Reply With QuoteLetterbox?
I've been living here in a lovely flat for about 6 years. I am the Director of the Freehold company, and a Director of the Management company, I have never received a single knock on my door on complaint for the entire 6 years that I have been living here until last week when some new neighbours moved in.
I was playing some music, at very moderate volume (on a little bluetooth speaker that my mobile connects to) at 10:15pm. I had a knock on the door from an eastern european girl who, unbeknown to me, had moved in next door, - she was quite rude telling me that she was trying to sleep and telling me to turn it down. I tried to strike rapport and be nice and polite, but she wasn't interested and just walked off with me standing in the door way.
I felt it rude and shut the door probably a little harder than usual, and turned down the music.
The next day I receive a phone call from managing agent, - she complained that it was after 11pm, that I was smoking, that I didn't speak to her, I just immediately slammed the door in her face.
Since then also, as soon as she wakes up every morning, she bangs her feet very loudly on her floor/my ceiling. I am not going to react back to it and get in a tit for tat war. I have been hoping things will calm down and she will stop.
It seems that there are two girls up there and one guy.
They have issued further complaints, saying that I have been playing music loudly until 3am in the morning.
Today, yet another complaint and she has said that she works for the Police Federation and that they are going to file a complaint to the police and the council.
They have also been knocking on neighbours doors asking if I have been a problem and asking them to sign something which supports their complaint.
I am feeling harassed. The whole situation is bizarre.
I do occasionally play music, at moderate volumes and never in the bedroom (as my flat is laid out the same as theirs), - I only play it in the kitchen on living room (the flats are big with a big hallway which separates the bedroom and hallway). I can only assume that they go to bed early, and I am wondering whether they have people sleeping in the front room which is why they can slightly hear my tv or music if I play it. The flats are very well sound proofed (built in the 70s - all concrete), yet they seem ultra sensitive to anything. I feel like I can't even breath without them making a complaint, and find it bizarre that they dont just speak to me.
What to do? Any advice? Getting a little worried and concerned here!
PS - I don't want to move out, - I love my home, love the location, and am otherwise very happy!
Letterbox?
May I be the first to suggest the "letterbox" solution...?
You're doing the right thing by not reacting in a tit-for-tat manner, in situations like this fighting fire with fire will just create more heat. You say that you've been there for a few years, how well do you know your other neighbours?
Edit - damn, beaten to it...
You're a director of the freehold company and the management company....doesn`t that give you some influence, or have I misunderstood?
I think the complainant has to be pinned down to specific examples and the onus is on her to provide evidence. However, it sounds like she's got some hidden agenda here, possibly she wants you out and thinks some of her friends could move in?
Paul
In the first instance I would tell their managing agent your side of the story. Do it in writing eg by email.
Make sure they get the message that the current situation isn't acceptable to you and you are feeling harassed. If the situation isn't resolved to your satisfaction you will take it further, make an official complaint etc etc etc
Put down plenty of facts of what has happened from your side etc. Make a good record of any future contact you have with your neighbour.
Last edited by seikopath; 19th July 2017 at 13:14.
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Regardless of your status in both the freehold and managing agents, play it by the book/straight bat etc. If other neighbours are of the same view as your new neighbour then you need to concede it's probably you - maybe your hearing is defective or certain frequency of music does travel (70's builds are often shit breeze block construction?).
It's hard to think how anyone would seek out a confrontation over nothing, so why would said neighbour imagine a disturbance?
I wouldn't worry about the 'Police Federation' etc -they'll not be the slightest bit interested and/as it's a civil matter.
If she comes back, maybe politely ask if you can come round to hers and hear for yourself?
Webcam/home cam with sound.
Audio / visual evidence to back up what you're saying and continue life as per usual.
Posted in error.
"Today, yet another complaint and she has said that she works for the Police Federation and that they are going to file a complaint to the police and the council.”
thats bullshit. you can get a statuary notice served where the council noise people pay a visit but if you are not making excessive noise out of hours (7:30-11pm) that isn’t going to happen.
i had 3 years of DIY hell above me in a previous property and i had one of these served but that was due to a huge belt floor sander being used at 10:30pm and plumbing tools being dropped on the floor at 12pm on the wooden floor above my bedroom amongst many other things.
the police will just tell them to stop wasting their time.
if you keep your noise to normal hours and be polite they have nothing to complain about, i would refrain from a tit for tat loudness completion and play it by the book by quoting parts of the lease document re annoying co-tenants.
the fact that you are on the board/management company will help and i guess they are renting. maybe politely say that just because they are working odd hours that other tenants cannot be expected to alter their enjoyment of their property in ‘normal’ hours. (maybe cut and paste the hours suggested on your councils website)
i have used these for tradesmen who decide they want to work on a sunday or do a late one. i hand them the print-out (along with the lease particulars) and say you either stop now or you get reported, only had to do this once.
one bad neighbour turns you into a meldrew!
good luck.
Wireless headphones?
The volume might be low, but one doesn't know how it travels.
