Ok right off the bat - I do WANT to. It's always on the shortlist I'm saving towards. Thing is there is ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS some other damn shiny thing that eats into my pot just before I get enough funds together. This time I got to touching distance....£700 short then pulled the trigger on this
Back to saving I guess. I feel a cull coming on.
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It is lovely. Their are two watches that I put in almost the same category as Sub in terms of quality, visual appeal and feel on the wrist- Omega SMPc and Otis Aquis 43 mm diver.
And, they do more or less stand up to the Sub. Until you pull out the crown to set time. There is nothing in this hobby that is more reassuring than the crown action on any Rolex. Not even on more prestigious or more costly brands.
I rate the Omega highly. If it was an only watch then, I'd go for the Sub - but otherwise it's not such an issue. Can you not just get one on 0%?
Last edited by Omegamanic; 14th June 2017 at 23:26.
It's just a matter of time...
If it itches it needs scratching. It's the journey that matters, not the destination.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Im sure you will one day!
In the meantime................that Omega looks lovely.
I want a sub..............I suppose........I could get one now.(preferably on interest free!).....
But I think I will probably wait until I retire ("hopefully"! in 3 years time!)..then I may well "treat" myself
Damn. I wish you hadn't said that!!!Originally Posted by Omegamanic
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I just sold my Oris aquis. Beautiful watch and it had amazing crown actually. Best crown I e ever tried by a country mile was the Damasko. It's so well engineered it's not even funny. It's the crown equivalent of a Bentley door closing. Sold that too mind
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Nicest date window on any watch I can think of. Don't know exactly why I like it so much–the date font, the shape of the window, the border–maybe it's just more than the sum of its parts.
I bought an SMP (black) recently....really nice & comfortable on the wrist but couldn't get to love it enough to keep it. I ended up taking it back to the store and have ordered an Tudor Pelagos LHD which I have to go on the waiting list for due to short supply :(
Always wanted a Sub but find it hard to save 5k plus...maybe one day :)
Photo of the Omega on my wrist below...
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Last edited by 2BNOT2B; 15th June 2017 at 07:13.
I personally find the SMPc better looking than the new Subs, the fat Lugs make the Sub look almost square to me and i also dislike the amount of taper on the Bracelet!
I'm after a Sub too
After initially wanting an SMPc and thinking it will be good enough for me, I'd still be wanting a Sub.
Just in my head I know I wouldn't /couldn't affford anything much more and it'd be the ultimate piece.
Only issue is finding a new one from ADs. Prices seem to close to pre owned to do would be worth the wait and also I don't wanna worry about decent fakes to go second hand etc.
Bought enough watches now to know I still want others and ultimately only a Sub will do for me know
My sub is the only watch in my collection I have never thought of selling, and never will.
SMPc for me too which I love, but the Sub keeps popping up in my thoughts, but whether I could even justify it if I had the money is another thing.
First of all you need to find a mooring.
It was the first serious watch that I was given and it is my go to watch almost every day. 8 year old now and just off for its first service. Not sure what will replace it if the Skydweller doesn't materialise soon.
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Interesting observation as i would make the same claim about the Tudor Black Bay in house movement, but then I don't own a Rolex. How does the Tudor compare to the Rolex?
Agreed, they are good, but I would have to give the nod to the BP FF - that is about the best crown that I have come across. Big, solid, reassuring clicks and virtually no risk of cross threads.
Tudor have the same reassuring crown action and I consider that its biggest strength.
As to Ken's point above GP and Blancpain are close second position owners.
I was saving for a sub too..but gave up part way and bought the Pelagos in house in black, oh well back to saving again lol
Buy one as soon as you can, I'm on my 4th SDc and they go up by 1K everytime I dither.
Both great watches but the sub is the winner for me. I've had mine nearly 7 years now and can't see it going anywhere anytime soon. The SMP has moved on to a new home...
Haha! I know that feeling matey. All the best....
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I too was saving for a Sub when I went off at a tangent and bought a Day-Date. At least it's got the same reassuring crown action. The best way I can describe it is the feeling of a mechanism at the perfect point between slack and tight i.e. there's no free play, but also no tightness.
