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Thread: The death of Doctor Who??

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by odyseus10 View Post
    I have no doubt Jodie Whittaker is a fine actress, but for me this isn't the issue and it's ridiculous to accuse people with this view as being a misogynist - I certainly DO NOT hate women.
    Neither do I, imagine that.


    There's a word that's sometimes used to describe persons suffering from a particular, indiscriminate, unthinking brand of liberalism; "libtard" of course. I'm not fond of it myself as I find it a touch crude and inelegant, but it does describe these people quite concisely, these irrational, shallow, juvenile people who think in black and white, look for racism and sexism wherever they can invent it and value virtue-signalling above all else. I must say the BBC's politically correct Doctor Who initiative has brought the libtards out of the woodwork like no other issue I can remember.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Are only considering that the whole point is that the character is regenerating and as such allow it to change to a different actor by age, skin colour or indeed sex, which wouldn't be an option in any of the analogies attempted here to oppose the change.
    Of course it could be an option. Spock isn't human, for example. He could grow a few more limbs and turn into an arachnid, male or female if the producers of Star Trek had been up for it. But I can't think of an established sci-fi character, of any species, that changes gender. Got anything?

  3. #153
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    The death of Doctor Who??

    There is no need. A Spock growing more limbs would hardly benefit the plot and seriously complicate production, not to mention costs, especially as Spock isn't the only Vulcan about. But Dr Who is the only character that regenerates, thus offer the option of a change. The fact that they only use it now shows how ingrained the stereotype was, when a female doctor opens up more possibilities. And if indeed it doesn't work all that will be required is another regeneration.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  4. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by monogroover View Post
    Neither do I, imagine that.


    There's a word that's sometimes used to describe persons suffering from a particular, indiscriminate, unthinking brand of liberalism; "libtard" of course. I'm not fond of it myself as I find it a touch crude and inelegant, but it does describe these people quite concisely, these irrational, shallow, juvenile people who think in black and white, look for racism and sexism wherever they can invent it and value virtue-signalling above all else. I must say the BBC's politically correct Doctor Who initiative has brought the libtards out of the woodwork like no other issue I can remember.
    Another right-wing snowflake, unable to cope with the simple concept that some people can see men and women as equals, while having the lack of self-awareness to call people 'juvenile' while employing the term 'libtards'. Utterly laughable 😂

  5. #155
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogroover View Post
    Of course it could be an option. Spock isn't human, for example. He could grow a few more limbs and turn into an arachnid, male or female if the producers of Star Trek had been up for it. But I can't think of an established sci-fi character, of any species, that changes gender. Got anything?
    And as a side note, the authors did not hesitate to have female vulcans in different Star Trek franchises (T'Pol and Saavik, the first being in the same role as Spock).
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  6. #156
    As a side note, Sydney Newman suggested that the Doctor metamorphose into a woman in 1986.

  7. #157
    Master Alansmithee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogroover View Post
    Of course it could be an option. Spock isn't human, for example. He could grow a few more limbs and turn into an arachnid, male or female if the producers of Star Trek had been up for it. But I can't think of an established sci-fi character, of any species, that changes gender. Got anything?
    Starbuck from BSG.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Lee View Post
    I think it’s an excellent move. Over the last few years there have been several Time Lords, including the Master, who have had female regenerations. There is no reason why The Doctor shouldn’t be female.
    The clue is in the name Time LORD, not Time person.

  9. #159
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve27752 View Post
    The clue is in the name Time LORD, not Time person.
    The same clue was in the name the Master. Strange nobody reacted then
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    The same clue was in the name the Master. Strange nobody reacted then
    Oh, they did. Not with anywhere near the same sense of sobbing manchild entitlement as the last few days, but there were definitely people that had issues with that change.

  11. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve27752 View Post
    The clue is in the name Time LORD, not Time person.
    There have been female Time Lords. Your argument is incorrect.
    http://doctorwho.answers.wikia.com/w...ale_Time_Lords

  12. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by rsykes2000 View Post
    Oh, they did. Not with anywhere near the same sense of sobbing manchild entitlement as the last few days, but there were definitely people that had issues with that change.
    And there you go again, you just can't help yourself insulting people, who have a perfect right to express their opinion.

