closing tag is in template navbar
timefactors watches



TZ-UK Fundraiser
Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: If you thought F1 was fast...

  1. #1
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Die Fuchsröhre
    Posts
    14,927

    If you thought F1 was fast...

    ...here's in-car footage of Kamui Kobayashi breaking the lap record at Le Mans:



    He's absolutely sublime through Indianapolis (where they turn in and then brake from the fastest part of the circuit) and Arnage, and then the Porsche Curves and the Ford Chichane.

    Here's 10 minutes of highlights:

    "A man of little significance"

  2. #2
    That entire lap is just sublime. WEC is far more interesting than F1 to me it just needs a couple more manufacturers for LMP1.

  3. #3
    Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Petersfield, Hampshire
    Posts
    6,310
    Lovely tidy lap, he makes it look like that chassis could easily handle even more power.

    Perhaps Toyota need to get Joest to run one of the cars next year.

  4. #4
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    522
    Precision driving at its best. He absolutely flies past those other cars. What a buzz that would be driving one of those.

  5. #5
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Die Fuchsröhre
    Posts
    14,927
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy67 View Post
    Lovely tidy lap, he makes it look like that chassis could easily handle even more power.

    Perhaps Toyota need to get Joest to run one of the cars next year.
    Now there's an idea. Toyota ran three cars this year, the theory being in 2015 and 2016 they lost one car each year to a silly accident and the other to an unforseen technical issue. They did 30,000km of testing this year but still had one technical (but not terminal) issue, one silly accident (to the extra car) and a failure due to a clutch issue. I still haven't worked out which one went past us at Indianapolis reeking of oil and rattling very unpleasantly! Ironically the Porsches also had failures, with the winning car spending a lot of time in the pits early on. Had an LMP2 car not taken out one of the Toyotas (or was it the other way round?), the Japanese company could well have won.

    On the plus side they've committed to next year's race, which is very good news. I bet Porsche can't believe their luck but it would be good to see a straight fight.

    I wonder how the Rebellion team feel after dropping LMP1 for LMP2? They still led for a long time, and finished second overall and first in class (I think their car that finished fourth overall and second in class has been disqualified), which is an amazing achievement, but it's just bad luck that with a pair of LMP1 non-hybrid cars this year had one stayed even relatively reliable it could have won.

    Not to take anything away from Porsche - Le Mans is a war of attrition. Now we just need to see the ACO adopt GT3 (look at the Bathurst 12 hours) as the junior GT category, turn GT AM into GT2 and make the GT Pro into GT1 with much more speed. The LMP2 cars were much faster and more impressive this year but they all look the same and run the same engines. All coupes too, no spiders at Le Mans as of 2016.

    There has to be a way of attracting companies like Peugeot, who have said they would like to come back but the costs are too prohibitive. Maybe split LMP1 into hybrid and a second, slower class much like LMP2 but for manufacturers (LMP2 is privateers only), with the stipulation they must offer customer cars (a Japanese privateer Audi R8 won in 2004).

    It was a bloody brilliant race this year, just a shame it was so hot!
    Last edited by Foxy100; 20th June 2017 at 11:18.
    "A man of little significance"

  6. #6
    Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Living for the here and now , but mindful of the past.
    Posts
    2,549
    Fantastic post Simon, thanks for sharing .

  7. #7
    Master
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Cheshire, UK
    Posts
    5,144
    I find this more interesting than formula 1 as well

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmNXCJt7K3Q


    B

  8. #8
    Craftsman eletos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    699
    Not a fan of motorbikes, but massive respect for the TT riders, unbelievable stuff, addictive viewing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Master
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    By the TOLL Road
    Posts
    4,987
    Blog Entries
    1
    Have not been the last two years, but its just the best week away ever, I had a great time in 2015 when I took my 4 year old grandson memories to treasure This year was a race to remember, the Aston v Vet fight was awesome.
    Last edited by hilly10; 20th June 2017 at 12:17.

  10. #10
    Craftsman Chris H's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Aberdeen
    Posts
    536
    Great lap from Kamui

    First time I've really followed the race live, watched the last 4 hours, really gripping racing

  11. #11
    Master reggie747's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    The Mersey Riviera
    Posts
    7,184
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    I find this more interesting than formula 1 as well

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmNXCJt7K3Q


    B
    Jesus wept.....the Guy Martin clip is like being on a trip !

  12. #12
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    London
    Posts
    592
    Great video.

    The TT vid is a bonus too.. haven't seen that. Just incredible..

  13. #13
    Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Bucks. UK.
    Posts
    1,393
    TT Is a different league to just about all motor sport events.. I'm no expert .. but I would really like to know a race with more commitment...

  14. #14
    Grand Master TheFlyingBanana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Bedfordshire and your back garden
    Posts
    23,109
    Quote Originally Posted by Damo View Post
    Precision driving at its best. He absolutely flies past those other cars. What a buzz that would be driving one of those.

    I'm presuming the other cars on the track were somebody's grandparents out for a Sunday afternoon drive.
    So clever my foot fell off.