Last edited by Caruso; 15th June 2017 at 10:24.
Maybe it's a phase we all have to go through ...owning a Sub. For me, in the end, the modern , ceramic, versions have lost the plot. The older versions are the real classics. And will probably hold value best too. A delight to wear. Worth saving up for.
Just to be clear, the SMP wasn't an alternative to the sub in my eyes. It was just the sexy thing that drew my eye and made me spend my money before I had enough for the sub. Same thing happened before that with the Tudor heritage chrono, and the planet ocean 8500. I've ended up with a nice collection I think but I think my only answer is to stop damn well looking at other watches while I'm saving. I'm just too damn weak willed
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I think when you have the Sub, or any Rolex for that matter, the SMPc will be abandoned. At least that's what happened with mine.
I think it is inexplicably strange how a Sub came to be the only watch I wore out of a collection of 25 or so including many 'posher' and more expensive timepieces.
I am the odd one out here on that I owned a 16610lv some years ago but never really bonded with it. I wore my DSSD mostly, so moved the sub on. That being said I am tempted to try again with one of the ceramic bezel models.
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I have both Rolex subs and Omega and they are both cracking watches. Ok if I had to have only one I'd get a sub - but I probably wear my Omega more - the 2254 model
Having just sold a Tudor BB MT5602 to finance a Sub 114060 I have to say the Tudor is on par with the engineering of the Sub. The winding feel, the way the crown screws in and out, the sound and feel of the bezel when twisted......I 'd have another in a heartbeat.
I certainly wouldn't say there was a £3k RRP notable difference....other than brand.
I did it the other way round.....my first mechanical watch was a Sub Date 16610....then I joined TZ and the rest is history....Panerai, Omega, IWC, Rolex, IWC, Omega......you get my drift? My "keeper" watch has now changed to my "current" watch.
As has been said the journey is as fun as the destination....as long as the destination changes regularly :)
The watch doesn't exist that could be my "one" watch. I enjoy diversity too much.
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In the fullness of time you may turn out to be correct. Time will tell (if I ever get a sub ofc).
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SMP is a nice watch in its own right
Grass is always greener
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Agree 100%!
I`ve owned a couple of Subs, but moved them both on for different reasons. Wish I`d kept one purely because of the price increases......hindsight's a wonderful thing.
I own a couple of older SMPs, and I prefer them to the Sub. The latest ceramic Subs are a backward step to me, the chunky case and clunky crownguard ruin the watch IMO.
My advice to the OP is to be absolutely certain he really wants a sub! It's easy to get drawn into wanting one (iconic, classic, Rolex......) but like all 'grails' they can be somewhat underwhelming when you actually get one. I`m a collector at heart, I`m happy owning a fair number of watches, and I sometimes regret not having a Sub in the collection....but I`d regret not having the SMPs more. I foolishly let a near mint 2254.50 go when I bought my first sub several years ago and that's something I now regret.
Swapping and changing from one watch to another on a quest for 'the one' is a flawed strategy IMO; play the long game and end up0 owning a few that you really like even if it takes a few years to get there. The 'seekers' who swap from one to another are rarely satisfied, the fact that they're brains are wired to always seek something fresh means they'll never be satisfied. They end up spending more in the long run than the canny collector because they usually lose money on each deal.
A blue SMP and a non-date Sub would make a nice pair IMO, but the black SMP is significantly different enough from the Sub to justify owning both.
That sounds like a good strategy to me.
Paul
I have thought about saving up for a Submariner, they do have mystical aura about them for WIS, though sadly they also can have a negative aura too among the general public. They also are kind of boring in a predictable 'everyone who makes a bit of money buys one' kind of way, you go anywhere moderately wealthy and the amount of Submariners you see makes them a little cliche. However for me it's the prices they start at that puts me off the most, the Sub date list price is £6,250 which is a decent chunk of change for a wristwatch. There is always the argument that they appreciate in value but you have to actually sell it to realise that appreciation and if you just keep it it's a decent amount of money to have tied up in one watch.
