Reply With QuoteMan, I remember them all the way from the mid-'90s. That's properly gorgeous, and it looks like a crème de la crème build, too! Beautiful photos as well; did you take those yourself? :)Originally Posted by Meesterbond
Yes, there's no way to duplicate the craftsmanship and appeal of a high-grade steel frame by making it out of baked plastic carbon.
I'm not a fan of electronic shifters, but I suppose they're a neat toy as long as you're cool with having more batteries to deal with. Personally, I find that all-mechanical performs more than adequately for me, and I'm not willing to sacrifice its tactile feel, reliability and adjustability to gain a few milliseconds on a shift.
Regarding saddles, while Brooks ain't quite what it used to be, they should still be superior in comfort to a foam-covered plastic plank once they're properly broken in. Leather saddles do take a significant amount of time to conform properly, but they're great once they do. There's a reason that touring riders typically favour them.
Gilles Berthoud makes what I feel is the best one on the market; here's my road version when it was new:
Despite the best efforts of the industry to convince folks to bin everything each season like some fashion item, I consider the bicycle to be a fully mature technology at this point. I'd say that the efforts often seem to counterproductive, as they're often directed toward making things less durable and forcing obsolescence by coming out with stupid new "standards" for that are pretty far from actually being standard.
Personally, I wouldn't get too carried away with the equipment-geek side of things; as long as the bike feels nice to ride and looks half-decent, then you're a lot more likely to keep using it once the novelty of having the latest component trend wears off. I just back from spending three hours on the one pictured above; I've had it for six years, and it's still just as much of a pleasure to ride as when it was new. (In fact, more so now that the saddle is broken in.)
Man, I remember them all the way from the mid-'90s. That's properly gorgeous, and it looks like a crème de la crème build, too! Beautiful photos as well; did you take those yourself? :)
It was a fairly sensible build rather than all out (Ultegra, Hed Belgium rims etc) although Chris King shiny bits seemed right, and they were just the right shade of blue.
Not my photos... the guy who runs Bespoke Bikes whilst loving his bikes is also pretty keen with an SLR too. Indy Fab are still using the photos on their own website.
Actually, I've just checked over my Parlee after a bit of a stack last weekend and there's a massive crack in one of the seat stays - think it's probably toast...
I'm a fan of titanium. Got mine custom built from Justin Burls. Pricing is reasonable if you don't get carried away with components. Mine weighs around 7kgs and is incredibly strong, comfortable and silent to ride. It still looks like new after well over 5,000 miles and a few spills.
I get your reasoning completely; did not buy the 1900 replica for nothing ;-)
The point with carbon as a material is that it does not ´age´. It does not know stress wear. The ´lower´ spec fibers used in bike frames have some flexibilty even.
The fabrication process has developed very much over the years and the production is quite sorted now.
The corrosion issues (of anything aluminium in contact with the fibres) is now understood and effectively dealt with.
A modern carbon frame should last longer than an aluminium one.
As to the shifter I am not looking for quicker shifting; it replaces maintenance, cable stretch et all with battery charging; 90 minutes every say four months. The technology itself brings us into the realm of quartz versus mechanical. I have some of the first quartzes still performing at way beyond the mechanical realm.
Based on this I think the Ultegra Di2 will be functional for longer than I myself will.
With the exception of the carbon wheels, I think a modern bike will outlast me. So, aluminium rins and rim brakes :-)
The saddle. You are probaly right. I am not willing to suffer the breaking in period of several months.
Also, Giles Berthoud states; If you have no mudguard,
do not choice a leather saddle, the projections of mud and water coming from the rear wheel will make great damages on it.
Not such an issue with 300 days of sun/year but then that sun is.
Always been a fan of giant bikes
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Any thought on/ experience with GT bikes?
A multiple WC winning off road bike company turning to build fast road bikes that can also race on gravel rather gets my attention.
I have meanwhile spoken sternly to my (pre)conception on straight spokes. That makes disc brakes a possibility. Those after all are simply way better. The modulation simply is not in the same universe.
I have raced motorcycle with 4LS drum brakes and it is not about max. stopping power but the difference in control is beyond comparison. Still don´t like the look on a road ´race´ bicycle but I will get over that.
As to the spokes it remains that they will be asked to transfer an extra load but in the 24 twice crossed spoke wheels GT uses I can put my trust. That is a steeper angle to cope with the torsion, sufficently many for strenth/stiffness.
