Reply With QuoteCould you do a photo that's in focus, then we can see the grunge you speak of?
PS any chance of water ingress?
Lovely watch , accurate to two seconds a day. Runs beautifully. 2013. But what is that grunge on some of the markers? It is going for a service, so can be cleaned, but those markers are highly polished stainless steel.
Baffled. Any ideas?
The photos exaggerate. In normal conditions you have to look quite hard to spot anything. But it is there, none on the dial, none on the hands, just some of the markers.
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Last edited by paskinner; 16th July 2017 at 17:31.
Could you do a photo that's in focus, then we can see the grunge you speak of?
PS any chance of water ingress?
How about these.
Should be visible on the '11' and '8',markers.
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Last edited by paskinner; 16th July 2017 at 17:37.
Well, from your (poor) photos, it looks like corrosion - the 11 o'clock marker of the last photo shows it best.
I have never seen this on such a modern watch, nor such a high end watch.
I can only imagine it's moisture ingress?
But does stainless steel corrode like that? Surely not. And there's no sign of corrosion on the hands or movement. Neither is there the slightest sign of water vapour.Perhaps I will just have to see what the techies say. I didn't own this from new.
I will get it sorted and report back.
Definitely looks like corrosion, how sure are you that the indices are ss and not chromed brass?
I am not.Originally Posted by seadog1408
If it's only on two markers, it could be a chemical (coolant from the machining process for example or a careless assemblers finger oils) that wasn't cleaned off properly on these two indices only. Over time this could have reacted with the stainless steel on those indices affected.
I'd have thought that moisture ingress would affect all similarly.
Shudder to think what the responses might have been from the usual if this were a Rolex.
At this price point?
QC going down the drain
How gullible?
Machine made wonders
This is why I will not buy Rolex
Camp at the ADs till he sorts it out
On a serious note, it does look like corrosion and if it is under warranty, should be sorted without a problem. Tough luck.
Are you sure , there has been no water ingress while in your possession?
i'll take you up on that tone
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Wow! I got my GS for its perfection and purity. I'd be pretty upset about this. Let us know what you find out.
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It has been safe on my wrist or in a leather storage box. I only bought it, privately. Two months ago, and in normal light saw nothing...it isn't easily seen. I will have to pay to sort-it. These things happen,as long as it can be fixed, I am not too worried. But it is odd, the watch runs like a dream. Let's see what Grand Seiko have to say. I have always found them a class act.
Last edited by paskinner; 16th July 2017 at 18:14.
I too am shocked but think it's probably some careless handling by the assemblers or poss a watch repair ?
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I have owned quite a few GS models and they have all been brilliant. I don't know what has happened here, because it is the first GS I did not buy new. But I doubt that it reflects on the general quality of Grand Seiko. Dangerous to extrapolate from a single sample , who's history is unclear to me.
As I said, as long as it is fixable, that's just life.
But it does puzzle me.
At this price point???
QC is going down the drain.
How gullible!
Machine made wonders??
This is why l won't buy Grand Seiko.
Camp at the ADs until he sorts it out!
Should have bought a Rolex
Pretty sure on the grand Seiko vid I watched from here earlier said about them being plated so you may be in luck.
They are pretty dire pictures though so it's hard to see but it certainly looks like moisture has attacked.
Well, all a mystery. There should be no moisture because it is resistant to 3 ATM, and is only four years old. What;s more, it was kept in a safe with a humidifier for the last two years.
No point in guessing any further. I will report back when the watch has been inspected.
That might be your problem, install a dehumidifier to see if it stops the problem ;-)
Cheers..
Jase
The geezers on wus, one of whom is a GS dealer all seem to say they are rhodium plated.
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Should have bought a Rolex instead.
Poor quality Seiko.
It may be marks left after condensation has formed within the watch after a change in temperature. You can see this with nearly all watches if you try the 'ice cube' test on the crystal. Normally when the condensation clears it leaves no marks but very rarely it does.
I received a watch from Japan which had these marks on one of the SS batons and on the lower end of the minute hand. They cleaned off with no trouble.
Mitch
Plated brass according to this http://www.watchprosite.com/page-wf....73/pi-8504918/
it's 'Tropical Patina'. If it were on a Rolex it would make it more valuable......
Oh dear.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I'm guessing this couldn't possibly have been bought from an AD ?
Some useful stuff, I think. Looks as if it is plated brass, from the video. A dodgy bit of plating? And the marks may not be corrosion anyway.. Maidenhead will tell me.
I didn't buy from an AD, but the guy I bought it from is deeply honourable. For those who see an opportunity to score points....enjoy yourselves.
The point was to see if anyone had any ideas; that's all. And people have been helpful.
Last edited by paskinner; 16th July 2017 at 20:37.