I also know I would feel uncomfortable wearing such an expensive item day to day and would worry about losing/damaging/it been stolen too much. Of course these are mostly subjective worries and millions of people happily wear Rolexes every day all day for decades with no issue! There is one last and significant concern, that is my wife would probably kill me in a very slow and painful way if I ever spent that much money on one watch!
The only way I could see myself owning one would be in four or five years selling all my watches adding a cash top and consolidating it into the Submariner, but only having one watch would be rather boring! So I am happy to have a very humble but varied watch collection instead of one very expensive watch (obviously disposable income varies from person to person, if I was significantly more wealthy I would undoubtedly have a few Rolex in my collection!)
The brutal truth is the price!
They've become v. expensive for what they are. Back in the days when they were £2.5-£3K watches I`d no problems with wearing one regularly; nowadays I`m not so sure I want £6K+ strapped to my wrist. There's also the 'message' they give out thesedays; Rolex have always been expensive watches but they've now gone to a level where the 'opulence' factor is too great in my opinion. Others may disagree, and some may actually enjoy the conferred status of the current prices, personally I find it embarrassing and I now think twice before wearing any Rolex in situations that wouldn't have bothered me before. It isn`t the theft/mugging issue that concerns me, it's more about the message it gives and whether I`m happy for that message to be given out in that social situation. It's all about the 'haves and have-nots' scenario, the same argument can be applied to expensive cars to some extent, but for me there's more of an issue than in the past.
On a lighter note, I ended up having to visit a private dentist several years back (broken filling, pain, NHS local dentist had struck me off.......) and I knew it would cost money. At the time I had a nearly new 14060 which I normally would've worn. Did I wear it?....no! Put the old Seiko beater on instead and tried my damndest to look poor........not sure it had any effect on the cost of treatment but I thought it seemed wise at the time.
Paul
I AGREE I paid £1,870 back in sept 1995 for my 16610 WISHED ID KEPT IT as £4k+ is TOO much.
Well the SMP arrived
Seems in good condition. First impressions are pretty good. The case wears amazingly slim, the aesthetics of the bezel shape with the good old SMPbracelet all good. The thing that really grabs you though is the colour- it's the deepest of kind of midnight blues. With the black date wheel it looks just perfect. Yes it's fair to say I like how it looks. It's stunning. Onto functionality- well first impressions a little bit soso tbh. Bezel action feels a bit tinny (dare I say cheap?), perhaps I'm spoiled with the Pelagos, but then the Pelagos has the best bezel action of any watch I've held. The crown action is good but it's really hard to grip it - it's so small! No micro adjust on the bracelet (thought that peeve was a one off with my Pl Ocean but nope....Omega got me with it again). Ffs Omega just put micro on as standard - pfft. Overall I still will be looking for a sub to add long term, but this SMP doesn't have catch and release feel about it. I think I'll enjoy it a lot.
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People need to get over the price.
Most of those are that have an issue are driving cars worth 10's of thousands - the price is the price, it isn't going down any time soon. I heard similar rants when I bought my first house, about how stupidly expensive property was and blah blah blah - I wish I'd have bought 10 properties at that time and benefitted from the rentals and price increases, I'd have a much more comfortable existence if I had!
You will not go far Wong with a Sub purchase - it will more than likely be worth more than you paid for it at some stage. There are very few items, especially frivolous luxury items you can say that about.
It's just a matter of time...
Funny thread this because I became ambivalent about my 14060 Sub not that long after getting it and am now somewhat enamoured with the idea on an SMPc!
You have to own a Sub though to know. Some love them long time and bond deeply but not all WIS do. As I said, I grew bored of mine in a matter of months but then I was buying too many pieces too frequently at the time for anything to take a hold really. There are a few pieces from that time I think are keepers but not that Sub unfortunately. Don't get me wrong they are great watches but in a large collection my lovely 2-liner just gets a bit lost and doesn't jump out and say 'wear me' in the mornings. It's been a few years now and nothing has changed. Maybe if I tried some different Sub varieties another time it would change but who knows? All I know is that if a cull comes, it's on the list to move along.
