Reply With QuoteHave a look on detailing world
It won't be £1000 do some research around the detailers you'll be surprised
I notice that the bonnet on my old porsche has started to develop a few swirlies so was thinking of getting it professional polished, however if I am going that far should I also be considering ceramic coating or something like Xpel.
Either way way it's going to cost about a 1k, but still a lot cheaper than a Windows out respray 5 years down the line.
Anyone with any experience of either?
Mant thanks.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Have a look on detailing world
It won't be £1000 do some research around the detailers you'll be surprised
You can do it yourself for a lot less . I've put ceramic coats on some new stuff and old stuff . Detailing world has a lot of info and there's a lot of waffle too . I've spent all week preparing one car for a concourse show this weekend funnily enough
Can someone explain the principle behind ceramic polishes and why they're such a good idea?
As a classic car fan and (former) industrial chemist I'm intrigued to learn more.
I've also been known to polish the odd watch or two so I've a fair understanding about how the eye perceives ( or doesn't perceive) scratches.
Forgive my cynicism, but a surface coating a few microns thick, travelling at 70mph, versus a stone, is a one-sided contest. Please enlighten me if I'm missing a trick.
Paul
Very true, this is from Gtechniq's FAQ page:Originally Posted by walkerwek1958
As a side note on this: ceramic or any other type of paint coating, no matter how much their marketing claims tell you otherwise, cannot offer any meaningful protection against stone chipping as in order to absorb the impact of a pebble travelling at triple digit speeds, you need to have a relatively thick and relatively soft membrane. PPF film is approximately 150 microns thick and our coatings are approximately 1 micron thick (please be very skeptical if you hear marketing claims of coatings that say they offer more than this). And whilst a thick and soft film works very well at absorbing stone chips, it is much more susceptible to micro marring (some newer films self heal which addresses this issue) whereas a thin hard film such as Crystal Serum or Crystal Lacquer provides optimum protection against micro marring.
http://gtechniq.com/customer-service/faq/
I had Gtech ceramic done to my Porsche. However you need to get the surface PERFECT before application since it forms a rock hard coating so anything left marring or scratch or swirl wise will still be there and quite visible! My detailing guy spent several days before hand using multiple DA passes to get the paintwork perfect before applying the coating. I paid £700 for the best part of 5 days work (went mid-day on the Friday) but only about an hour of that was actually applying the coating (two coats separated by a day).
The results were eye popping good and it was a lot easier to keep clean and wash after this was done.... the snowfoam would simply drop off the surface!
May offer protection against swirlies around handles and small scratches caused by driving close to vegetation in countryside.
Personally don't understand detailing. In the real world (supermarket etc) it will soon pick up marks however careful the owner is.
Last edited by Kingstepper; 14th July 2017 at 07:35.
Also reduces marks caused by washing/drying. I find that a lot of damage done to paintwork is scratching whilst washing. Even using 'two buckets' and a sheepskin mitt, etc, etc, you still end up with a build up of micro scratches which reduce shine. Ceramic helps stop these. Also it helps reduce the build up of surface grime (which simply washes off) and oxidation.. again helping shine. I was so taken by the effects of a good detailing session and ceramic coating that it's something I would now get done as a matter of course with any car purchase even brand new.
I suppose it also depends on the car and whether you own it or not. If it was a rental/loan (leased) and going back in 3 years time then there's very little incentive to to anything more than the absolute minimum re. car washing/waxing/etc.
prep is key , you can use a DA , i hav a basic megs DA ( fairly idiot proof but you can still kill a paint edge easy ) and ive some rupes machines . They dont tel you 9 times out of 10 you need a topper coat every so often to maintain it and generally a yearly visit back to Mr detailer. I first tried a coating on a brand new transit sport van last year after being a died in the wool zymol man . The van is used as a weekend toy car type thing so will not get hammer as the previous sportvan was a year old when it was sold and did about 8k. Any way it was collected last August untouched from the dealers ( no prep ) and brought straight home and into the garage and washed then clayed to have a walk round and remove any fallout or decontaminants. I did find areas of damage which was expected ( scuffs swirls to everyone else ) which were nibbed off with the rupes then it was ready for the coating . this one had a pre coat to prep/ clean the surface which was then followed by the coating which was put on a panel ish at a time . It was easy to put on with minimal pronelms then as normal left over night to harden . it requires this just to stop dust / crap settling in it ....job done in few hours . it has since had several scans to check it over and look for anything . it has acquired about 7 stone chips ( yes i count them having a bit of OCD on the cleaning front ) but has worn better than the previous year old van and there is no swirls / marring and just a couple of marks. What did convince me was when i hit the van with a bucket by accident and it left a white mark on the van from the plastic, this wiped off ( rubbed off quite vigorously ) AND LEFT NO MARK where as the old black van paint was very soft and i could scratch that with my hand very easily .
They have a use but you need to be aware of what you are doing and the key is all in the prep. I have done a few since and it has its place and they are good but the age old phrase you cannot polish a turd is true
https://i.imgur.com/wQM4WgE.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XhIhVJJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fWByl8f.jpg
Last edited by P ELLIS; 14th July 2017 at 07:52.