GT's fine, I guess. Like most mass-market bikes, they'll be made in one of the big Taiwanese factories that does contract manufacturing for the likes of Giant, Specialized, Trek, and pretty much every other big brand.
Nothing wrong with that, but they're nothing too special, either. Plenty of choice among light, efficient drop-bar bikes that can handle off-tarmac riding these days, though.
This is a work of art & I'd have to hang it on the wall. I like the look of some of the other bikes on show in this thread too, but I wouldn't want one for my regular steed because they would be far too slow. Recently I had to ride my trusty Colnago C50 for a few weeks. It was around 3mph slower than my Canyon Aeroad for the same effort. That may not sound much, but it's the difference between me & Bradley Wiggins.In case you were thinking of something more 'do-it-all'... I had this built a year or two back as a CX / winter / touring bike. Steel again, hydro discs, mudguard and rack eyes (for forks had to go to Parlee to get the bosses bonded on, then back to Indy Fab for painting)... Turned out alright I think...
Not stronger though, and not suitable to disk braked wheels. I defer to the late great Sheldon Brown on this.The more spokes the stronger the wheel. Ditto spoke pattern. The straighter the stiffer.
I found for me Rim brakes were better for downhill MTB when was doing discs they used to overheat a lot - but rim brakes are useless in the rain/grit/mud for me and daily commute.
I changed to a metalic pad and larger rotors and careful breaking downhill now is not the overheating issue it was. Plus less braking distance needed for commute traffic. Never had spoke anxiety nor issues nor noticed how many spokes I have or what pattern they are (until now reading the above)
Last edited by Xantiagib; 12th June 2017 at 10:21.
This is a work of art & I'd have to hang it on the wall. I like the look of some of the other bikes on show in this thread too, but I wouldn't want one for my regular steed because they would be far too slow. Recently I had to ride my trusty Colnago C50 for a few weeks. It was around 3mph slower than my Canyon Aeroad for the same effort. That may not sound much, but it's the difference between me & Bradley Wiggins.
This one (the Indy Fab) is noticeably slower than my Parlee but it weighs quite a bit more, particularly with 28mm tyres, guards, hydro discs etc etc, however with the Pegoretti vs Parlee the difference is negligible. Admittedly not particularly scientific but I'll go round the same loop on each in very similar times. There's probably a kg between them in weight and a few aero concessions but real world on solo rides there's not a lot in it.
Stronger in the direction of load too.
Not suitable for discs is obvious.
You will see that manufacturers use crossed spokes for discs.
The big thing they seem to have been muddled about is using inner tube tires on rim braked carbon wheels. That is a big NoNo. It follows from using ´black aluminum´ rim designs; replicating an alumium design in carbon.
Apart from having superior modualtion, disc offer way more constant brake response under a wide range of varying conditions.,
Only in the dry rims have just as much stopping power and because (on an alumium rim) the heat dissipating mass and surface is larger, they overheat less. One issue remains; hot rims give hotter tires = more tire pressure. The alumimium rim can cope with that but you still ride with higher tire pressure.
I am getting a more and more clear picture.
Looks like I will be best off with a ´gravel bike´ with sturdy alumium wheels and a bit wider tarmac rubber.
I would love a carbon frame but rather alumium and a better group but rather carbon than Di.
Disc brake... well, I should. It is better. Even though I only ride on the 300 sunny days per year.
I think that used to be the case, but modern carbon clinchers from a decent brand dissipate heat perfectly well. I'm by the no means the best descender in the world but happily used Zipp 303s for the Alps and Pyrenees without any drama. Use the prescribed pads and descend properly and it's fine.
They are using A-profile now, with the brakes pressing, running on the cross bar area of the rim. Much better but still only a work around which makes the rims heavier than otherwise necessary.
Dude, you're overthinking this.
The rim vs. disc brake thing is no big deal, other than as a distraction to convince folks that they need to buy a new bike. For Spanish riding conditions, wimpy little road discs just ain't gonna matter — you're essentially paying extra for a somewhat heavier bike with somewhat weaker wheels.
The component group is about the least important element. They all work great; there's no noticeable difference while riding with Dura Ace compared to Ultegra or 105, for example. The top-of-the-range stuff is just bike jewellery for dentists.
Wheels and contact points are important, though. Discs or not, three-cross hand-built wheels with quality double-butted spokes are still the gold standard. Tyres make a difference. A good saddle that fits is crucial, as are shoes. And frame fit matters a lot.