I also note the sentiment above about Rolex being a rather too visible indication of wealth in the UK and in these time of haves and have nots, there are quite a few Rolex fanciers selling up and I have sympathy for that logic. I'll return to the UK after a long period abroad this summer and am considering letting all my Rolex go because I just can't be doing with any negative attention with watches.
There is also the issue of pricing on Subs if bought new. As said, 6K is an awful lot of wedge to flaunt on the wrist and that may or may not be for everyone. I seem to have topped out at 3-4K per piece as the upper end of my comfort zone, even though with lots of pieces it begins to add up to quite a lot more than that! I guess it's about where you place yourself in the wealth spectrum. For me, 6K buys a nice used car and putting residual to one side the objective value of car vs watch when compared is more in favour of a substantial piece of engineering (car) than something thats physically much smaller, has less materials value and uses much less complex 1930's technology!
YMMV so best to get one owned ASAP and either fall in love, or get it out of your system.
Who has the wrong date - me or you?
Great looking watch though!
Well let me know if yours feels like moving on.Funny thread this because I became ambivalent about my 14060 Sub not that long after getting it and am now somewhat enamoured with the idea on an SMPc!
You have to own a Sub though to know. Some love them long time and bond deeply but not all WIS do. As I said, I grew bored of mine in a matter of months but then I was buying too many pieces too frequently at the time for anything to take a hold really. There are a few pieces from that time I think are keepers but not that Sub unfortunately. Don't get me wrong they are great watches but in a large collection my lovely 2-liner just gets a bit lost and doesn't jump out and say 'wear me' in the mornings. It's been a few years now and nothing has changed. Maybe if I tried some different Sub varieties another time it would change but who knows? All I know is that if a cull comes, it's on the list to move along.
I also note the sentiment above about Rolex being a rather too visible indication of wealth in the UK and in these time of haves and have nots, there are quite a few Rolex fanciers selling up and I have sympathy for that logic. I'll return to the UK after a long period abroad this summer and am considering letting all my Rolex go because I just can't be doing with any negative attention with watches.
There is also the issue of pricing on Subs if bought new. As said, 6K is an awful lot of wedge to flaunt on the wrist and that may or may not be for everyone. I seem to have topped out at 3-4K per piece as the upper end of my comfort zone, even though with lots of pieces it begins to add up to quite a lot more than that! I guess it's about where you place yourself in the wealth spectrum. For me, 6K buys a nice used car and putting residual to one side the objective value of car vs watch when compared is more in favour of a substantial piece of engineering (car) than something thats physically much smaller, has less materials value and uses much less complex 1930's technology!
YMMV so best to get one owned ASAP and either fall in love, or get it out of your system.
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lol it's as it arrived. Think seller set the time as AM not PM and at noon date popped forward. Good spot!. Much as the bracelet is certainly iconic, I think this one may come even more alive on variety of leathers. If anyone else out there has a ceramic bluesy feel free to post your favourite shots on leather 🤠
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SMPc is a great watch, I don't get the Sub thing really. I think the SMPc is a better watch to wear. it's better built than the old subs and looks better than the new ones.
it's quite thin, it looks great on the oem rubber and that glass is see through, I can never read the time on a Rolex they just refect light, a shit design imo.
The SMPc one cannot even tell there is any glass on the watch, the date window wins hands down and the lume just works.
Is a Sub worth double the price. well it can be worth triple but the Omega is just as good if not a better all round watch.
I do own a older Sub btw and the BLNR but I only wear my black faced SMPc on rubber these days.
New Rolex's are Meh the new Sub case is not a nice design , the Seaweallers are way too thick, I cannot see why people want either really lol
I was 2nd in the new Seadweller list did not even bother with it, overs or not I could not be arsed wit ha 43mm SD with a cylops !!!
In hindsight I could have flipped it, but I could not even be arsed with the hassle and maybe some one telling me they took the stickers off lol
ALso this steel they use on Rolex seem to pit or pinhole. So not even impressed with this magic steel they go on about either, no wonder most are polished 2nd hand !!!
I have have my 1st SMP for 22 years and wore it 100% of the time . never polished and the steel looks fine ! Then I joined here , bought a load of tat from SC sold all the tat back to SC, and finished up with a SMPC although I still have my white face 1st one, some Rolex's and a ltd ed Monaco.