  13. #163
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by odyseus10 View Post
    And there you go again, you just can't help yourself insulting people, who have a perfect right to express their opinion.
    Yet you're here, whining about him expressing his opinion, just like you've whined when you threw your first hissy fit in the OP and was called on it.

    Your opinion is yours, and if you want to express it publicly you must also expect to be called on it and on the way you expressed it by people who don't share your views.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  14. #164
    The sub-text (elephant in the room/dead moose on the table) is the general perceived tendency of the BBC in particular and the media as a whole to exaggerate whatever is politically correct. Whether that's a black James Bond or (amusingly) Rhett Butler, indian actor playing the lead in Roots or a lesbian as the lead in the remake of Rocky....the BBC seem to pander to whatever is 'trendy' at the time and thereby diminish their credibility as a programme maker.

    That's not to say they actually do - I seldom watch terrestial TV, it's an image they seem to project, whether deliberately or not I don't know (or particularly care)
    Last edited by afcneal; 19th July 2017 at 09:58.

  15. #165
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    I never thought that Dr Who's sex was a factor in any of the stories, it isn't like he ever used his penis to escape from a prison or to kill a Dalek. I therefore can see absolutely no reason why the character should not be played by a woman.

  16. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Yet you're here, whining about him expressing his opinion, just like you've whined when you threw your first hissy fit in the OP and was called on it.

    Your opinion is yours, and if you want to express it publicly you must also expect to be called on it and on the way you expressed it by people who don't share your views.
    I'm whining about the personal attacks...if you have a problem with my and other peoples views, why not try actually debating it with a valid argument, instead of just insulting the people?

  17. #167
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by odyseus10 View Post
    I'm whining about the personal attacks...if you have a problem with my and other peoples views, why not try actually debating it with a valid argument, instead of just insulting the people?
    I haven't used any invective yet, although I am happy to call you a snowflake now.
    If you look at the posts I made before calling you out for whining you may notice that they participated in the debate by offering constructive arguments and validating/refuting comparisons to justify my opinion. whereas your posts were mainly about spitting your dummy out.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  18. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    I haven't used any invective yet, although I am happy to call you a snowflake now.
    If you look at the posts I made before calling you out for whining you may notice that they participated in the debate by offering constructive arguments and validating/refuting comparisons to justify my opinion. whereas your posts were mainly about spitting your dummy out.
    Of course you are so right, how stupid of me not to notice - you are real credit to the forum.

  19. #169
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by odyseus10 View Post
    Of course you are so right, how stupid of me not to notice - you are real credit to the forum.
    It's not about being right or wrong. It's about expressing your opinion and what it is based upon. Yours seems to be based on a highly emotional response.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  20. #170
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    I can't understand this thread...

    If Dr Who dies, he/she'll regenerate anyway!

    M.

  21. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    It's not about being right or wrong. It's about expressing your opinion and what it is based upon. Yours seems to be based on a highly emotional response.
    Still doesn't excuse you insulting people does it ?

  22. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by afcneal View Post
    The sub-text (elephant in the room/dead moose on the table) is the general perceived tendency of the BBC in particular and the media as a whole to exaggerate whatever is politically correct. Whether that's a black James Bond or (amusingly) Rhett Butler, indian actor playing the lead in Roots or a lesbian as the lead in the remake of Rocky....the BBC seem to pander to whatever is 'trendy' at the time and thereby diminish their credibility as a programme maker.

    That's not to say they actually do - I seldom watch terrestial TV, it's an image they seem to project, whether deliberately or not I don't know (or particularly care)
    I think that there can definitely be a small element of that in some of their programmes*, but the majority just plod on as normal with the 'expected' gender / race stereotypes as per usual. However when something is seen to be verging on being 'politically correct', the tabloid press who hate the BBC jump on it - obviously The Sun has a bias due to the owner and his ownership of Sky, and the daily mail, well, it's just the typical Little England hatred of anything that doesn't fit their 1950's cultural norms :)

    *mainly due to the actual remit of the BBC and their requirement to be unbiased (and before you right-wingers have a fit about Trotsky bias at the BBC, please bear in mind that I read a lot of media from both sides of the political spectrum and the *same programmes* are regularly complained about by lefties as being right-wing biased and by right-wingers as being leftie-biased).

