Reply With QuoteI'm not convinced it is moisture.
I think it is more likely to be have been faulty plating during manufacture which is only becoming apparent now.
I'm going to go with moisture as I hope it's not a manufacturing/design defect.
I'm not convinced it is moisture.
I think it is more likely to be have been faulty plating during manufacture which is only becoming apparent now.
Cheers,
Neil.
Oh, was I correct then, they are plated?
mike
Yep, nearly lost your house there, Tony!Originally Posted by learningtofly
Simon
It looks like pitting to me.
Will be interesting to find out.
That's not possible. It's a brand that's worshipped by TZ-UK, therefore they could not have committed a fault.
It's ok. I don't like London anyway
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
As I understand it, rhodium plating is very resistant to corrosion. In which case, mild water vapour could not affect it. So water vapour seems not an option.
I am increasingly suspecting faulty plating.
Here's a link to a review of a few of these manual wind GSs together:
http://www.watchprosite.com/page-wf....73/pi-6371078/
The review does a partial tear down of one of the watches to look at the movement, dial and construction.
The crystal and bezel lift off together, as one piece, to reveal the dial.
The bezel is held in place with four screws from inside the case and has a rubber gasket. By comparison, the case back is held on with six screws, thus ensuring more even pressure around the gasket.
I'm not going to say it's definitely one thing or the other, but it's worth seeing how these are constructed when deciding upon what might be the cause or have contributed to the problem.
PS I can only assume that the 10 ATM models have a slightly different construction.
Last edited by AKM; 17th July 2017 at 18:50.
Could the dehumidifier in the safe have dried out the seals?
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White gold too. Much white gold jewellery is rhodium plated as the white gold formulations traditionally used are a greyish colour, not the bright/shiny colour that we expect from white gold.
Rolex's white gold doesn't need plating to give the bright and shiny finish.
** Update **
What seffrican and others said.
Last edited by markrlondon; 18th July 2017 at 04:04.
No, not in my experience.
mike
Agreed, dehumidifiers only remove water, not organic molecules/silicones ('oils') which if lost might contribute to seals drying out.
Modern Rolex white gold doesn't, but there was a time in the past they did use a dull white gold alloy that needed plating
edit: Googling found this photo by Jocke:
Last edited by Der Amf; 18th July 2017 at 07:52.
Well, bit annoyed. Just got a reply from Maidenhead , who say the corrosion on the markers means the dial will need to be replaced....at a cost of £440 plus £350 for a service. This on a four year old watch. The assistant...not the actual technician...Said water must have got into the watch. But it had been stored in a safe, with a humidifier, for the last two years. And I had only had it a couple of weeks since it came out of the safe.
They offered no explanation about how rhodium plated markers could corrode like that in contact with water vapour. If there ever was water vapour......
I have asked for the issue to be referred to Japan. But you can see how this is likely to go ..... not at all happy. I don't think those markers should have corroded like that .
Nb. This is a dress watch with just 3atm, but sitting in a safe is hardly likely to stress that.
Last edited by paskinner; 25th July 2017 at 17:16.
Wow, just shy of £800, I'd be more than a "bit annoyed".
Good luck with getting them to try to sort it.
Was anything amiss inside the watch itself with supposed water ingress?
You never know, once you contact Japan, they might know of a pre existing plating problem with a certain batch of dials and will swap for free!
cant hurt to let them know anyway, and that you are dissapointed.
mike
Yes, I will do that. As you say, can't hurt. I doubt this has anything to do with water vapour. But, in the end, what choice do I have? Anyway, I have told them to go ahead, as it will take three months .
Next step is to find the head of servicing .......finding the right guy is the key.
If you haven't already, I'd get them to confirm for damn sure it needs a service, which I'd guess it doesn't. Some service centre staff have a habit of just glancing at a watch, saying "that looks like water damage" and then telling you it needs a service even if they haven't examined the movement. I've heard of that exact scenario happening at Seiko UK.
Problem with the bezel seal perhaps
Picture courtesy of PuristPro full review showing construction is here:
http://www.watchprosite.com/page-wf....73/pi-6371078/
Nightmare cost to remedy with new dial and service for a relatively new watch.
Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk
Last edited by AKM; 25th July 2017 at 18:53.
Not impressive on any unabused 4 year old watch, but on a higher end piece it's very disappointing.
Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
Could be; very difficult to know. I am going to ask for the watch to be returned to the factory in Japan for a full examination. The biggest problem for me is the corrosion on the rhodium plating...how could that occur on such an expensive watch ? Rhodium is supposed to be highly resistant to normal corrosion.Problem with the bezel seal perhaps
Picture courtesy of PuristPro full review showing construction is here:
http://www.watchprosite.com/page-wf....73/pi-6371078/
Nightmare cost to remedy with new dial and service for a relatively new watch.
Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk
stainless can develop a film when damp is present check out the exhaust tail tips on cars and eventually it does stain permanently
I would challenge this opinion and ask how Rhodium, which is inert to corrosion, has managed to corrode! Can they explain the chemical reaction that has taken place? Rhodium does not oxidise.
I can see condensation staining the metal but it would just wipe off.
Bronze oxidises but that would be a failure of the manufacturing process where the batons were not fully coated in Rhodium and that would be down to Seiko. The plating cannot have worn off, no abrasion.