Get a hold of your local neighbourhood police officer and arrange to have her/him in your flat for coffee and explain your fear and the feelings. Ask the cops to record the "meeting" as an incident report and to give you a police reference number. Reads to me like you might need her/him to be on side in times to come and this might help.
Buy a Y-cam for your house and have it running all the time. It will detect sound and movement from within your house. Have it trained on your front door. Whilst movement isn't really what you need to record, sound is and it does so very well. The door recording will be enable you to answer your door confidently knowing that what you say and how you act is being recorded. IT IS NOT INTRUSIVE SURVEILLANCE. Also, you don't have to pay for the data storage with this camera either. It records on a 7 day rolling programme so you will be able to prove or disprove noise and acts emanating from your flat via its recordings.
Do you have a concierge or friendly neighbour? if so have them corroborate your version of events from when you lived there prior to the others arriving, till the changes taking place now. Do you know if they have moved to your place from being a problem elsewhere?
Good luck!
Jim
Document/record everything. Keep your phone handy for any encounters outside your home.
Last edited by johny; 19th July 2017 at 14:52.
Are there restrictions within the deeds of conditions on the residents of each flat - being of the same family? There are - quite often.
Could be used to your advantage - if so.
Al
Thank-you all for the amazing response. Hugely appreciated.
I have tried to reply to most of your points below in turn, sorry for not quoting etc, but I have read all comments with great interest.
Letterbox solution? Do you mean to say go around there and chat? I'm happy to do that, - in fact I am tempted to knock this evening (with mobilephone voice recorder running), and genuinely apologise if I have disturbed them, and state that I am more than happy to keep the noise down between the hours of 11pm - 8am.
It might be that I have been nosier than I realise, - maybe sound does travel more than I realise.
I'm not sure what influence being the director of the mgmt company etc does give me, apart from having a good relationship with the managing agents, who, seem to be firmly on my side, - however, they are not sure what to do about the situation either.
I do have other nearby neighbours that I get on with, I had a chat with one a couple of days ago who said that she would be willing to write a reference stating that I have been a model neighbour for the past 6 years. I have just messaged her to take her up on her offer, - I hope it wasn't just words (you know what some people are like - "actually, I don't want to get involved!".
Getting me out and her friends in, - that didn't occur to me, who knows, might be the case.
Good idea to have a listen for myself, - they seem keen to knock on everyone elses doors, but not mine, - so I think I'll have to politely knock on theirs and ask to listen.
I will look into webcam/cctv/Y-cam (never heard of a Y-Cam....)
I will certainly look into getting a neighbourhood police officer around - that's a good idea.
I have and will continue to document everything, however much will be their word against mine. Any future conversations I will certainly record.
Blackal - The noise restrictions state something like no music/noise should be heard outside the flat between the hours of 11pm - 7am. Not sure what you mean - being of the same family
Hi op.
Do you know the owner of their flat?
What a shame, I was going to say the same as Verv, get some recordings done and hopefully she will complain about a incident you can prove didn't happen, she will lose credibility then, a bit drastic but did you know the previous tenant, could they vouch that this isn't typical?
with referance to the noise between the hours of X and Y , her indoors teaches step and various exercise classes in the new village hall built on the site of the old school where there have been built a few new small ish houses. She has had complaints over the noise and nearly been in tears about it . You can hear it a little outside but not to extensive levels or down the road when i dropped by to have a listen and a gawp at the ladies . The locals have even put bollards out with parking for residents only on the cul de sac with the hall having its own car park anyway . She looked into it and tbh she is not doing anything wrong given the time ( 6.30-8.30 pm ) and the noise levels
Its the initial shock and veiled threats that piss you off but you need to be pro active and record everything that is said and done as there will be some motive behind this
Means if they are living in the flat with people who arent actually family members could be in breach of the deeds.Originally Posted by blackal
I would also find out if they are renting, presumably the agent will know this, and as I presume you own your Flat
as you are a Director of the freehold company would suggest you check your deeds as to any restrictions on renting
out your property which would also apply to the other flat. Any kind of information like this might be useful if the situation
cant be sorted out. If there is a mortgage on the flat there may also be limitations on renting the property but finding this out
is obviously more difficult.
I know her email address and her phone number (unless it's changed), as I managed the purchase of the Freehold a couple of years ago, so made contact then. I have emailed her and she said that she would speak to the lettings agent, that was a few days agao, I have chased her again today via email, - thinking of calling her soon, why do you ask?
Good idea in regards to THEIR previous landlords, I will see if there has been complaints made about them previously.
I have just spoken to the Police (101) they have said that the local environmental agency may give me a sound recorder that I can keep in my own flat to check that my noise levels are not in access of court ruled guidelines...
I went through everything with them and they've given me a reference number.
I am very tempted to knock on their door tonight and politely say that I wanted to speak with them and resolve it amicably, as well as apologise... I could also keep my music on and have a listen whilst I'm up there.
I'm a little apprehensive what reception I'll get.
A few days ago, the guy was in his car and revving his engine for over 10 minutes really loudly, - fumes were filling up the flats so my neighbour had to ask them to stop (I was out at the time, but I wonder if it was directed at me), - this sort of behaviour makes me wonder how receptive they are going to be to me trying to resolve the situation amicably face to face...