But the gizmos are mainly for marketing, which is something which I thought you, of all people, would be able to look past. ;)
My daughter swears by her steel frame bike, doesn't do a lot of mountain biking but it has served her well.
Undoubted, yes.
Very valid point. 300 sunny days/year.The rim vs. disc brake thing is no big deal, other than as a distraction to convince folks that they need to buy a new bike. For Spanish riding conditions, wimpy little road discs just ain't gonna matter — you're essentially paying extra for a somewhat heavier bike with somewhat weaker wheels.
Would consider 105 good enough and Ultegra the top of my pole.The component group is about the least important element. They all work great; there's no noticeable difference while riding with Dura Ace compared to Ultegra or 105, for example. The top-of-the-range stuff is just bike jewellery for dentists.
As with motorcycles and cars. The bottom line it literally the contact point.Wheels and contact points are important, though. ....Tyres make a difference.
The strength of the wheels is no joke for me here. I really NEED gravel bike strength wheels. Whatever the brake system.
About tires I have some questions I am trying to answer. I have seen several cyclocross bikes with tubeless rubber on the rims. Looking into that.
I think that my process is separating the two.But the gizmos are mainly for marketing, which is something which I thought you, of all people, would be able to look past. ;)
Bought it
A 2017 Giant Defy Adv.2.
All carbon, triple x-ed 28 spoke wheels, Shimano 105, hydraulic dsic brakes.
My size overlaps two bike sizes and opted for the larger one, which is a bit longer wheel base. This frame design has a bit of flex for endurance comfort which for me works out fine on the rough bits.
John Degenkolb won the 2015 Paris Roubaix aboard a Defy.
As was observed here, the tires are paramount and it gets ´converted´ to good quality 28 wide tubeless wubbah.
Have chosen Shimano M540 MTB pedals and hard rubber covers.
Btw Menno, there is a FAT Dutch component in Giant bikes. A Koga aspect:
1. The son of Batavus owner left his job at Batavus to start his own brand of (at the beginning) racing bikes; Koga. He struck a deal with the Japanse manufacturer Miyata, which was later dropped and thus became Koga again.
2. When Schwinn decided to buy Chines aminalng built kikes instead of Taiwan made ones, their Taiwanse subcontractors went worldwide under a brand name of their own; Giant.
For Europe they wanted an assembly plant and struck a deal with the Koga owner who set up the Giant plant in Heerenveen which is one of the three Giant plants.
3. As UIC road racing is very much a Europena based affair, the Giant factory racing effort is based there and logically from Heerenveen.
Dutchman Tom Dumoulin recently won the Giro on a Giant bike for the Giant factory team.
On the subject of Giant, it is a matter of purist definition whether Giant is considered one of two in house manufacturers or the only one.
Back to functional aspects of bicycles.
- I went for all carbon because the material is hands down best. The crucial argument for me being that is knows no fatigue.
- On the wheels side it was a bit more of a mental excersize because I do not like disk brakes and I do like straight spokes. Two prejudices/preferences yet there again is no discussing the benefits of crossed spoked wheels nor of disk brakes.
Disk brakes are on the road simply way safer so that was not realy a choice and only a matter of finding the right argument to convince myself. That was... carbon. With disk brakes the rims are free from the function of brake surface and thus properly designed carbon rims cab be used.
As to the group set, there was for me no argument to go beyond Shimano 105 11.
Right. A new tech bike is reason to compare my tool set with the bike needs starting with tubeless tires and a different chain quick link. The result being that apart from two Allen keys there is nothing compatible. Best make a different kit for this bike.
Have you thought of buying in a frame like the Surly cross check and building up from there - that's my next one when I finally shift from Aluminium back to steel.
B
In a way.
I still have the just about ultimate steel frame of my trusty 31 y.o. old Koga.
You can read the why not of that and the why yes of the carbon route.
Last edited by Huertecilla; 25th June 2017 at 13:48.
The frame is of triple butted spiral reinforce Reynolds chromoly.
My son has this afternoon decided that the frame will be a cool base for a retro MTB bike. The latest gen. of carbon front forks makes for a great ´rigid´ alternative for a sprung one.
That will be an inch head tube, make sure your fork is not 1-1/8. (You may need a new headset too as that looks like a quill stem)
Yes, quill stem. 26" rims and V-brakes also dictate choice a bit.