The first Rolex I bought (in 1980) was an Air King and needed the corroded hands replaced at its first service five years later. No obvious history of water ingress...
This was bought from me actually, it has been in my safe complete with dehumidifying boxes for the approx couple of years since I acquired it from a forum star. I wasn't aware of these marks when I sold it (I'm pretty obsessive about accurate descriptions) but as it looked like new to my eyes I didn't go over it with a loupe. I'm very concerned and disappointed to see them. Peter and I have been in recent communication and I'm hoping to be able to help put this right, if he'll let me!
That and a spidery dial, and a dab of dog s***t on the date bubble.
Last edited by Umbongo; 16th July 2017 at 20:51.
It certainly looks fine in your sales listing, no evidence of anything untoward on the batons to my eyes.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Don't know Ralphy, with the retrospectoscope (always an unforgiving tool) I don't think one can rule that out.
Anyway, lets see what Seiko have to say and whatever it takes for Peter to be happy, I'd like to do it.
I also see a small circular mark at 12, but that looks like it's on the outside ?
Very, very interesting. I am surprised, to say the least, that the index markers are plated brass. As with learningtofly, I'd have expected them to be stainless steel or possibly white gold for corrosion resistance.
Isn't rhodium plating usually done on most white gold formulations to make it bright and shiny? Can it be done onto brass?
Interestingly, if you enlarge that picture I think you can see the 'stuff' on some of the markers. But with normal eyesight, in normal light, it isn't at all clear. Which is why there is no 'fault' in any of this. Everyone acted in good faith, I have no complaints, none whatsoever, and i would buy it again, knowing about this.It certainly looks fine in your sales listing, no evidence of anything untoward on the batons to my eyes.
R
It will get cleared up. And I love the watch, which Plake treated with great care. I will get this fixed and continue to enjoy the watch.
I think it unlikely that the rhodium will corrode unless some fairly nasty contamination has somehow happened.
What might possibly have happened is that the rhodium has been put down either too thin or in a patchy or porous form and the components of the underlying brass (copper and/or zinc) are migrating through and oxidising.
The lack of an interlayer between the brass and rhodium might also be an issue. I used to do a lot of work on gold-plated copper or brass connectors for various industries and if so-called strike or barrier layers were not deposited under the gold oxidation would commonly occur leading to increased, sometimes catastrophic, contact resistances.
The resultant oxidation may be the cause of the observed discolouration.
Given the quality of the images I would not be sure of anything though. We use techniques such as electron microscopy and X-ray photoelectron spectroscopy to study what is happening on the nanometre scale to really work out what is going on when the aforementioned connectors fail.
Just a thought.
Given my crap photos, I tried again. You can see better, the stuff on the marker almost looks like little specks of dirt.
Particularly obvious on the '9' marker. The rest of the dial, hands and rehaut are all perfect.it is just some of the markers. The rest, including the case and movement, look wonderful. Hopefully, I will get an explanation from Seiko later in the week. It might just clean off.
Actually, I haven't got a clue. Maybe gc52 cracked it.
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Last edited by paskinner; 16th July 2017 at 23:13.
Yeah, my signet ring is 18ct white gold. No plating.
It's my own design and diamond I got from Hatton Garden
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Gone off by rmsd to Maidenhead . We will see what they say.
Peter - just a thought - I think this one went to Maidenhead for a quick regulation under warranty when I first got it - this would have been the only time that the dial might have been at risk of being handled outside of the GS manufacture.
Not 100% sure it was this one but they might have a record of it if so.
Thanks. It's all a mystery. I can see no general signs of water vapour and I can't understand why just the markers would be damaged. But we will see, the only thing I wonder about is whether the manufacturer will ever tell us. When Rolex get a manufacturing fault, they don't admit it, just fix it and return the watch. Seiko may be the same.
The original alloys used to make white gold were not really all that white, so it was often plated with Rhodium to produce a purer white.
I believe it's less common now, as the latest white gold alloys have a brighter tone.
Personally I wouldn't touch the stuff, the toxicity of anything that might end up not properly bound into the alloy is appallingly high.
As an aside, white gold that has not been Rhodium plated is a lovely colour!
Water or moisture ingress is still a possibility rather than it necessarily being manufacturing fault.
These have a slightly more interesting case construction where the bezel is held on with screws that are fitted from inside the case. This creates more possible points of ingress and is only really suitable for dress watches.
PS one of the manufacturing videos on YouTube shows the markers and hands being rhodium plated.
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Last edited by AKM; 17th July 2017 at 13:35.
To put it another way: white gold alloys that don't need rhodium plating are a lovely colour - the white gold alloys that used to get rhodium plated could be funny colours, which would be revealed when the plating wore through.
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