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Thread: Poor mans BLNR

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch View Post
    Around and around goes this subject.

    The only thing that matters in a capitalist market economy is, is it legal?

    If it is legal then market demand will be filled. If there is market demand for something that looks like a Rolex but at a lower price point then someone will fill it. Rolex could fill it themselves and take the profit from that segment of the market if they wanted to. They don't want to though, as they feel, quite rightly, that it would get people to question and reduce demand in the higher segment of the market they currently target.

    I don't really get this, 'someone originated the design or tech and therefore all other makers who produce similar items are somehow to be looked down on'.

    There are loads of similar situations. Philips invented and developed the Compact Cassette and brought it to market. In the 1960s I bought the Philips EL3302 then and it was very nice.

    Philips did not prevent other companies 'copying' their tech and design. Does that mean every subsequent buyer of a non-Philips PCC player was to be disparaged as they were buying copied design and tech instead of remaining 'pure' with Philips? Does anyone make this argument? I don't think so and I see little difference just because something might be a different product.

    Is it legal, is the only question that need to be asked in a market economy, is it homaging, copying a more 'pure' product is pretty irrelevant really. Individuals will buy what they feel best meets their mix of priorities. If someone wants 'purity' even at greater expense they will buy accordingly as will someone who is not bothered.

    Both legal and acceptable choices.



    Mitch
    Yes all good points but the OP is 'pining' for a Rolex BLNR and in many people's opinion a blatant copy will likely not cure his pining feeling longer term so these copies are arguably false economy

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  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by stix View Post
    Interesting to note they all did and or do use ETA movements and are "Swiss Made"!
    There is Swiss Made and then there is 'Swiss Made'. I am sure you know that.

  3. #53
    Craftsman Frakius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch View Post
    Around and around goes this subject.

    The only thing that matters in a capitalist market economy is, is it legal?

    If it is legal then market demand will be filled. If there is market demand for something that looks like a Rolex but at a lower price point then someone will fill it. Rolex could fill it themselves and take the profit from that segment of the market if they wanted to. They don't want to though, as they feel, quite rightly, that it would get people to question and reduce demand in the higher segment of the market they currently target.

    I don't really get this, 'someone originated the design or tech and therefore all other makers who produce similar items are somehow to be looked down on'.

    There are loads of similar situations. Philips invented and developed the Compact Cassette and brought it to market. In the 1960s I bought the Philips EL3302 then and it was very nice.

    Philips did not prevent other companies 'copying' their tech and design. Does that mean every subsequent buyer of a non-Philips PCC player was to be disparaged as they were buying copied design and tech instead of remaining 'pure' with Philips? Does anyone make this argument? I don't think so and I see little difference just because something might be a different product.

    Is it legal, is the only question that need to be asked in a market economy, is it homaging, copying a more 'pure' product is pretty irrelevant really. Individuals will buy what they feel best meets their mix of priorities. If someone wants 'purity' even at greater expense they will buy accordingly as will someone who is not bothered.

    Both legal and acceptable choices.



    Mitch
    I agree mostly with this, however watches are luxury fashion items if we are honest with ourselves and as such a homage like these are, at more than 10 feet, going to look like a Rolex to most people. Now you may not be trying to deceive them or yourself but the end result is that is what happens, they will think it's a Rolex. That's the thing that makes me not wear them, you are giving the appearance of having something you don't actually own and I personally find that I don't like that. If you don't mind people thinking that then go for it of course!

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataripower View Post
    Yes all good points but the OP is 'pining' for a Rolex BLNR and in many people's opinion a blatant copy will likely not cure his pining feeling longer term so these copies are arguably false economy

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    So at £400-600 roughly with a great resale value, it's a false economy against £7695. Yes right mate!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    There is Swiss Made and then there is 'Swiss Made'. I am sure you know that.
    No, do explain though.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by stix View Post
    So at £400-600 roughly with a great resale value, it's a false economy against £7695. Yes right mate!

    - - - Updated - - -



    No, do explain though.
    It's false economy in terms of time and cost as ultimately he will likely not be genuinely satisfied with his purchase so what's the point.

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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataripower View Post
    It's false economy in terms of time and cost as ultimately he will likely not be genuinely satisfied with his purchase so what's the point.