Mitch
[QUOTE=Mitch;4432739]I would challenge this opinion and ask how Rhodium, which is inert to corrosion, has managed to corrode! Can they explain the chemical reaction that has taken place? Rhodium does not oxidise.
I can see condensation staining the metal but it would just wipe off.
Bronze oxidises but that would be a failure of the manufacturing process where the batons were not fully coated in Rhodium and that would be down to Seiko. The plating cannot have worn off, no abrasion. Quote...
Yes, that is how I see it. Rhodium is from the platinum group of metals and would not oxidise. There can be no abrasion of the plating, so the only realistic explanation is poor quality plating, where the brass is breaking through. However, getting this through to Grand Seiko may not be easy, when their first response is to blame the owner.
I would ask for it back and see if a independent can clean the markers if it is just surface staining, Seiko would have no interest in trying to do this and take the easy option of replacing the dial.
Cheers..
Jase
My first instinct was to send the watch to Brendan Hoey, who is pretty good with this stuff. But if there is a manufacturing fault, Grand Seiko should accept responsibility.
However, sending it to Brendan remains an option. But if there is corrosion, his choices would be limited.
It could be more than one problem / combination of factors that have led to the issue e.g. bezel seal, plating quality, moisture from the production process / pressure testing or subsequent ingress.
Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk
Definitely horological seppuku.
It's possible that some trace contamination has got onto the batons when the watch, possibly from condensation or from being touched. If the markers are rhodium plated the metal won' t have been affected and the contamination will wipe off easily.
Paul
And people justify Grand Seikos by extolling the virtues of the "fit and finish".
Should have got a Rolex
Any brand can have the occasional problem.....and that includes Rolex. I've had my share. What I am interested in now, is how Grand Seiko respond. Rolex are excellent at dealing with issues. Grand Seiko? We will see.And people justify Grand Seikos by extolling the virtues of the "fit and finish".
Should have got a Rolex
The rhodium hasn't corroded; the BRASS has corroded underneath it.
Plated brass always corrodes -- eventually. The only surprising thing with this watch is that it is so soon.
Well, despite being something of a Seiko fanboy, I am surprised that they use plated brass on this level of watch. It's always going to be doomed, sooner or later. It is not for nothing that Rolex use white gold markers.
Life's too short for hassle. So I have sold the watch nice and cheap. I think the buyer will be pleased and I can concentrate on the new kitchen. If you think watches are overpriced, what they charge for chipboard kitchen cupboard makes the eyes water.
Lost £1100 in this deal, but told my partner I made a profit. She pretends to believe....easy come, easy go.
I thought it was still with Seiko UK in order for it to be sent to Seiko Japan?
Will this make you stick with ADs for all your future purchases ?
Maybe they bought it?
;-)
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Thats pretty carp on a watch that expensive. One off the list I reckon.
Maybe a bit rash to write off a whole brand based on a sample size of one. In my personal experience I would have written off Rolex, Omega, Breitling.
Meant the GS actually, I do have a few Seikos. Your choice on what you buy.
Ah ok. I don't think I would have bought that particular GS, now I know it's history.
Frankly, I think you may have thrown the baby out with the bathwater on this one!
OK, the watch had a small cosmetic issue owing to some marking/residue on the markers, but to me it would've made far more sense to have this investigated by a repairer. It may have been v. simple to rectify by simply wiping the batons clean. Provided this revealed no pitting or corrosion the watch would've looked absolutely fine and you'd now be enjoying it.
Maybe it's just me that takes a more hard-nosed pragmatic approach, maybe I'm far less emotive about watches, but I always look for a solution to minor problems. I think it quite likely this could've been resolved and you could've continued to enjoy the watch; after all, that's why you bought it. Now you've taken a £1100 loss and you don't own a GS......sorry but I can't see the logic in this. It would've made more sense to go down the service/new dial route........but my guess is that it could've been resolved a lot cheaper.
Paul
It arrives back with me tomorrow. I think the new owner will be pleased. I must give an honourable mention to TZ member 'Plake' who, without being asked, generously refunded part of the price. Given that neither of us knew about the issue at the time of sale, I think that was a noble thing to do, for which I thank him. Real spirit of the forum.
I still hold Grand Seiko in high regard. All manufacturers, even the best, get the occasional problem.
Someone asked would I now buy only from ADs. No, although I always like a good AD. But I would, and will, buy from SC again.
You are probably right. But we are in the middle of a house renovation and I just wanted to get this out of the way. I think the buyer got a real bargain. But that's ok. At other times I would have gone down the route you suggest.
It's wasabi.
Fas est ab hoste doceri
I hope the new buyer follows up and gets the watch sorted. I would think a few of us here would like to know what happened.
Its a great watch having seen it in person - hopefully another will soon find its way to your wrist Peter!
You were the 'eagle eyes' who first spotted the problem. At some point I will get another manual wind GS. Hopefully not too soon.
Enjoy the mighty spring drive. What a watch.
Yes, well done to Plake for such an honourable act.
Absolutely. I'd like to know more and ideally see the markers in much greater detail.
According #66, Seiko UK did say that the markers were corroded and they should know. Nevertheless, I'd still like to see closeups.
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