Reply With QuoteI learn from every thread on this forum (easy when I started out knowing so little).
For instance I now know that the Rolex AD in Abuja is in the Hilton on Aguiyi Ironsi Street, should anyone ever offer me a warranty card issued there.
Agreed.Originally Posted by markrlondon
Anyway - now that's sorted can we drop this now - it's already been discussed numerous times on TZ - perhaps we need a new 'sticky' Eddie?
(As far as warranties go - most are International - I know Rolex , Omega , Breitling are as are - and the are against the watch not the purchaser)
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 20th July 2017 at 09:12.
I learn from every thread on this forum (easy when I started out knowing so little).
For instance I now know that the Rolex AD in Abuja is in the Hilton on Aguiyi Ironsi Street, should anyone ever offer me a warranty card issued there.
This one?
Precisely.This one?
The Abuja Hilton also has (or perhaps had) the best bakery in town. Very nice croissants, I seem to remember.This one?
So you can buy a sub to wear and one to eat?
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Or perhaps something with a sandwich dial.So you can buy a sub to wear and one to eat?
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@very.funny
M
Even though its a Rolex AD in Nigeria, i can imagine a good number of people not wanting a watch from there with those stamped papers.
Who? Enoch Powell? Tommy Robinson? Or some other narrow minded person?
RIAC
And a waffle strap?
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Obviously it's up to the buyer what they are looking for. Personally I think it looks quite nice, if a bit small. I wonder if they leave the stickers on?
http://www.pololuxury.com/our-stores/
Now that the handbag battle seems to have subsided, we can get back to the point
General consensus seems to be that it *shouldn't* make a difference where the watch came from, and I would subscribe to that logical viewpoint.
However, feel free to take part in this entirely scientific experiment:
There are two watches on the counter in front of you at the local Watchfinder.
The first is a ceramic Daytona, white dial, unworn, full set, stickers intact, supplied last month from a UK AD. Price £14,995.
The second is a ceramic Daytona, white dial, unworn, full set, stickers intact, supplied last month from a Greek AD. Price £14,995.
You are definitely buying one of the two. Which one do you walk out with?
I've made both of my more expensive purchases of brand new watches abroad from an AD, for much lower than the UK RRP(a Ball in Malaysia and a Glashutte Original in the UAE). I don't have any plans to sell either but if I did even with fluctuations in the exchange rate both have increased in value.
I would have no problem with buying a pre-owned watch that was originally purchased abroad.
Either, they're both the same...Now that the handbag battle seems to have subsided, we can get back to the point
General consensus seems to be that it *shouldn't* make a difference where the watch came from, and I would subscribe to that logical viewpoint.
However, feel free to take part in this entirely scientific experiment:
There are two watches on the counter in front of you at the local Watchfinder.
The first is a ceramic Daytona, white dial, unworn, full set, stickers intact, supplied last month from a UK AD. Price £14,995.
The second is a ceramic Daytona, white dial, unworn, full set, stickers intact, supplied last month from a Greek AD. Price £14,995.
You are definitely buying one of the two. Which one do you walk out with?
Actually neither, they're both overpriced.
While you're browsing and thinking about your possible purchase, another customer comes in and straightaway buys one of the two....the UK one.Now that the handbag battle seems to have subsided, we can get back to the point
General consensus seems to be that it *shouldn't* make a difference where the watch came from, and I would subscribe to that logical viewpoint.
However, feel free to take part in this entirely scientific experiment:
There are two watches on the counter in front of you at the local Watchfinder.
The first is a ceramic Daytona, white dial, unworn, full set, stickers intact, supplied last month from a UK AD. Price £14,995.
The second is a ceramic Daytona, white dial, unworn, full set, stickers intact, supplied last month from a Greek AD. Price £14,995.
You are definitely buying one of the two. Which one do you walk out with?
You decide you're definitely going to take the Greek one. How much of a discount are you expecting to get?
Hand on heart cheese, whichever one gets grabbed. Wouldn't care as they're both identical.
If the Greek one was in situ and gave me the chance of a week in Santorini though.. ;)
Of course there are people like this so the foreign watch will be less saleable.
Thus makes sense for everyone to choose the UK watch.
I must admit to being surprised by that, I would certainly take the UK one. Irrational possibly, racist hopefully not, but there you go.
That makes it more interesting, of course - if there were a price differential, how much would it have to be to make me take the non-UK one?
So true stories of people having to pay vat to customs a few years on from
Importing watches themselves and avoiding the vat are untrue then ?
It's surely recorded by serial number as the manufacturer would know which agent sold the watch originally and from which country and if that watch was exported they would have invoices to show it was sold ex vat .
So if the imported vat was not paid as the importer would have records to prove otherwise then still Customs wouldn't be any the wiser ?! I think you are a little deluded.
😂😂 I don't think Mark is deluded, far from it, he's spot on. Do you know how customs works at the border? They certainly don't have the staff to check everyone's wrist, that's pretty obvious!
Last edited by dougair; 20th July 2017 at 17:19.
People who want a "UK watch" are racists. All swiss made watches are equal
;)
(a) That is a different scenario to the one under discussion. We are discussing the issue of buying and owning watches that have already been imported by someone else, not watches still owned by the person who smuggled them in.
(b) Can you provide references to any such true stories? I'd be interested to read them.
(c) I can in fact provide a reference to a similar (but not quite identical) true story and I mentioned it earlier in this thread. To be clear, I mentioned it because the smuggler in question was in fact selling watches on (i.e. he wasn't just keeping them for himself); he was not as far as I know wearing them through customs. I mentioned it in #149. To re-cap, Darren Reay (i.e. Wight's Watches) was falsifying paperwork so as to under-declare VAT on watches on import. When HMRC caught up with him, they seized his remaining stock and took him to court, but they did not pursue anyone who had previously bought watches from him.