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    Obviously, there isn't one to you, which is ok. That's the beauty of this hobby

  7. #57
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    My 2 pennies worth:
    1. The op is minded to look at a Steinhart and might buy it to scratch his itch for the BLNR (a very pretty watch but too big for me I think).
    2. He will know if that will suffice or,as others have suggested,he should put his name on the waiting list and start saving/negotiating 0% finance etc.
    3. The question of "homage" watches is moot - there is a line for many of us where,other than the maker's name on the dial - it moves into replica/fake territory.
    My daughter had a boyfriend who,IIRC,had a fake/replica Rolex (although he could easily have afforded at least one of the real sports models) but paid to have it serviced like any other mechanical watch. Why?

  8. #58
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataripower View Post
    Yes all good points but the OP is 'pining' for a Rolex BLNR and in many people's opinion a blatant copy will likely not cure his pining feeling longer term so these copies are arguably false economy

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    Let's me wear the "look" for not a lot of coin, and steinharts on the secondary market are notorious for holding on to their value really well so on resale I doubt much if any money would be lost, so I go t see where the false economy is?


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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frakius View Post
    I agree mostly with this, however watches are luxury fashion items if we are honest with ourselves and as such a homage like these are, at more than 10 feet, going to look like a Rolex to most people. Now you may not be trying to deceive them or yourself but the end result is that is what happens, they will think it's a Rolex. That's the thing that makes me not wear them, you are giving the appearance of having something you don't actually own and I personally find that I don't like that. If you don't mind people thinking that then go for it of course!
    See now if I save hard and get a Rolex BLNR I'm going to be walking around fretting that people are going to think I've got a steinhart on my wrist


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  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    Let's me wear the "look" for not a lot of coin, and steinharts on the secondary market are notorious for holding on to their value really well so on resale I doubt much if any money would be lost, so I go t see where the false economy is?


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    There will be a financial loss however small when the watch is sold and then there is the time wasted buying and selling a pointless copy when this effort could have gone to saving and negotiating a deal on the real thing, which will make the op truly happy. There you go, false economy all round

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataripower View Post
    There will be a financial loss however small when the watch is sold and then there is the time wasted buying and selling a pointless copy when this effort could have gone to saving and negotiating a deal on the real thing, which will make the op truly happy. There you go, false economy all round
    Maybe the false economy is buying a Swiss watch which allegedly costs roughly 1/10th of the final price to actually manufacture. It's all pointless, that's the point

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by stix View Post
    Maybe the false economy is buying a Swiss watch which allegedly costs roughly 1/10th of the final price to actually manufacture. It's all pointless, that's the point
    It is all pointless I agree, but hey it keeps me out of trouble mostly

  13. #63

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by John Wall View Post
    I thought "homage" watches were supposed to be affordable - you could get a decent used omega or similar for that money.

  15. #65
    Master robcuk's Avatar
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    To me, there is but one BLNR, the others will not satisfy the itch.

    a year ago I would have laughed in your face if you'd suggested I'd own a Rolex, today I own this:


  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataripower View Post
    There will be a financial loss however small when the watch is sold and then there is the time wasted buying and selling a pointless copy when this effort could have gone to saving and negotiating a deal on the real thing, which will make the op truly happy. There you go, false economy all round
    Ok considering that I AM the OP..... I can assure you - doing without any purchases in my watch hobby for at least 3 yrs would NOT make me "truly happy" - au contraire it sounds like abject misery! As for it being a "pointless copy" that's subjective surely. It's obvious what your own views of the brand are and of course that's fine. I think the difference is that I am only curious about this 'new' piece. I'm not committed to purchasing it, but I wouldn't brand it pointless either. In fact calling a £500-£600 potential purchase pointless is pretty harsh. If someone was spending £39,000 on a Richard Mille I wouldn't understand that at all - but I wouldn't rain on their parade calling it overpriced tosh either. Oh well. Different strokes for different folks...


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  17. #67
    I like Steinhart and have owned their watches along with other homages (Marcello C etc) I have no problem with them at all, spending thousands it not for everyone and if you like the design why should you not have what you want?

    Only thing I will say is I put off buying what I wanted (Submariner) for a number of years while I saved/tried to justify the purchase, as hard as I saved the price continued to rise and id probably have been better off buying at the start (where there's a will there's a way)

    So although I dont agree that owning a homage is pointless, I do think if its a stop-gap whilst waiting/saving it may be better to just go for it sooner rather than later

    Of course the market may crash in which case dont blame me :)

  18. #68
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Yeah there's every chance that if I saved for a BLNR for a couple of years the price will prob have gone up by more than the price of a steinhart lol. Had another close look at the teaser picture. Couple of things....
    I don't think bezel is steel it looks titanium.
    The numbers on the chapter ring - only appear on the proTi500,
    In short I think it's the batman version of the titanium 500. Could be wrong of course but that would mean sword hands not mercedes too. Oh well no doubt pics will appear soon