All sound advice :-)
dunno if the links work with this imgur lark as my PB has been killed off by PB
I've switched to imgbb and it's really easy to use (see image in previous post).dunno if the links work with this imgur lark as my PB has been killed off by PB
Fixed the images, don't have time for the textprep is key , you can use a DA , i hav a basic megs DA ( fairly idiot proof but you can still kill a paint edge easy ) and ive some rupes machines . They dont tel you 9 times out of 10 you need a topper coat every so often to maintain it and generally a yearly visit back to Mr detailer. I first tried a coating on a brand new transit sport van last year after being a died in the wool zymol man . The van is used as a weekend toy car type thing so will not get hammer as the previous sportvan was a year old when it was sold and did about 8k. Any way it was collected last August untouched from the dealers ( no prep ) and brought straight home and into the garage and washed then clayed to have a walk round and remove any fallout or decontaminants. I did find areas of damage which was expected ( scuffs swirls to everyone else ) which were nibbed off with the rupes then it was ready for the coating . this one had a pre coat to prep/ clean the surface which was then followed by the coating which was put on a panel ish at a time . It was easy to put on with minimal pronelms then as normal left over night to harden . it requires this just to stop dust / crap settling in it ....job done in few hours . it has since had several scans to check it over and look for anything . it has acquired about 7 stone chips ( yes i count them having a bit of OCD on the cleaning front ) but has worn better than the previous year old van and there is no swirls / marring and just a couple of marks. What did convince me was when i hit the van with a bucket by accident and it left a white mark on the van from the plastic, this wiped off ( rubbed off quite vigorously ) AND LEFT NO MARK where as the old black van paint was very soft and i could scratch that with my hand very easily .
They have a use but you need to be aware of what you are doing and the key is all in the prep. I have done a few since and it has its place and they are good but the age old phrase you cannot polish a turd is true
I could not be arsed with the text! Its too early and i am sat tossing it off at workFixed the images, don't have time for the text
if you clean your car or have some monkey do it for you and done well you dont really need to touch it to wash it after that as long as you clean it often
You use the two bucket/grit guard method but i have not done that for ages.
I snow foam them and leave it to dwell ( you need a good lance and a good applicator as well as a good )
You could apply a TFR then rinse it off with the jet wash and re apply to dwell again , then you could use a wool mitt to move it about safely as the grit has already gone and wash the mitt in the 2 buckets . Remove any alloy wheel cleaner you have used eg dragons piss or whatever you fancy then rinse off the vehicle after that
Have a brew then dry it using microfibres and spray a little detailing spray onto the cloth to whip off and droplet marks and not leave any smears
Mince round dressing any wheels , trim , glass etc and tidy up
Sounds long winded but its not
I bought one of the karcher offers on amazon prime as a spare and that is plenty man enough if you add the above to it . You will also find there are many favourite ways of doing it but the above works for me
On a related matter I am a huge fan of Gyeon Q2m Bathe + shampoo.
Just squirt some in the bucket on every wash and then every 4th wash put some neat on the mitt after the first wash / rinse and quickly go over the car again. Water beads like it has just been waxed and substantially reduces water marks and swirls as everything glides over the surface
if it works for you go for it , i had some experimental detailer with enhanced SiO2 which was a right mare to get off
Most if not all ceramic coating are this with one or two being SiC with added guff to sound special
Wax etc provides a "sacrificial" layer that the tree sap, dirt etc. adheres to so when you are washing the car you remove the dirt and a tiny proportion of the wax. Modern cars have "clearcoat" or lacquer over the paint so whilst the paint doesn't fade any more - remember those pink, once red cars you used to see, the finish can't be restored with T-Cut so anymore.
The ceramic coatings do work, but their function is not to protect from stone chips, but to protect the paint from the dirt & make it easier to keep the car clean. If you look at a car that has not been cared for in the sunlight you will see a myriad of scatches in the clear coat which, if you like you cars to look good, look awful.
Wax, or high tech coatings are simply trying to protect your paint from the vagaries of poor washing and make the car easier to clean as well as beautifully shiny. Like anything you can get carried away but taking care or your car's paint can reap rewards when you wash the car and when you sell it.
Many thanks guys. I did some more reading and have decided to give Poorboys Black Hole ago to see what difference this makes in the short term.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I put a liquid elements ceramic coating on my A5 when it was brand new. 18 months later there is still evidence that it is still working. I did it in a three stage prep and applied the coating. Took a day and it was hard work but it was well worth doing.
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Poorboys Black Hole is excellent, but you need to use a wax on top, such as Poorboys Natty's Paste Wax. Once you've done that, an occasional application of Poorboys QD+ will keep it in top condition. You'll need to repeat the Black Hole/Natty's a couple of times a year.
If you use a ceramic coating on old paint, regardless of whether you've machine polished it, all you do is seal over the imperfections.
I've been thinking of having this done to my 997 for a while and I've finally booked it this morning.
For reference, the time frame and price will be similar to the above. I was quoted much less elsewhere but there's no way it could be applied to a perfect-as-possible surface on a well-used car for much cheaper.
Very excited to see the final results, but they couldn't fit me in until the end of August so I have quite a wait.
Last edited by Tony; 19th July 2017 at 15:06.
black hole and white diamond are full of fillers and not really going to last long and do much . I use it to quickly tidy up the shine on the old banger at car shows as its cheap and cheerful
I think you'll be very happy with the results. It's amazing the results you get from a really good detailer - better than new!
You tend to find that there's a long wait time for a good detailer. The guy I use is typically 3 months to get a slot. I'd be wary of any one/company that said 'no problem how about next week?' ! ;-)
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