I even think the new Daytona looks a bit Chav in white with black ceramic :-( In fact no new Rolex really excites me at all bar a crazy priced white gold Daytona which I would never buy as I don't like the weight.
And I forgot to say my SMPc holds better time than anything else I own inc the 2 Rolex !
Last edited by Mrdemon; 15th June 2017 at 15:55.
Have to question this! Have you actually seen this phenomena on a watch that's never been refinished or worked on?
If you look at case sides on some watches that have ben refinished/repolished, you may see what appears to be tiny pits or 'pinholes'.
There's a good reason for this and it isn`t obvious: When a deep scratch is being removed by whatever abrasive/polishing method, it eventually 'shrinks' from being a deep scratch to a less deep SHORTER scratch. This is because scratches are not a uniform depth, they usually taper from deep to less deep. As the diligent refinisher continues working, taking the minimum amount of metal away, the scratch eventually ends up as a pit or pinhole that represents the deepest point. At this stage a decision has to be made; do you continue to take metal out in order to completely eradicate the mark, or do you stop work because the amount of extra metal removed isn`t justified to remove a very minor blemish?
I`ve seen plenty of watches with what appear to be tiny pinpricks down the sides on an otherwise bright and shiny case. When I look carefully I can tell the watch has been refinished; it's usually an indication that there's been some fairly deep scratches removed rather than the odd hairline/swirly! I`ve refinished watches myself with such problems, it just doesn`t make sense to take significantly more metal off to get rid of one 'pinprick'. Working on the specific area is a no-no, it'll produce the most awful ripple effect.....if a case side is flat you have to take metal off the whole lot or it'll not look good. Usually there's some curvature and that provides some latitude, but sometimes it works against you....been there, done that!
Rolex use 904 Stainless steel which is marginally higher grade than the 316 everyone else uses. I believe it polishes to a very slightly better lustre, but the difference is marginal. Under normal use neither grade will experience corrosion or pitting with the exception of the caseback; for reasons I don`t fully understand some older watches will show pitting on the caseback where the watch contacts skin. This is attributed to the composition of sweat from the wearer; once a microscopic pit develops it'll continue to develop and it isn`t a uniform effect. The other issue is crevice corrosion, which occurs over a very long time where dirt and moisture are present in a crack or confined area....I`m talking about watches that are 40+ years old here, it won`t affect a modern Rolex, Omega or whatever.
Next time someone inspects a second-hand Sub, have a look at the polished case sides between the crown and the end of the lugs. Using a moderately strong magnifier look for pinholes or 'tramlines' in the shine........sure signs that it's had some deep refinishing at some point. It may look OK to the naked eye at a glance, presenting as a nice shiny finish.....but the magnifier test will reveal a little more in most cases!
Paul
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 15th June 2017 at 16:30.
It has become an industry- finding novel,imaginary and silly reasons to run down Rolex:-)
It's all subjective though to the individual wearer.
Today I have been wearing my 14060m Sub and have no desire to buy a modern-day Omega. I do though have some vintage, 1960s Omega which are lovely.
Last edited by gc52; 15th June 2017 at 17:27.
Please note, if anyone wants to send me both a Rolex and Omega for corrosion testing we can do things like linear polarisation resistance (LPR), electrical impedance spectroscopy (EIS) and electrochemical noise analysis (ENA) to study, in some detail, the pitting mechanisms in the steels used. This will settle the debate. I will not be subjecting my watches to any of the aforementioned tests I might add !
Ok.......but am I right when I say I think 904 polishes to a slightly better/deeper (bluer?) shine than 316?.....or is it my imagination! The hardness is virtually identical, so both should be similar to polish.
Interesting that Rolex started using 904 SS when everyone else has stuck with 316. Always struck me as odd, unless there really is an advantage somewhere?
As for corrosion testing, how do you simulate crevice corrosion without waiting a few years for the result? If my memory serves me right I once tried simulating this in the deep and distant past with no success!
Paul
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 15th June 2017 at 17:52.
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