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Thread: 2824 handwinding

  1. #1
    Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    2824 handwinding

    I'm asking this question here, as I'm especially interested in the opinions of people with hands on experience of the issue.

    One of the first bits of received wisdom I learnt from The Forums was that 2824s Do Not Like Handwinding. The watch I wear half the time has a 2824, and so twice a week, having stopped, it is started up again with a few turns of crown (another bit of received wisdom) Alternatively, I could get a winder and never handwind it again, but I'm sure there's yet more received wisdom about winders....

    As, to me, it's all looking a bit six of one, half dozen of the other, I would like to know this:

    is the part of the 2824 that gets worn by handwinding cheaply/easily replaceable when serviced, and would you expect it to be causing problems before the rest of the movement wants servicing?

    (Can't help worrying that when things get worn, they produce dust that has to go somewhere)
    Last edited by Der Amf; 5th July 2017 at 08:48.

  2. #2
    Grand Master
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    In my opinion these movements (and the same applies to the 2892) are not designed to be hand-wound routinely. The reversers (small wheels with tiny ratchets) enable movement of the rotor in both directions to drive the ratchet wheel in one direction, they're small parts which under normal operation move slowly as the rotor moves. When the watch is hand wound they spin rapidly and that puts a lot more stress on them. This is bound to cause faster wear, but It's not easy to predict how this will relate to early failure. One thing's for certain, it definitely shortens their life, particularly when the reversers are lacking lubrication because the watch hasn't been serviced for years.

    The second problem area with the 2824 is the winding wheel and sliding pinion. Compared to older hand - wound designs the parts are small and not robust. However, the problem that afflicts the 2824 is a bit more subtle: during hand-winding the back of the winding wheel contacts the mainplate. Eventually this leads to wear, and this accentuates wear between the stem and the mainplate because the stem no longer runs true. ETA don't stipulate lubrication to the back of the winding wheel but I always apply a spot of grease. Even on watches that are relatively new there's always a witness mark caused by the wheel making contact. Eventually the wear to the mainplate causes the winding wheel to lose engagement when hand-winding, causing a 'slipping' feeling through the crown. in handset the sliding pinion won' t engage properly and the handsetting will be erratic. The cure is a new mainplate, stem, sliding pinion and winding wheel . ETA parts will get more expensive and harder to source owing to Swatch Group policy, so it doesn't make sense to treat these parts as consumables!

    I've worked on hand-wound 1950s watches that show minimal wear to the mainplate and keyless work despite many years of use; that's a tribute to the design and the quality of parts. The ETA automatics aren't in the same league in this respect.........but they were never designed to be hand-wound daily!

    My advice is to give your ETA movement a few twists of the crown to get it running properly then wear it. Provided it's been serviced in living memory it shoudn't incur significant wear. If the auto-winding starts to be ineficient get it sorted, don't resort to hand-winding as a long-term alternative to getting it fixed. If the hand-winding starts to feel stiff or gritty get the watch sorted out, they can suffer from lack of lubrication to the crown wheel too.

    At this point the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' brigade will be having fits of apoplexy.......and rightly so! These movements do like to be serviced every few years.

    Paul
    Last edited by walkerwek1958; 6th July 2017 at 10:18.

  3. #3
    Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    Thank you for this, it's been giving me plenty to think about, and I've been having a good think.

    I've never found that my arm movements are enough to fully charge any of the autos I've had. I just seem to move without moving. So either I live with the PR always being rather low, or I get a winder and pop the watch on that the night before I want to wear it. In an ideal world, the 2824 would turn into a 2801. Mmm, manuals.

  4. #4
    Grand Master
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    Provided the self-winding is working correctly the 2824 is a very efficient winder and most wearers don't have problems. However, the power reserve's only 38-40hrs so ideally they need wearing daily to keep the watch running in a high state of wind.

    Paul

  5. #5
    Grand Master
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    Update!

    Just got one on the bench that's suffering the same symptoms. Breguet teeth on the clutch sliding pinion and winding wheel are chewed up slightly, and that's enough to make the watch 'slip' whilst hand-winding. This is a movement fitted to an un-named sterile-dialled watch made in small numbers and the problem's likely to be caused by the movement not quite lining up with the pendant tube. The movement was loose in the case, so that ties up. The stem' had lateral loading applied owing to the mismatch and that's worn the mainplate slightly. This causes the winding wheel to rock around because the stem doesn`t locate it correctly and once it's jumped out of engagement with the sliding pinion the tips of the teeth will strip. Hopefully a new stem, winding pinion and sliding pinion will fix things, and I`ll ensure the movement's aligned in the case correctly and secured. I`m fairly certain this will fix it, otherwise it could start getting expensive.

    Keyless work is definitely an Achilles heel with these movements, and one small problem can lead to other larger ones eventually.

    Paul

  6. #6
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    Great information - thanks very much for sharing Paul. I have a couple of watches with the 28XX movements (including a Tissot that must be 15-20 years old) so I'll go easy on the hand winding in future.

    Sent from my E5823 using TZ-UK mobile app

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