  23. #173
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by odyseus10 View Post
    Still doesn't excuse you insulting people does it ?
    The only insult you received was "snowflake". I do not think it needs an excuse. If you do, I suggest you find a cosy safe room and wrap yourself in a safety blanket.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  24. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    I can't understand this thread...

    M.
    It's like a Rolex Grand Seiko thread but about a fictional character of a popular children's television programme.

  25. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    The only insult you received was "snowflake". I do not think it needs an excuse. If you do, I suggest you find a cosy safe room and wrap yourself in a safety blanket.
    I don't recall you actually answering my question, whether this was the death of Dr Who?

  26. #176
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    We've has a scarecrow, a vet, Malcolm Tucker and a shouty bloke with big ears, so why not a woman?


    Anyway, I'd have thought that Russel T Davies' pro-gay agenda would have been of more concern to the bigots.

  27. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by odyseus10 View Post
    I don't recall you actually answering my question, whether this was the death of Dr Who?
    The answer is irrelevant. If she dies (s)he'll regenerate.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  28. #178
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    You know what's more p*ss pathetic than most of this whiney drivel?
    Its the assertion that by casting a woman to play the Dr. It's "pandering" and "trendy".

    Like acknowledging the ability of someone with boobs to play a constantly regenerating non human time traveller is a sign of some brand new conspiracy.

    Grow up.

  29. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post

    boobs





    Grow up.

    you said boobs Te he he .

  30. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    The answer is irrelevant. If she dies (s)he'll regenerate.
    I meant death od Dr Who as series?

  31. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by seadog1408 View Post
    you said boobs Te he he .
    In the g and d no less ;)

  32. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by odyseus10 View Post
    I meant death od Dr Who as series?

    Nah... the concept is strong enough to withstand this, and it has an established fan base.

    To some extent I think they had to do this, as there has been so much speculation for so long. If she's great - fine. If she isn't, they'll regenerate her back to a bloke and the point has been made and the argument settled to some extent.

    I'm not really a fan though - while I think the overall concept of Dr Who is one of the strongest ever, to me it isn't science fiction. It is a monster show with a few good ideas but a bit of lazy writing that usually uses some convaluted pseudo scientific explanation to give the Doctor victory at the last moment - when there has often been absolutely no set-up for the "win" in the script.

    "Oh, I just reversed the polarity on the phase transducer and used the resulting temporal anomaly to reset the timeline and save the universe." Did you indeed? Where did that come from, because there was no clue to this solution anywhere else in the episode.
    So clever my foot fell off.

  33. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    In the g and d no less ;)
    You devil!, pity it's not the BP I could have done a few gags about the sonic screwdriver getting a workout!!


    Mike

  34. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana View Post
    Nah... the concept is strong enough to withstand this, and it has an established fan base.

    To some extent I think they had to do this, as there has been so much speculation for so long. If she's great - fine. If she isn't, they'll regenerate her back to a bloke and the point has been made and the argument settled to some extent.
    Actually, that's a point I'd not really thought of. No matter how well she does (and obviously a huge amount of that is writer / script dependent as she's clearly a good actor), if they turn The Doctor back into a bloke at the end of her run, then those who are crying about this now will use it as a reason to slate the initial appointment even more 'it didn't work out, I know it wouldn't...' 'should have stayed with a bloke, people with vaginas can't act' etc, etc.
    So they've got a bit of a rod for their own back. Hopefully they will have the next regeneration after this into a woman as well :)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana View Post
    I'm not really a fan though - while I think the overall concept of Dr Who is one of the strongest ever, to me it isn't science fiction. It is a monster show with a few good ideas but a bit of lazy writing that usually uses some convaluted pseudo scientific explanation to give the Doctor victory at the last moment - when there has often been absolutely no set-up for the "win" in the script.

    "Oh, I just reversed the polarity on the phase transducer and used the resulting temporal anomaly to reset the timeline and save the universe." Did you indeed? Where did that come from, because there was no clue to this solution anywhere else in the episode.
    Agree with this, but at the end of the day it's a family show that kids can watch. All kids want is a cliffhanger at the end with a bit of suspense, so they can talk about it at school the following day, or a hero to save the day from whatever monster he/she is facing.

