Reply With QuoteI'm disappointed by the defensive naivety and frustrated by the continued handling errors, penalties conceded and failure to convert opportunities, but still a very enjoyable game.
15 points was pretty close, but I forgot to factor in Farrel missing a conversion.
in terms of performance.
England and Ireland good. Why didn't Itoje start FFS!
Wales less good - Davis ok, but Williams - drop.
NZ very good, but demonstrated some weaknesses, plus they are so clever at playing right on the margins of legality. (As always).
Next game should be closer I feel.
Just seen the Scotland result
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I'm disappointed by the defensive naivety and frustrated by the continued handling errors, penalties conceded and failure to convert opportunities, but still a very enjoyable game.
Williams and Davies made the most metres.
Without the two of them (especially Williams) the try wouldn't have been scored.
Though Williams should have taken that ball before the kiwi try.
Kruis and awj didn't do much.
Wouldn't make too many changes
Last edited by acg; 24th June 2017 at 11:07.
Fixed that for you :)Originally Posted by Andyg
I hope not too many changes for the second test - Itoje for AWJ and maybe Sinkler to start ahead of Furlong (Sinkler has been more dynamic around the park. Tactically would like to see O'Mahony more aggressive at the breakdown to support O'Brien and Faletau to carry a bit more.
The Lions this morning? Good game, but...
Lack of on-field leadership, both O'Mahony & Warburton didn't seem to be in command of their team. (Perhaps the opposite & too many trying to lead?)
Poor decision-making, particularly under when the ABs were under pressure from the surprising amount of linebreaks the Lions had.
Anonymous performances from starters (Faletau, Joseph, Vunipola, Furlong, T'eo, Kruis) & subs (apart from Sinkler).
AWJ. Head-knock in the 14th minute (should probably have taken an HIA to, errr, clear his head) & contributed very little until subbed in the 47th minute.
Fitness. The Lions forwards were knackered in the 48th minute.
They were flattered by the final score. 7 points after the hooter put a false gloss on a game that was lost long before that.
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Jim.
Disagree, without Davies and Williams it would have been very formulaic and boring. Difficult ball for Williams to take over his shoulder, much easier for Daly to come onto it. Kruis, Goerge and AWJ weren't good today, I expect to see Best, Maro and Lawes to be there next week15 points was pretty close, but I forgot to factor in Farrel missing a conversion
in terms of performance.
England and Ireland good. Why didn't Itoje start FFS!
Wales less good - Davis ok, but Williams - drop.
NZ very good, but demonstrated some weaknesses, plus they are so clever at playing right on the margins of legality. (As always).
Next game should be closer I feel.
Just seen the Scotland result
I don't like it when games are assessed in a partisan England, Ireland, Wales way, they're all Lions players on this tour.
An enjoyable game, and I think the Lions will have earned some respect, but it had that air of predictability about the result from early on.
Williams started an exceptional move that led to the Lions first try, but ultimately the Lions were forced into too many errors, and were out played in the 'pushing the rules' department. Tricky conditions as well, although I'd have hoped that would suit the Lions more.
I just get the feeling that the ABs have more to come, whereas we look like we'll put up a good fight each time, but ultimately come up short.
+1
Joseph wasn't even in the 23, so no wonder he was anonymous!
Te'o was defensively very good and single handedly stopped SBW on many occasions - the fact that SBW made 0 clean breaks tells you a lot, along with only 2 offloads (the same as Te'o incidentally) - he was also replace on 56 mins. The work Te'o did allowed JD to make 85m and 5 clean breaks.
Faletau made 9 carries, but not many more meters and agree that Furlong could be in danger of losing his place to Sinkler who looked lively, making 10m every time he carried in his cameo. Need both to carry more and do more damage for the second test if they keep their places - Faletau surely will, and Mako could do with bringing his bulk to bear with ball in hand too. Defensively Faletau was top tackler with 21 - so in defence he was anything but anonymous, Kruis made 16 tackles.
Best's tour average for line out conversion is 83% - Jamie George hit his jumper everytime, the only line out lost was when Ken Owens cam on immediately prior to a line-out. Unless George doesn't recover from the knock he took today I'd be amazed if Best replace him.
Itoje I think has to start - need some more dynamic ball carrying from the pack. Lawes would add to that too, but I see Lawes and Itoje too similar, plus Kruis is the line out caller and solid as a rock defensively - so Lawes on the bench for me as an option to cover lock and 6 depending on how the match is going.
Apologies, mixed up my (Jamie) Joseph somehow with Jamie George.
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Jim.
Best is much better in the loose and the scrums where they struggled today, I like George but he's a last 20 impact player for me
He's capt again on Tues so doesn't look like he will feature in the 2nd test
He's more proficient at the breakdown than George certainly, but the line-out was pretty much the only area that the Lions had any kind of dominance - I would be loath to lose that to try and trade it for an improved breakdown, especially given the AB's propensity to come in at the side, go off their feet and not have the tackler release the player before competing for the ball anyway . I would rather try and keep my control of the line-out and ask other players to step up - O'Mahony for example is much more likely to hit a ruck for Munster than he did for the Lions yesterday. If Itoje comes in his pace will help in this aspect too.