  15. #15
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Posts
    24,924
    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy100 View Post
    Now there's an idea. Toyota ran three cars this year, the theory being in 2015 and 2016 they lost one car each year to a silly accident and the other to an unforseen technical issue. They did 30,000km of testing this year but still had one technical (but not terminal) issue, one silly accident (to the extra car) and a failure due to a clutch issue. I still haven't worked out which one went past us at Indianapolis reeking of oil and rattling very unpleasantly! Ironically the Porsches also had failures, with the winning car spending a lot of time in the pits early on. Had an LMP2 car not taken out one of the Toyotas (or was it the other way round?), the Japanese company could well have won.

    On the plus side they've committed to next year's race, which is very good news. I bet Porsche can't believe their luck but it would be good to see a straight fight.

    I wonder how the Rebellion team feel after dropping LMP1 for LMP2? They still led for a long time, and finished second overall and first in class (I think their car that finished fourth overall and second in class has been disqualified), which is an amazing achievement, but it's just bad luck that with a pair of LMP1 non-hybrid cars this year had one stayed even relatively reliable it could have won.

    Not to take anything away from Porsche - Le Mans is a war of attrition. Now we just need to see the ACO adopt GT3 (look at the Bathurst 12 hours) as the junior GT category, turn GT AM into GT2 and make the GT Pro into GT1 with much more speed. The LMP2 cars were much faster and more impressive this year but they all look the same and run the same engines. All coupes too, no spiders at Le Mans as of 2016.

    There has to be a way of attracting companies like Peugeot, who have said they would like to come back but the costs are too prohibitive. Maybe split LMP1 into hybrid and a second, slower class much like LMP2 but for manufacturers (LMP2 is privateers only), with the stipulation they must offer customer cars (a Japanese privateer Audi R8 won in 2004).

    It was a bloody brilliant race this year, just a shame it was so hot!
    excellent post

    A bit disappointed the Porsche RSR's didn't do better - I shall not be buying one of them

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  16. #16
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Posts
    24,924
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana View Post
    I'm presuming the other cars on the track were somebody's grandparents out for a Sunday afternoon drive.

    One was a Porsche RSR and another was a Fezza 488.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  17. #17
    Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Bucks, UK
    Posts
    1,034
    The WEC 6 HR race at Silverstone each year is fantastic value and the racing is far more exciting to watch than F1... given the different categories of cars.

    It only costs about £35 for the main race on the sunday and it is not hugely busy either, which on one hand is a shame as it deserves more interest, but on the other hand, no queues, parking is easy and it is a cheap day out :)

    All good.

  18. #18
    Craftsman Go Big's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Lancashire
    Posts
    918
    Quote Originally Posted by I a n View Post
    TT Is a different league to just about all motor sport events.. I'm no expert .. but I would really like to know a race with more commitment...
    This is a great view of a lap of the TT, and after watching many times, I agree about the commitment.

  19. #19
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    803
    Blog Entries
    1
    The Le Mans lap is definitely very impressive; absolutely inch-perfect and requiring top skills, stamina and reflexes.

    However in my opinion the TT lap is on another level altogether - requiring all the above plus unbelievable bravery bordering on lunacy. I am a very experienced motorcyclist (passed my test in 1983) and have owned all the top sportsbikes over the years (still have a couple) and I just can't come close to comprehending the level these guys are at. At those speeds in that environment one cannot relax one's focus for a millisecond over a thirty-seven mile lap in the full knowledge that the slightest error could easily result in death. There's hardly any run-off anywhere and imagine trying to commit thirty-seven miles of turns and twists to memory.

    Average speed around the course by the top guys is over 130mph. Think about that!

  20. #20
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    14,535
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    A bit disappointed the Porsche RSR's didn't do better - I shall not be buying one of them
    You and the rest of the world!

    M

  21. #21
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Die Fuchsröhre
    Posts
    14,927
    The factory RSRs sounded fantastic, plus during the safety car periods in the couple of hours after midnight (caused by Toyotas, plus a Ford GT going off at Indianapolis and scattering gravel everywhere, which took a bunch of marshals with brooms and a strange rack thing towed by a pickup quite a long time to clear) the number 91 RSR was giving us the only entertainment by keeping their tyres warm drifting through Indianapolis and Arnage.

    I'm still a big fan of the Corvettes at Le Mans, their first class win was in 1960 and while Porsche and the 911 are synonymous with the GT classes at Le Mans, the Corvettes have been there all along too. This is one of my favourites:

    https://www.motor1.com/news/98578/co...-mans-feature/

    I have a film at home I may upload if I remember, of the LMP2 cars braking (briefly) and on the overrun (briefly) going into Tertre Rouge not long after the start of the race. They all use the same Gibson engine and sound exactly the same, all very dull. The Toyotas and Porsches were a lot quieter this year, not as silent (bar tyre and ripping air noises) as the R18s but nowhere near as loud as they were last year and before. The only aural enjoyment came from the GT classes, with the exception of the turbocharged 488 and ridiculous sounding Ford GTs. I wasn't a huge fan of the whining, screaming 458s, especially as there were so many of them, but they were all gone this year and the 488 just sounds of nothing. The Fords sounded kind of ok under power but on the overrun they sounded awful. The 911s, Corvettes and Astons sounded great though. The noise from the two mid-engine factory RSRs will stay with me (and probably everyone else there) for a very long time!

