references!

Lettings agent has requested to meet with these tenants, I have offered to also attend the meeting (offer hasn't been taken up).

Managing agent has stated that they have never had a problem with me in the past.


Upstairs have been pretty good. Since I last posted they have only been noisy in the morning once, and I am not sure whether this was deliberate or just the sound of them mating ;) - I say this as there was some banging, but it was much much quieter and went on for longer (but not especially long!)

Today - I receive a letter from the council stating that there has been a complaint for amplified music. I have spoken again to the officer I spoke to last week, and he said that they have closed that complaint for the moment. They they will have to work very very hard and build a lot of evidence against me before any action is taken, - however, he seems to realise that more importantly, they need to realise where they are in the world, and other people have every right to live their lives and make reasonable noise. No-one is entitled to 100% peace and quiet, especially in a flat :)



THANK-YOU ALL again for your support.

[Fords]

Get an injunction for harassment through the court, she may be able to piss you off and think she's got away with it, but try pissing a judge off.


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[Fords]

Having to regularly deal with people who have a loose connection with reality I would not advise this - not unless you tape the conversation.

Alan, please stop referring to the Manchester GTG like that, you know you can come again.


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[Johnnie]

Get an injunction for harassment through the court, she may be able to piss you off and think she's got away with it, but try pissing a judge off.


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It's difficult to know when you need to escalate these things and when that'll just make things worse. If you went to court they will probably make counter-allegations. Then a judge might require you to give an undertaking (enforceable as an injunction) to keep the noise down in return for making an order against them, on the basis 6 of one...

Then they could claim you'd broken the undertaking just as you could complain against them. The reality is that enforcing by way of committal is a long-shot. It's rarely done and it usually takes several goes. A lot of effort money grief and time for not a huge amount of benefit.

I would get on to the landlord and put gentle pressure to serve them notice to quit. They are probably on a 6-month tenancy. Once the notice expires its a quick and cheapish process to get them out. If they know they're going to have to leave anyway they may go early

[Fords]

Very good, but far too many would, could, maybe's, and might's for my liking, if you follow your own path and take it to that degree of uncertainty who's to say they are not a relative of the landlord.

I am a landlord and no gentle pressure from anyone would end up with me bringing an agreement to an end, unless, they are behind with the rent, then it's only one phone call for the long drawn out process to begin or not as some situations have proved in the past.

Don't sweat the small stuff go for the throat.


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[dkpw]

PJdB - all the best with your situation. I can only offer general advice to be the reasonable one and if as you say the neighbours are unhinged, it will out.

[steptoe]

You've been living there for 6 years and no previous complaints... They've just moved in and complained..

What do you think carries most weight in a dispute ?

[swanbourne]

You need to get in first, anything you do if they take the first action will have far less weight.

Eddie

[PJdB]

UPDATE

Well - actually I won't bore you with ALL the details... - just a couple of highlights.

I spoke to the husband, - he's reasonably placid, - I saw him out in the carpark and I approached him - he was quite defensive with me at first, but I was very polite to him, I shook his hand, and, after a reasonable 5 minute conversation, we both agreed that it would be better for everyone if we could keep the peace. Shook hands again departed.

For about 4 nights, all was peaceful, - and I naively believed that I'd managed to resolve the situation.

I was packing to go away for the weekend, - between 10:15 - 10:45pm. Concentrating on what I needed to take with me I had no radio, tv, music, - nothing on, and I was walking around in socks on my solid oak wooden floor.

Just about to load up the car, the daughter comes down knocking on my door and asks me (politely at least, she didn't get her manners from her Mum), to stop walking around as she is on medication and she is trying to sleep.

I was gobsmacked, but still I politely said "sure, no problem".

I finish packing (about 1 minute later...) and I get massive bangs on my ceiling.

Anyway, I packed the car and left, - when i returned for a number of mornings (7 - 7:30am - I don't usually get up will 8:30), I am getting the most ridiculous aggressive crazy banging on my ceiling (sounds like they're using furniture) and thereafter walking/clomping around in what sounds like high heeled shoes.

I email the landlady again with an update, and suggest that she inspects her property for damage from all the banging.

Tenants then made more complaints about me to the managing agent, - both email and phone, - making up all sorts and threatening not to pay their rent, take me court and loads of other stuff in the most awful almost incomprehensible English - that was the last straw for the managing agent, she has asked both the problem-tenants letting agency, and the landlady to issue them with a Section 21 eviction notice.

Saturday night I receive an email from the landlady informing me that she has instructed the lettings agent to give them a Section 21, - the agents have agreed to send it, and that the tenants will be going.

Since then I haven't heard anything (I have emailed once for an update, but I've so far had no reply, I wont chase again, as I'm sure everyone's fed up with the entire thing). I am worried that they won't leave without a fight, -I've seen "Nightmare tenants and slum landlords" (!!) - and hope they dont drag out an eviction for months and years through the courts etc etc etc

I must say I have been pretty stressed, - in the evenings they are on my mind a lot, even if I put down a plate I am mindful that it may have been too loud and that I'm going to receive massive banging in the morning as revenge. As it stands though I have been quiet as a mouse lately, and they too have behaved themselves in the morning. That's all good, but I haven't been sleeping, and it's been playing on my mind.

I just hope they're going to go as it's stressing me out.

I do wonder whether they WILL go quietly as not doing so may affect their chances of renting another property due to bad references..?


As an aside... - last Friday night I happened to stop at a motorway service station after a night out to grab a KFC, - and who did I see cleaning the tables on the nightshift, - the problem tenant husband who lives above me!

So the wife and daugher sleep all night from about 9pm... and the husband sleeps all day from picking chicken bones up all night

[SteveR]

Wow! IT does sound like it should be on the TV show!