My neighbour has very kindly agreed to write me a reference, - she has just asked if there's anything particular that I'd like her to mention/focus on ??
The more I hear the more I would be inclined not to go round and knock on their door and keep it all via the agent if you need to make any contact.
I will check into this, - wasn't aware of stipulations like this... I think it would go against many other people (not family members) living in the same flat, and given the precedents, I'm guessing it might not hold much weight... - however, I will still look into this. Interesting point.
I wouldn't go round there mate, especially if you are already apprehensive about doing so. They are obviously not reasonable. Restrict contact to official channels eg their managing agent and make sure there is a record of all communications. Good luck. Let us know how you get on.
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
To gather more information about her tenants and to let her know what is going on.
Noisy neighbours playing loud music at night time.. irritating. Do I complain... yes and always.
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I'd just tell the owner they are a PITA and relay the rest of the info to the agent. It's the agents job to manage the property.
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
[QUOTE=walkerwek1958;4425472]However, it sounds like she's got some hidden agenda here, possibly she wants you out and thinks some of her friends could move in?
/QUOTE]
This^^^^ my first thought.!
Good luck, sounds like a nightmare.
"A man of little significance"
[QUOTE=PJdB;4425683]
A few days ago, the guy was in his car and revving his engine for over 10 minutes really loudly, - fumes were filling up the flats so my neighbour had to ask them to stop.
Was it reported to the police or fire brigade or anyone else? If not it was a missed opportunity.
Last edited by johny; 19th July 2017 at 17:10.
Thanks,
It is called "property of multiple occupancy" and precludes flats from being bought and rented out to a group of students (for example).
"Single family only" would be the term to look for.
Al
Something along the lines of you being a lovely nice and quiet chap - and that your criminal record for ABH & GBH were only as a result of you being unreasonably provoked.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I feel for you. I've had conflict with neighbours before and it just puts you on edge. Good luck.
Reminds me of the job applicant.........
Employer: "What's your greatest weakness?"
Applicant: "I get violent, when disappointed"
Al 😂
^^ This
I don't think going round is going to achieve anything positive. They sound like a bunch of troublemakers.
Write to the both the local police (Chief Constable and the Police commissioner) and the local police federation says that one of their members said that the Police Federation was going to use its influence to make a complaint to the council - say you are confused because you thought that the police federation was a union for police officers and you are unclear what its remit is in this matter and could they clear up its involvement in the matter...
If anything does happen paperwork is like gold - the more you generate, the better...
Last edited by Alansmithee; 19th July 2017 at 17:38.
Presumably it wouldn't do any harm to mention them by name? By harm I mean to the OP; reading this thread I'd say I'm fairly ambivalent about harm to the new neighbours.
The letterbox reference is a bit of a TZ running joke and refers to something brown and smelly being posted through the offenders door
As others have said, it's probably best to keep all comms between the relevant agents or whoever, that and keep it clean on your side so there can be no comeback.
I hope you get the right outcome soon, not being able to relax in your own home due to dodgy neighbours is no fun.
I'd mention them by name because anything after this can seem like retaliation and is harder to explain.
You want to generate as many bits of paperwork and emails as possible to avoid 'he said, she said'.
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Invite them for a coffee or tea
Shock them and talk about it
I am surprised that young people like them go through all these without a reason
Having to regularly deal with people who have a loose connection with reality I would not advise this - not unless you tape the conversation.
Sales Corner?
Some people though just can't be reasoned with or bargained and this is the crux of the matter . They are instigating this poor guy into making a dumb move. I think all the advice regarding playing it by the book is sound advice . They will come unstuck
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Good luck OP.
They sound like nightmare neighbors and I doubt you're their first victim. Don't get drawn into a war, although it sounds like you're far too sensible for that! I hope it is sorted swiftly and amicably
Having been on the other side of the fence and having to make constant complaints about the twattish behaviour of neighbours - even if you were doing those things, they can complain all they like. Nothing will ever happen.
Through the letterbox.
http://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pe...ca-gregaria%29
I think the concern could be what these neighbours may do themselves rather through any official channels!
Do not knock on their door, if you do they can then say that you threatened them and if asked if you ever went to see them you would have to say yes.
Download a db meter for your cell-phone and use that for a (v) rough idea of the volume of your music. It will not be that accurate but it will at least give you an idea of the levels.
Raise a complaint about them to their landlord, they are the new neighbours not you so your complaints about them moving in and making trouble should carry more weight. If the landlord decides that they are not worth the hassle of having to deal with the upset neighbours then they can terminate or not renew the lease.
Give up smoking - if you do smoke, a) it's one less complaint, b) you'll live longer c) you'll have more money in your pocket
Good luck, our downstairs neighbour made multiple complaints about us until one of them turned out to be for a night we were away, more investigation after that showed that the noise they were complaining about came from across the road and not our place.......
OP hasn't posted in a while. I hope he hasn't used some of the poorer advice offered on this thread and they have kept him locked in the cupboard. It's now our job to avenge him
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