There is plenty about though so we will make a neat, light ciclocross out of it.
at least for a Dutchman living in the Andalucian mountains.
My son and I try to do a round together daily and sofar he had a easy time with me on the no brakes/no gear bike.
No so much now.
Two days ago he asked to swith bikes and try mine. He disapperared towards the horizon. I blessed my luck that he stopped and waited for me so we could change back again.
Yesterday he took advantage of me being at the coast and took my bike out for a longer run.
He now wants a modern road bike too. He´d rather forsake on the discs and enjoy the weight advantage. He is looking at a rim braked TCR. Cannot blame him ;-)
Indeed, riding a brakeless fixed-gear bicycle anywhere other than the velodrome for which it's intended is the very definition of the term "suffering for fashion". :)
Definitely.
Still think it is a jewel and a joy to take to the village square and enjoy the looks of it against the scenery with a cup of coffee.
It is however ´suffering´ to ride it back up the mountain to the farm. Worth it though but not for a tour. Realistaclly also downright dangerous as even over here in relatively sparse traffic, proper brakes are simply essential.
Yes, the fixed-gear bit is fine as long as the terrain's reasonably flat. Just put some damn brakes on the thing if that terrain isn't a closed track. :P
Today we did a route which has a nice descend and we nudged 60 km/h. The road then meets up with a provincial road in a bend with an akward ridge over the high side of the cambered road. Very VERY reassuring to have proper brakes.
I would not DREAM of going nearly that fast and still would have started slowing down two hundred yards earlier.
Also, the easy to change wide range of gears means it is easy to get up to speed again, up inclines, whereas with the retro I am keen to keep it on the boil which without proper brakes is a double edged sword.
All in all a very happy camper with this new fangled modern disk braked ´plastic´ thing.
That written, I do get the pov of my son who prefers the weight advantage of rimbrakes. It does make a differnce over here in the steep mountains and rim brakes are very much up to the job as we don´t go out in the wet anyway. And yes they look way better too.
I agree with him. For him.
My bones are rather a bit more fragile than his though and my reaction times are not up to his either so I am happy to have gone for the easier to modulate option.
Oh, I observed that the pedals of my bike were muddy and that the bike was rather dusty. Yes, he took it over a gravel route and because it had rained during the night there was some mud, he had slung it over his shoulders though to keep it dry. The mud was from his shoes obviously.
He still wants a race geometry bike as ´it´s ok´ on the caminos.
Getting to be EXPENSIVE
Picking up my son´s Giant TCR Advance tomorrow.
His mom went with us today. we were just going to drop by for some details and she sprang a surprise on us: ´Do you have one in my size so I can try one of those... (pointing to a racing bike)´.
Apparently she is beyond envious of how much energy we spend cycling and says she would like to join us. Hmmm...
So she sat on one and felt like the saddle was splitting her in two. ´Need to think about that´ she observed and then tried a hybrid. ´Like this much more!´.
Yes, and you will ride solo then. There is no hope in heaven you go with us on that bike.
We will see how that pans out. Whichever way though it is going to cost me.
I thought I´d buy a new bike and that is turning out to be 3 in 1...
Fingers crossed that my other better half does not get the same courage.
Great fun
Some two months of just about every morning out riding together we are getting along well with the bikes.
My son had two tumbles, I one. Nothing serious so valuable explorations of the fine line at little cost.
The discs on mine have developed the cool array of colors like properly heated rvs exhaust headers.
Here some views.
The third bike is indeed a certainty now.
After her desert walking adventure the resident female is going to cycle instead of walking.
We have decided on a 2017 Liv Brava. She is not going to keep up with us on the long trips ever, but she does want to be able to do short, easy routes with us and travel the caminos. Furthermore the Brava´s wubbahs should be less susceptible to flats. Less still with her lighter weight on the tires.
Rather a cute bike that Brava in size XS. Haven´t put it on the scales yet but although alloy framed it feels no heavier than mine.
Oh, on a side note, the thru axles that go with discs are definitely a thing to want. Everything that makes flats even only a little bit less of a hassle is.
Trek Emonda SL 5 really light and great value
Been to the über-well stocked Trek shop in Malaga and decided on the Giant offerings.
Have another Giant one on my list even. For different reasons though. It is the Burrows designed MCR. That is such a special bike, high tech bike art on wheels, that I would lóve to hang one on the wall.
My birthday is coming up and I will no doubt get some bike stuff but no MCR probably ;-)
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