AWJ is an honest hard working player but he should not have even been on the plane, let alone in the team for the first test. How Gatland could have left Joe Launchbury out of the squad is unfathomable.
Also why was Mike Brown not selected for the squad ?
Warburton is too small and ineffective at this level, he is also too nice, the Lions captain needs to be feared as much by his own players as the opposition.
The Lions should be making this a war, they should smashing into the AB's both in defense and attack.
First scrum engineer a confrontation/fight, win or lose let them know there in for an 80 mins of assault and intimidation.
I like this story http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-uni...-ioanes-floor/
Who's going to play themselves into contention this morning then? Best? Lawes? Stander? Henshaw?
Another great game, I'd say Lawes and Henderson must be in the squad for Saturday.
Yeah, I questioned the inclusion of Henderson on the tour, especially ahead of Launchbury or Gray, but up until his yellow card he played a stormer.
I rate Lawes very highly indeed - Itoje and Lawes would be a very dynamic combo at lock, but the extra bulk of Kruis (and his lineout calling) may see him keep his place in the starting lineup.
Even as a Welshman AWJ and Sam are odd choices.
But hopefully Gatland knows more than me and they win
I don't get why he's picking so many Welshmen? Surely the most sensible thing would be to pick the England team, stick a couple of the Irish forwards in and add Faletau and hey presto - victory! The England team would have overcome that All Blacks team last Saturday - they weren't that good they just weren't stopped and the line speed wasn't there
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Tough on O'Mahony - didn't exactly do a lot wrong in the first test and now goes from captain to out of the 23 in a week. Rough on Te'o too - he's been the tour surprise performer for me so far and whilst he didn't light up the pitch in attack last week, he was solid in defence and his good work allowed Davies to perform.
Not sure what dirt AWJ has on Gats, but he seems to be teflon coated!
If they win, Gats is a tactical genius. When they lose, Gats will have a lot of questions to answer!
Wow - big calls by Gatland with the team. I wish them luck, but suspect that they could be in for a hiding.
His decision making is becoming more and more erratic. He brings in Welsh players because they're nearby, but won't play them when they could have made a difference to a Tuesday game because it would devalue the shirt. Now he's playing Sexton and Farrell together, and persisting with Wyn Jones is just bizarre.
Flameproof suit on:
I know Gatland's paid the big money to make the big decisions, but he appears to have disappeared into his own fundament.
AWJ again? There's a whiff of the testimonial/benefit/farewell tour about his selection. Is he Gatland's consigliere?
The inexperienced Itoje calling the lineouts?
Warburton? Is he really in the team on merit or because he's tour captain? Shades of 1983 & Ciaran Fitzgerald.
Poor Te'o; cast to the subs on the cause of 'Want to use Sexton, but Farrell must play - somewhere!'.
Can't understand why PO'M has gone from the 23. Stander isn't half the player he is. (Has Stander made or even attempted an offload in the games he's played? Trucks it up well, but then it's a ruck, slowing the game.)
Nowell preferred over Halfpenny/Seymour on the bench. Would North have got that slot if not injured?
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Jim.
Welcome to the frustrating world of the Welsh rugby supporter
I think the whole shooting match is in danger of falling apart due to Gatland's hubris. He's a stubborn guy as we have seen over the last few seasons and few would argue that the Welsh side have suffered as a result. The Lions look to be staring at a similar fate.
Looking at the squad for the 2nd test you have to wonder what he's thinking? I thought Teo was excellent in the 1st test and notably kept SBW pretty well contained. Why they took him off when they did is a mystery and replacing him with Farrell for the 2nd test is a bigger one. SBW will be rubbing his hands with glee at the prospect of running down his channel.
Sexton will happily kick the ball away as will Murray. We're not going to beat the ABs without the ball! Please stop kicking it away!
Henderson had an incredible game midweek (even with the yellow) but like a few others was flogged for the full 80, again to seemingly satisfy Gatland's Hubris in avoiding playing any of 'the 6' unless forced by injury. Hopefully he'll feature in the last test.
Lawes has been the player that's most impressed for me. He's been a bit unlucky with a few HIAs but I hope he's given an early chance on Saturday.
AWJ has been to hell and back with Gatland and will run until he drops or is HIA'd (which I think he may have been close to last week following some big collisions). He's also a smart operator but clearly not in the form of old. Probably his last game on tour unless he catches fire.
We desperately need to slow their ball down at the breakdown. SW is as good as it gets over the ball BUT:
1. He's under-cooked
2. How he's going to do that at 6 with SOB at 7? Will they swap around to suit the play?
Shame North is injured as he made some good yards and was looking dangerous and would possibly have been on the bench. Nowell probably edges it over 1/2p as the more dangerous runner. Defensively not in the same league though.