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  19. #69
    I still have hard to believe why Steinhart don't made their own models. I guess the quality of their
    work is ok but it's sad just copy others design straight off.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jocke View Post
    I still have hard to believe why Steinhart don't made their own models. I guess the quality of their
    work is ok but it's sad just copy others design straight off.
    They do have their own models but they also do lots of homages. They also do a lot of forum Ltd editions which are bespoke


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  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    I hear you. There's another post about the BLNR on watch talk where the owner is terrified of going on holiday with the thing. If I'm gonna spend 8 grand or whatever on a watch I'd want to wear the damn thing! Life is FULL of products which are homages. You could argue fake fur homages real fur, cubic zirconia homages diamonds and so on. People seem to think the steinhart OVM that homages the milsub is acceptable simply because the milsub is 100k or something but for me there's not much difference to saying 8k is unattainable for many. I do own one steinhart still and I own one Rolex. I'd have no issue increasing it to two of each.


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    I don't think you read my post correctly I was merely asking how robust a blnr was and also about taking a much higher end watch for wearing in the evenings
    I am not terrified of taking a watch on holiday I usually take 2 or three and the blnr would be the daily wearer
    The blnr is a daily wear and just wondered how much punishment it could take
    I also own a few Breitling's and the Rolex looks and feels a lot more delicate

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby View Post
    I don't think you read my post correctly I was merely asking how robust a blnr was and also about taking a much higher end watch for wearing in the evenings
    I am not terrified of taking a watch on holiday I usually take 2 or three and the blnr would be the daily wearer
    The blnr is a daily wear and just wondered how much punishment it could take
    I also own a few Breitling's and the Rolex looks and feels a lot more delicate
    Ok sorry about misquoting you. Must have mistaken for some of the other posters comments, but I guess the point is sometimes it's good to have a low cost beater that you don't mind strolling through shadier parts of town with it on your wrist. Anyway, thanks for correcting my error.


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  23. #73
    This is a rehash of an old subject but I guess it is inevitable and can't fight it.
    In my view, it is fine and is down to individual choice. The only thing I object to is - don't call it a homage. It is a copy even with minor alterations and don't use excuses to justify it. One doesn't need to justify it.
    Trying to put down Rolex to justify ( not the OP who hasn't done it ) is plain disingenuous and silly.
    It may get mistaken for Rolex but I wouldn't imply that it is the motivation in buying these.
    Let us see what it actually is when Gnomon finally unveil it.

  24. #74
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    Personally I don't have an issue with homages/copies, some people are simply not in a position to drop 8 grand on a watch therefore the market for products like steinhart exists....a friend of mine who has been buying watches since the 60s laughs at Tudor and calls them rolex copies and says I should have bought the real thing... I suppose it's all subjective but I think there is a tendency to look down on lower priced alternatives which help people get a watch similar to their 'grail' for realistic money, as long as they don't put rolex on the dial it's fine by me......

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataripower View Post
    They probably could make a car that looked like an Aston but it would be a Skoda on the inside and perform like a Skoda

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    But if skoda revolutionised themselves buy producing an engine that performed as well on the inside ( also ascetically) then it will of achieved what steinhart have done with the ETA movement performing inside within chronometer standards to compete with a Rolex movement. I'd say engineering is getting better all the time.


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  26. #76
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    Another vote for buy what you can afford. If you like the design, go for it - who knows in a couple years you may come into some extra money and be in position to buy the Rolex, that is should the Steinhart not have already scratched that itch!


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  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    My whole post was about the fact i pine for the BLNR.
    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    Let's me wear the "look" for not a lot of coin
    Do you "pine for the BLNR" or just for the "look"?

    The most consistent thing on this thread is your desire to refute anything written by anyone else, which hasn't been the most nourishing of discussions to follow, tbh

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Amf View Post
    Do you "pine for the BLNR" or just for the "look"?

    The most consistent thing on this thread is your desire to refute anything written by anyone else, which hasn't been the most nourishing of discussions to follow, tbh
    Sorry you feel that way.

    I would love to own a BLNR one day but financially don't see that happening any time soon. So I was drawn into curiosity about this upcoming steinhart release. The comments I refuted were just ones I disagreed with - I wasn't salty. Having an opinion is still allowed on the forum right? . Some voice theirs and I agree whilst some voice and I disagree. No harm no foul. I really don't think comments comparing the brand to a skoda do anything other than further polarise the debate though. Designed to disparage I guess, but each to their own.