In short, the smuggler is indeed on the hook for smuggling (or misdeclaring value on paperwork), including years down the line, but the individual watches he has previously sold on are not tainted. Thus VAT is not a concern for second hand watches. VAT really is an irrelevance in this context. Individual watches are simply not generally traceable in this context once sold on by the original importer.
What has the manufacturer got to do with it? Once a watch is sold by an AD then neither the AD nor the manufacturer have any clue what happens to it. The invoice issued by the AD to the retail purchaser will presumably show what local sales taxes or VAT were charged on it in the jurisdiction of the vendor but that tells us nothing about what happens when the watch enters the UK or if and when it's sold on afterwards.
No, really I'm not deluded at all. You seem to be presuming that records are made or are available when they are not in general. There are no general records of serial numbers showing what watches have had VAT paid on them any at particular location.
I can't rule out that customs authorities might make records of serial numbers of watches that people declare to them as they go through customs (where the watches actually have serial numbers, that is) but, even if so, that would only be a small proportion of watches that permanently cross borders. Most imported watches will be couriered or posted and there could not be and will not be any records at all of the serial numbers or 'identities' of such watches, except maybe the very, very, very few indeed that are opened by customs.
Last edited by markrlondon; 20th July 2017 at 22:06.
Round in circles ...
I'm fecking laughing at anyone mental enough to think that HMRC record serial numbers at border points!! Talk about deluded...
All you get is a credit card receipt with no link to the watch.
You cannot prove that a self imported watch has had VAT paid.
I spent 5 1/2 years weekly traveling in/out of the EU wearing Omega, Rolex, Tudor and Audemars Piguet. Care to ask how many times my watch was even glanced at by Customs?
Or that Hmrc would even care 😂😂
Exactly! :)
They have bigger fish to fry. I have also travelled in and out of EU many times by air and car with whatever my current watch was at the time and no one cared. Only watch enthusiasts and potential muggers scan others' wrists. Normal people don't pay any attention.
No one has suggested this !
You can prove if a watch has had Vat paid by the records of the selling retailer if it was new , its not difficult .
Pretty much nonsense. I have bought many watches in Japan using an agent who then forwards it on to me.
Pray tell, if I came to sell it, how anyone can subsequently tell whether taxes were paid when it entered the UK? What checks could an individual, or indeed the authorities, do that would show this?
Mitch
I think the argument on the 'other side' (and certainly the OP's question) is less about proving VAT/duty payment and more about the appeal of non UK/EU sourced watches to some UK buyers.
If you purchased the watch from new or were the importer it would be up to you to prove the duty was paid otherwise you would have a bill to pay . But dont ask here , speak to Customs & Excise, they are the ones with the powers . Of course we all realise the circumstances that lead to a watch being scrutinised for not haveing import duty paid are minimal but it can happen .Seems to be an air of complacency on here which is worrying but you take your chances I suppose .
Doesn't alter your point but C&E haven't existed since 2005.
When I have paid duty (more properly VAT) on a watch purchased abroad a proper receipt has never been issued so proving anything would be impossible.
I don't need to speak to the Revenue and Customs and I don't need to prove that any item, of whatever nature, I own has had the correct taxes paid. There is a presumption of innocence in this country and if the authorities want to accuse you of avoiding taxes on an item and charge you they need to prove it.
Can you prove that the nice China/Japan made TV, phone, Hifi, computer, tablet etc etc indeed every thing you own that was made outside the EU, has had the correct taxes paid? If the authorities came to you and said prove it or you owe the money, would you pay?
Don't think so!
Now, if the authorities came to you having checked and obtained the evidence that no taxes had been paid, that would be different.
Exactly where are they going to check to get such evidence, please be specific.
Mitch
Seriously man, you're on a loser here.
Many of us have exported and imported watches and know the score.
I've sold watches in the UK that I've exported, claimed UK VAT back on and then sold in the UK again without paying UK VAT. And I've done it completely legally! I would never feck around with HMRC over these issues...
However, there is no record, check or otherwise unless you are behaving illegally and are investigated.
No, you cannot in general.
First of all, the records of the "selling retailer" (which one?) are not generally available to anyone else (including customs authorities in general).
Secondly, the records may or may not record the identity details of a particular watch.
Thirdly, such records at best indicate what sales tax or VAT was charged at the time of the original sale. This may well have nothing whatsoever to do with the status of a watch further down the road.
In short, records of a selling retailer prove nothing whatsoever about whether or not the correct taxes were or were not applied at some later date when the watch crossed a border or when it was sold on later, possibly in some other country.
Yes. As I pointed to you out above, this is wholly irrelevant to the issues at hand here.
There is no air of complacency here. It's just that, in the circumstances under discussion here, there is zero risk in connection with VAT. It is entirely an irrelevance. As I poiunted out in #174 you are conflating separate issues in separate sets of circumstances.
Yes, the importer of a watch is on the hook forever for any underpaid import VAT. No one has said otherwise. But that is utterly irrelevant to the circumstances that are of concern here, where we are talking about a watch purchased by the present owner in the UK.
The key point was and is that a watch in and of itself is not tainted by being imported (even if the correct import taxes were not paid on it). It is the possibly dishonest importer who is responsible, not the watch. Later buyers of the watch in the UK need have no concerns. This is not complacency; it is simply how it is in practice.
Last edited by markrlondon; 21st July 2017 at 21:51.
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