I'm glad there appears to be light at the end of the tunnel, how long that tunnel is, however, is another question! I would hope and pretty much expect it them to be out soonish.

No one should feel like a prisoner in their own home, frightened they're making too much. It's good to see your good reputation has served you well!

[Danstone]

Nightmare Tenants and Slum Landlords was what occurred to me when originally reading this thread. I bet these people have history of making complaints in order to avoid paying rent. It seems that it takes so much time to kick these people out that they end up staying months rent free. Some scum just know how to play the system and it just seems that you were their innocent scapegoat this time.

[Brighty]

I just hope they're going to go as it's stressing me out.

I do wonder whether they WILL go quietly as not doing so may affect their chances of renting another property due to bad references..?

Depends what their intention is for new accommodation, if private renting again, the'll either go quietly of their own accord, to get a good reference.

If they're planning on trying to get a council place, they'll be there to the bitter end, court, bailiffs the works, a good few months. Councils will not re-home people until they show them the eviction notice from the court and will then only pull their finger out on eviction day, so you'll be looking at 2 months for S21 to expire, then apply for court hearing, maybe couple more months, then court hearing, which could get thrown out if there's anything up with the tenancy agreement, wording on the S21, or the deposit is not protected, if that happens it's back to square 1, once court gives eviction notice, then maybe a bit longer to book the bailiffs, then and only then will the council do anything and you'll be shot of them, but it won't be this side of Xmas, maybe nearer next Easter

[PJdB]

Given that they both work... I am assuming that the council won't house them... - so fingers crossed it'll be option one. The managing agent did say that their lettings agent told her that they have viewed a couple of properties... - it was a bit vague though

Even if it is Easter 2018... there's still that light at the end of tunnel :)... - it could've been worse

[OldHooky]

Write to the both the local police (Chief Constable and the Police commissioner) and the local police federation says that one of their members said that the Police Federation was going to use its influence to make a complaint to the council - say you are confused because you thought that the police federation was a union for police officers and you are unclear what its remit is in this matter and could they clear up its involvement in the matter...

If anything does happen paperwork is like gold - the more you generate, the better...

I'd also suggest that mentioning they work for the PF and are going to get them involved, apart from being wrong about what they do, is in fact an abuse of power (were it possible to use the PF in that way and the presumption by the OP is that they could) and is certainly harassment. A formal complaint to the PF would fire a shot across her bows.

[PJdB]

I'd also suggest that mentioning they work for the PF and are going to get them involved, apart from being wrong about what they do, is in fact an abuse of power (were it possible to use the PF in that way and the presumption by the OP is that they could) and is certainly harassment. A formal complaint to the PF would fire a shot across her bows.

I must apologise: I actually missed the reply above from Alan. Thank-you Alan and OldHooky, -... this is great stuff - actually as there was something else that I missed out here (so much has happened).

As said, I am a director of the managing agent company, - but the tenants have confused me with actually working at the managing company... so, they actually dug out every single email address they could of everyone they could find who works for this company, and emailed them all a load of lies about what I have been doing here, and how can such a person work for you etc etc.

It made me laugh at first, as obviously it doesn't affect me in the slightest, but thinking more on it, - if she did actually find out where I work I probably wouldn't have been quite so jovial...

That's an amazing piece of advice above... - I dont want to rile the hornets nest again, but this is a great piece of ammunition which I think i will probably be firing soon.

[JonRA]

I'm not a lawyer but it strikes me if they have been mailing third party defamatory statements about you (even under a misapprehension about your status) then they have committed libel. Assuming the wording of the emails was defamatory (they could probably cast aspersions without defaming you) I would have thought that at some point a solicitor's letter to them might make them think twice about their situation. I'm sure you wouldn't want to initiate a (notoriously expensive ) libel action but it sounds as though you are due an apology.

All in all though I hope it resolves satisfactorily for you ASAP

ATB

Jon

[PJdB]

Great point - many thanks Jon I will bear this in mind.

I am just drafting a complaint to the Police Federation, cc'ing the Chief Constable and Police & Crime Commissioner

[julian2002]

My sympathies for your situation, I've had crappy neighbors in the past the worst being a couple who were continually fighting (and eventually divorced) and liked to come knock on my door and hurl abuse if they heard a peep from me or my daughter in order to take out their frustrations. For example, they are having yet another barney about his infidelity, it goes quiet, my daughter wants to go outside to play and the husband comes a-knocking to tell me to keep her quiet.
I didn't want my daughter to see her dad hit anyone and get carted off so I'd usually apologize, shut the door and ignore it, going about my life in a normal manner. It's difficult when you have a constant drip of harassment but the best thing to do is make concessions where you feel comfortable, and beyond that live your life as normal. I suspect they will be very careful to avoid property damage so as others have said keep a paper / email trail and nip anything like this PF and defamatory emails in the bud with appropriate responses.
In the end they'll be moved on and you can get back to your life.. in the mean time I advise earplugs.

[jaytip]

Just a suggestion, are you able to get the forwarding address of the previous occupants? If so, it might be a good idea to drop them a line and ask them for a reference. If they say they never had an issue with noise it puts you in a much stronger position considering they lived in the complainants flat.

[PJdB]

Thanks again - been trying to live my life as normal, - and I have earplugs!

That's a great idea, - I will see if I can get in contact with the last tenant.

I have sent an email to a number of parties (Chief Constable, Crime & Police Commission, Police Standards Department & of course the Police Federation)... - the Federation & the Police Standsard have both responded saying that no-one by that name works there..! Maybe she's a contractor/cleaner, employed by a cleaning company so they haven't got her name, or something