    As an aside, if Chevrolet really are making the next Corvette mid-engine (http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...py-photos-news), it's going to be very interesting at Le Mans in two or three years time if the Ford GT and 911 RSR are still there, and supplying customer cars (as has been promised). My point in an earlier post about chopping around the GT classes might soon be more relevant.
    "A man of little significance"

  22. #22
    Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Petersfield, Hampshire
    Posts
    6,310
    I've often wondered what Le Mans shorn of the prototypes would be like. Almost back to the early fifties though really the Ferraris, Maseratis, Jags and Astons of that time were really prototypes though Jag had a crack at making a decent number of D-Types (my millionaire car).

  23. #23
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Die Fuchsröhre
    Posts
    14,927
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy67 View Post
    I've often wondered what Le Mans shorn of the prototypes would be like. Almost back to the early fifties though really the Ferraris, Maseratis, Jags and Astons of that time were really prototypes though Jag had a crack at making a decent number of D-Types (my millionaire car).
    The closest we had in recent memory was 1995, when Group C was gone, manufacturers were missing from the top prototype and GT classes and it rained consistently through the race, allowing the McLaren F1s to dominate. Having said that, the Courage (with Porsche 935 engine) came second and only failed to win because Mario Andretti had an accident and it fell too far back. There was a feeling at the time that he wasn't quite up to it but you have to admire him for trying (having won everything else) and they ended the race only one lap down. That year the prototypes lined up on one side of the grid and the GTs on the other. The McLarens were privateer cars too, albeit built by McLaren (Nick Mason's F1 GTR was the test car that never raced). Funnily enough Lanzante ran the winning car (with its sexual health clinic sponsorship) and they're just round the corner from you, Jeremy, in Petersfield, along with quite a few F1s and F1 GTRs they maintain for the owners. So not many prototypes in '95, and at least the GT1 cars like the McLaren were given equal billing on the grid.
    By 1996 Porsche had factory 911 GT1s at the race, finishing just behind the Joest prototype, which started life as a Jaguar XJR-14. Funnily enough the Joest won again in 1997 and then that was it really for true privateer teams in what shouldn't be considered to be ex-factory cars winning the race. Sure, Team Goh won it for Audi in an R8 in 2004 but it was a current factory car. Between 1997 and 1999 it looked like the GT1 cars were really starting to flourish, but they strayed too close to prototypes (think the second gen 911 GT1, McLarens CLK GTR and the lovely CLR, Toyota GTOne and so on) and were banned. BMW won with a prototype in 1999 and Audi took over from 2000, with GT cars far too slow to be able to compete for overall honours.

    Those years from 1995 to 1999 were great for manufacturer involvement and weird prototype/GT crossovers but after winning in 1998 Porsche withdrew (apart from 911s), BMW left for F1 after 1999, Toyota left after the '99 race for F1 too (albeit after a privateer BMW prototype forced the second place GT One off track in the '99 race while it was hunting down the factory BMW prototype, thus depriving us of a proper race finish and Toyota quite possibly of its first win) and Nissan ran out of money. It would be great to see less segregation of classes and allow privateer teams the chance to win, manufacturers the chance to compete somewhere between hugely expensive hybrids and GT cars that aren't necessarily relevant to their markets (the Peugeot, erm, 308 GT Pro anyone?) and cars we can genuinely recognise able to go fast enough to give us the chance of an occasional surprise win.

    The thing I find a shame is that it's virtually impossible to win Le Mans unless you have an LMP1 car, and even then the technology in these Toyotas, Porsches and of late, Audis, is so advanced and expensive (and probably too confidential) it requires the kind of resources only a manufacturer can afford, even were one of them happy to sell a car or two to customer teams. So we're stuck with prototypes and we're probably stuck with whoever fancies doing what Audi did for years: pumping in a HUGE amount of money, buying all the advertising hoardings (I bet the ACO loved that) along with huge hospitality buildings, car parking etc (I bet the ACO loved that too) and just sitting there waiting for someone else to come and play. I can't blame Audi (in fact I loved the R8s, R10s and especially the silent R18s) but the ACO did deprive us of a lot of races where they could have tried to encourage in more manufacturers, or make it easier for privateers to race.

    I'm just thinking again of the mid-engine Corvettes, 911 RSRs and Ford GTs going as fast as the LMP2 prototypes, that would look fantastic. Plus where will Joest be next year?
    "A man of little significance"

  24. #24
    Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    North of nowhere
    Posts
    7,334
    Woh! There's a man who knows his car, game and track. Superb lap.

  25. #25
    Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    South east
    Posts
    4,501
    I had a fantastic few days down at Le Mans this year. The cheers when the lap was broken were only beaten by the cheers when the car was out of the race.

    The driving on that lap is astounding, and as has been muted above, it's shocking to see numerous "proper" cars being left standing by the Le Mans Prototypes!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Do Not Sell My Personal Information