  35. #185
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seadog1408 View Post
    You devil!, pity it's not the BP I could have done a few gags about the sonic screwdriver getting a workout!!
    And, in a nutshell, why I don't visit the BP...

    M.

  36. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    And, in a nutshell, why I don't visit the BP...

    M.
    yep, probably best you don't.

  37. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by rsykes2000 View Post
    Actually, that's a point I'd not really thought of. No matter how well she does (and obviously a huge amount of that is writer / script dependent as she's clearly a good actor), if they turn The Doctor back into a bloke at the end of her run, then those who are crying about this now will use it as a reason to slate the initial appointment even more 'it didn't work out, I know it wouldn't...' 'should have stayed with a bloke, people with vaginas can't act' etc, etc.
    So they've got a bit of a rod for their own back. Hopefully they will have the next regeneration after this into a woman as well :)



    Agree with this, but at the end of the day it's a family show that kids can watch. All kids want is a cliffhanger at the end with a bit of suspense, so they can talk about it at school the following day, or a hero to save the day from whatever monster he/she is facing.
    I still think that the writers should have just killed off "Doctor Who" - make Peter Capaldi the last "Doctor" something along these lines..As they can be pretty lazy at the writing...

    Doctor Who (Capandi) gets summoned back to Galifrei by the Time Lords.

    You used too many regenerations Doctor. your time is at an end.

    Capaldi pleads "who will save the Universe and look after Humankind" etc and bows out in dramatic fashion. Doctor Who as we know him is at an end and dies.

    The Timelords require a replacement, cue a New Timelord character the first generation of a female Timelord.

    She get's given the key to the Tardis and off she goes on her adventures - a new reboot for the Sci-fi series. Future re-generations will be female. The show can carry on as Doctor Who,
    although the writers would have to think up a new name for the new Timelord.

    If the audience doesn't take to a female doctor, better then just to finish the series, because going back to a male role will just be lame.

    Remember Sci-Fi fans like continuity and a 'Timeline" that sort of makes some sense.

  38. #188
    Master Harry Smith's Avatar
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    Just about every media and fora seems to have a thread about this subject. I think it's timely to start a thread for those who actually don't give a toss about Doctor buggering Who.

  39. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Smith View Post
    Just about every media and fora seems to have a thread about this subject. I think it's timely to start a thread for those who actually don't give a toss about Doctor buggering Who.
    Sorry you've been forced to read and comment on the 2 threads about this. It's a shame the other 4000 active threads about non-Doctor Who things have been locked ;)

  40. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Smith View Post
    Just about every media and fora seems to have a thread about this subject. I think it's timely to start a thread for those who actually don't give a toss about Doctor buggering Who.
    Not a fan then??

  41. #191
    Master unclealec's Avatar
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    This thread has established a new record; 192 posts without some pedant pointing out that the character is called "the Doctor", not "Doctor Who".
    Except I just have done.

    To be fair someone may have mentioned it but I tried trawling through and glazed over.

  42. #192
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclealec View Post
    This thread has established a new record; 192 posts without some pedant pointing out that the character is called "the Doctor", not "Doctor Who".
    Except I just have done.

    To be fair someone may have mentioned it but I tried trawling through and glazed over.
    Is Valentino Rossi a character in Dr Who?
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  43. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Alansmithee View Post
    Do the males in your family spend a lot of time noting down which TV hosts and characters are guy and straight?

    Purely for research purposes I'm sure.
    No not really, it's just tv, but if you watch the BBC it's all gone a bit too pc imho. So I think my son has a point if I'm honest, which mildly irritates him. Mostly because it's becoming a bit boring and predictable, and apparently upsets people if you point out the obvious


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  44. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by RobDad View Post
    No not really, it's just tv, but if you watch the BBC it's all gone a bit too pc imho. So I think my son has a point if I'm honest, which mildly irritates him. Mostly because it's becoming a bit boring and predictable, and apparently upsets people if you point out the obvious


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Well, your first 'obvious' point of :

    "every hero of every movie, be it Star Wars or Dr Who or whatever is an 'empowered woman' with the men portrayed as either evil or idiots or both"

    was shown to be a load of old crap earlier in the thread. You failed to respond to that though.