    As for whether I pine for the BLNR or the LOOK of the BLNR i don't really know. If I had unlimited funds then I would go straight BLNR, but I don't, so it might be I settle for second fiddle. The thread was about an unexpected alternative springing up out of nowhere that got me thinking, that's all. I think I pine for the actual BLNR rather than the look or maybe I would have bought a Squale or Davosa batman by now. Neither of those brands seem to get the same flak for copying though which is interesting in itself.


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  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    Ok sorry about misquoting you. Must have mistaken for some of the other posters comments, but I guess the point is sometimes it's good to have a low cost beater that you don't mind strolling through shadier parts of town with it on your wrist. Anyway, thanks for correcting my error.


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    No probs
    My advice buy what you can afford and if funds allow in future trade up

  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby View Post
    No probs
    My advice buy what you can afford and if funds allow in future trade up
    Sounds prudent. Of course I might not like this new offering. Still not seen it


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  31. #81
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    No release date on this one?

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  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefmcd View Post
    No release date on this one?

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    Tomorrow I believe


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  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    Sorry you feel that way.

    .......or maybe I would have bought a Squale or Davosa batman by now. Neither of those brands seem to get the same flak for copying though which is interesting in itself.


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    That is interesting. Marcello c don't get flak neither nor armida or tiger concept.
    It seems mostly Steinhart for a burning


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  34. #84
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    It's a shame Steinhart don't do homages of other brands. If they had a watch that looks like Seamaster 2254.50 I'd jump on it pronto. It's been discontinued for so long now it'd be a real homage not a copy.

  35. #85
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    Isn't it a bit like a Fender Stratocaster? So many companies make cheaper copies because it is such an iconic design. Even Fender make cheaper versions in Mexico and under the Squire brand. The Stat was just a perfect design that has not been bettered, much like the Rolex sub was just "right". But still the original USA Stat is considered the best in terms of quality, workmanship and tone, just as an authentic Rolex sub is considered better than all the copies.

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparjar View Post
    It's a shame Steinhart don't do homages of other brands. If they had a watch that looks like Seamaster 2254.50 I'd jump on it pronto. It's been discontinued for so long now it'd be a real homage not a copy.
    They do to a lesser extent but their Rolex clones are much more like copies


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  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    Sounds prudent. Of course I might not like this new offering. Still not seen it


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    Sounds like tomorrow could be the day to make your mind up

  38. #88
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    Homage is ok as long as your not trying to pull it off as real


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  39. #89
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    Appears to be a Triton


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  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby View Post
    Sounds like tomorrow could be the day to make your mind up
    Knowing me I'll have bought something before then. Patient saving isn't my thing. Prob why I don't have a BLNR


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  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    They have a Ceramic Tropical GMT which is a less blatant copy and a better alternative, IMO.
    There is no question about the quality of Steinhart which is perfectly acceptable at their price point but some are uncomfortably close to original. It bothers some but not all.
    No point litigating again and again.
    Isn't that squale?


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  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAddict View Post
    If you want the blue-black diver thing, then go for something original in design like the Turtle or the upcoming Samurai rather than these fakes.



    But I don't like the look of either of these!! (Like the BLNR though so better go Steinhart...)

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparjar View Post
    Personally if I couldn't afford product A I would never settle for product that looks like product A. I'd be a waste of money since I'd struggle to fool myself into thinking that this is what I really like and want (when what I want and like is product A). I'd rather find ways to obtain funds to get product A or buy something else that doesn't pretend to be something it isn't.
    But then I think it comes down to why you want A. Is it the look? in which case by product B if you cant afford A. Or if its the prestige, well that's another story...

  44. #94
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    Poor mans BLNR

    Quote Originally Posted by redmonaco View Post
    But then I think it comes down to why you want A. Is it the look? in which case by product B if you cant afford A. Or if its the prestige, well that's another story...
    Exactly this. I like product A. I like it because of the look and design. Why would opting for something that DOESN'T look like product A be an option? 🤦 - it's really down to nuance. Is it product A or the LOOK of product A that appeals. If it's the latter then a homage may suffice. If it's the former then it won't. Good, glad that's settled then


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  45. #95
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    If this is it, then the teaser photos have been a terrible tease:

    https://www.steinhartwatches.de/de/t...000-titan.html

  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHooky View Post
    If this is it, then the teaser photos have been a terrible tease:

    https://www.steinhartwatches.de/de/t...000-titan.html
    It's not that


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  47. #97

  48. #98
    Master OldHooky's Avatar
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    Good spot - only just posted.

    Such a shame about the date window - black on white

  49. #99
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    No, its this

    https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/d...t-premium.html

    Oops, crossed posted!

  50. #100
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