Very anxious about the 9 10 12 setup and fully expect at least 1 to be targeted. Would have preferred Farrell at 10 despite a difficult game last week as Sexton has been a shadow so far. However, his understanding with Murray will help and hopefully he's due a big game.
Biggar has been the form 10 for me (even with Laidlaw's glacial service) and I'm not sure what more he could have done to put his hand up. Gatland had a long history of overlooking him (and others) though.
Gatland is a good coach in so many ways but has demonstrated that he can be incredibly blinkered and not a little spiteful when it suits. These traits IMO prevent him being a great coach.
Nevertheless, should the Lions by some miracle win the remaining 2 tests, he will no doubt be lauded as such.
Best of luck to all the boys for Saturday!
YES.
Get in.
Just
Fantastic!
Phew!!!!!!!
Cracking game!!
Karen Reed = total sportsman. All credit to NZ with 14 men but seeing Reed congratulate the Lions players with a warm smile after losing an unbeaten 49 game run says it all. Top top bloke!
Fair play to Kieran Read, he was gracious in defeat.
Not so sure Hansen will be though!
Go on boys what a result. Forwards stepped up and took in right to the all blacks. Game on now bring on the third test!
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Cracking result. Looked so much better trying to get the ball in the outside channel to maximise effect of SBW's idiocy. Too many penalties, Mako lost the plot and think we might be on the end of one next week but ecstatic I've managed to get next weekend off!
Lots of flak directed at Gatland selections. Hope the people dishing it out to him now applaud him for his team beating all blacks in their own yard. They even out muscled them.
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I think that a little perspective is required.
The Lions beat an All Blacks team reduced to 14 players after 25 minutes, and led for most of the game. A win is a win, the Lions (and particularly Mako Vunipola) gave away too many penalties, and fortunately Beauden Barrett wasn't kicking well.
Still, it's 1 - 1 with the decider next week. The Lions need to take any momentum they can from this win.
Good old British trait of calling for perspective after a famous win. For perspective how about "first game the all blacks lost in40" grab a beer and just enjoy it. Prob be 20 yrs before you see it again.
Oh and Farrell missed kicks too
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Barrett's kicking success was around 50%. Sonny Bill was sent off. The Lions won by 3 points, having trailed for most of the match.
Get real.
And the All Blacks lost to Ireland last year, in case you hadn't noticed. Beating them at home is something else, but this result doesn't prove anything.
Sure , they were down to 14 men
Sure, there is another test next week,
Sure they missed a few kicks,
But? we won didnt we?
Geez some people wouldnt be happy if we won 99-0!
...and those three points may well have come from the penalty in front of the sticks following a Liam Williams knock-on that the referee missed.
A match of fine margins & close decisions by the officials.
Vunipola could have been yellow-carded for his late hit & possibly red-carded for his clean-out on B. Barrett.
The BIL now have the chance to win the series if next week's game is refereed (by Romain Poite) like today's.
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Jim.
GAME ON. Great result today and, YES, the sending off was justified !!
COME ON YOU LIONS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ikr. Kind of guy that wouldn't be happy if he won the lottery. Wasn't lions fault the all blacks played foul and ended up red carded
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Fortunate for sure with Barrett missing 3 easy pens
But who cares a wins a win..... roll on next week :)
Exactly. Who cares how we won, it probably won't happen for at least another 12 years so enjoy the moment now!
Last edited by bonzo697; 1st July 2017 at 12:15.
Delighted at the win! Well done boys!
Plenty to pick out of that good and bad.
Not now though. Time to savour a rare victory over the best side in the world!
Edit to add: Hope Geech get back to full health soon. Thankfully it sounds like he's recovering well!
Last edited by jeff; 1st July 2017 at 13:16.
I agree that a win's a win but ill-discipline, especially by Vinupola made it a nerve-wracking 3rd quarter.
Barrett's penalty misses certainly helped us.
They certainly showed much more commitment at the breakdown.
What a great result. And, yes, roll on next week.
We have a chance if they cut out the stupid penalties: think lawes has to start with itoje and drop mako for a start
Great win. Keep this up. Think they will win next Saturday.
Some more perspective - Faletau scored when it was 14 v 14 and also the ref was pinging the Lions a LOT. Yes they were indisciplined but some of the pens were harsh. So I think the result is fair enough as the SBW incident was a definite red, Vunipola was a yellow only as it was nowhere near the same level of impact. ABs never looked threatening even when it was 15 v 15/14 v 14. Lions showed very poor game management though, to leave it so late was ridiculous.
Thought Itoje was dynamic but he's a penalty liability. Tadhg Furlong was my MOM as he dominated the Kiwis up front.
I tend to agree about Itoge, he's a strong presence in the line outs and the break downs but he does have a habit of going in straight off his feet into the ruck, which some referees would penalize.
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