    As for chat shows, I have to confess I don't watch any. However, a quick googling seems to show that there are/were apparently 30 talk show hosts on in England -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:English_television_talk_show_hosts

    Of those, 4 are (or were in the case of Russell Harty), gay. So, your second point, as regards the facts, is also bollocks.

  45. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobDad View Post
    No not really, it's just tv, but if you watch the BBC it's all gone a bit too pc imho. So I think my son has a point if I'm honest, which mildly irritates him. Mostly because it's becoming a bit boring and predictable, and apparently upsets people if you point out the obvious
    Upsets people enough to make them wonder what's wrong with being a heterosexual male?

  46. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana View Post
    Nah... the concept is strong enough to withstand this.

    It is a monster show with a few good ideas but a bit of lazy writing that usually uses some convaluted pseudo scientific explanation to give the Doctor victory at the last moment - when there has often been absolutely no set-up for the "win" in the script.

    "Oh, I just reversed the polarity on the phase transducer and used the resulting temporal anomaly to reset the timeline and save the universe." Did you indeed? Where did that come from, because there was no clue to this solution anywhere else in the episode.
    Agreed. love the concept - always have - but, since Tennant, the new players have been poor.

    And, excluding the odd belter, the plots, as you say, rely on flimsy writing.

    Edit:- At the risk of being flamed by wimminfolk, l will say that much of the doctors character - especially his essential flaws - are linked to his being male. Though, if we introduce fluctuating hormones, there could be some interesting plot twists - Episode 1 -"visit to the chocolate planet". Episode 6 - " well Davros, if you dont know why lm upset lm not going to tell you". Episode 3 - "l look fat don't l?"...
    Last edited by Umbongo; 19th July 2017 at 21:14.

  47. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by rsykes2000 View Post
    Well, your first 'obvious' point of :

    "every hero of every movie, be it Star Wars or Dr Who or whatever is an 'empowered woman' with the men portrayed as either evil or idiots or both"

    was shown to be a load of old crap earlier in the thread. You failed to respond to that though.

    As for chat shows, I have to confess I don't watch any. However, a quick googling seems to show that there are/were apparently 30 talk show hosts on in England -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:English_television_talk_show_hosts

    Of those, 4 are (or were in the case of Russell Harty), gay. So, your second point, as regards the facts, is also bollocks.
    I didn't respond as I was too busy having a life. I suggest you calm down dear, and grow a pair. I made a flippant point about a tv show on a watch website and apparently I'm some kind of bigot who isn't entitled to an opinion. If you watch Dr Who as my son has over the last few years, many episodes take an opportunity to somehow shoehorn in the sexuality of characters where it has no bearing whatsoever on the story. And it seems a bit incongruous and daft. But it doesn't keep me awake at night. And superhero movies inhabit a whole world of stupid, not sure they illustrate anything of any worth


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  48. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    Upsets people enough to make them wonder what's wrong with being a heterosexual male?
    Sorry, you've lost me?


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  49. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by RobDad View Post
    I didn't respond as I was too busy having a life. I suggest you calm down dear, and grow a pair. I made a flippant point about a tv show on a watch website and apparently I'm some kind of bigot who isn't entitled to an opinion. If you watch Dr Who as my son has over the last few years, many episodes take an opportunity to somehow shoehorn in the sexuality of characters where it has no bearing whatsoever on the story. And it seems a bit incongruous and daft. But it doesn't keep me awake at night. And superhero movies inhabit a whole world of stupid, not sure they illustrate anything of any worth


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My pair is fine, thanks 😉
    I suggest if you are feeling the need to bemoan the apparent lack of real heterosexual film 'heroes' (and you were the one that used that word first) and talk show hosts, that you actually come at people with proof rather than vaguely meninist clichés and anti-women sentiments. Have a lovely evening ☺️

  50. #200
    Grand Master Velorum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobDad View Post
    ......many episodes take an opportunity to somehow shoehorn in the sexuality of characters where it has no bearing whatsoever on the story.
    It does seem a bit over the top sometimes. I have to admit the storyline involving the lesbian lizard woman who had an affair with her human maid and then married her shortly after eating Jack The Ripper was rather amusing.

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