Some of you may recall me asking for some compliance advice regarding setting up my own companies and leaving my employer.
I have indeed gone ahead with the setup or rather bought into an existing company to use as an umbrella. The owners are friends of mine and I helped them setup years ago. So I'm throwing in with them and we are expanding their company into my speciality areas with me as an equal partner of the whole shebang.
However I am still working for my employer of the last 8 years. I expect this will stop around October this year.
My current employer called me up on Saturday hurling abuse at me down the phone and accusing me of having lost a contract/client. I had a few choice words back at them.
They told me to resign (over whatsapp of all things) my response was "no" as I felt I had not done anything wrong and they were unreasonable. If they felt different they should send me formal notice and we'd go from there.
A few hours later I get an email of notice of termination and the reason given is "abusive language towards another member of staff , failure to follow superior's instruction".
They also stated I'd had multiple verbal warnings in the past...which I haven't ...not one.
I read it and suggested that the best thing all round is for me to resign in that case and ask them to withdraw the termination notice.
They agree. My manager immediately fires off an email saying "well that's what I suggested first , you were the one who insisted on termination".
I asked for a few days grace to draught the corresponding paperwork and submit formal notice.
Now... I reckon I have them for unfair dismissal , I've never had a notified verbal warning. No records or anything. I have another person in the company who is able to pull my record and supply it to me. I'm not expecting to see a single black mark on it. Given all that and the manager's written admission that the termination order was on the back of my refusal to be coerced into resigning..I reckon I have them by the plums.
It gets better...
The real reason for the dismissal is because they reckoned I had lost a contract for not delivering an asset on time to a client. Said client had been informed in person by me that I would be unlikely to deliver on time as they had changed their brief two days prior to delivery and I had urgently had to travel to help a much larger client with an outside emergency.
I met with the client the next day and they were totally fine with things and indeed reitterated that they were only contracting to my employer to work directly with me otherwise they would never have brought the work to them. ( I had won in the contract against all odds initially).
So now I've suggested to my employer that we put our guns away and get on with the work in hand as I'm too busy to deal with this sort of nonsense.
They have agreed to this and supposedly tomorrow will rescind the termination and have a meeting with me.
My employer is a total (choice description) berk yes?
Some friends and colleagues have enthusiastically told me to quit , claiming constructive dismissal. I have all the comms on email...my private email...and my personal phone account (how dumb is that eh?). I doubt I can be bothered pursuing it though.
I fully intend to leave within a few months anyway but I figured I would lay out a reasonable exit strategy to transfer over my current projects in order to cause both my employer and clients the least disruption. I was even planning to consider them for outsourcing certain simpler work and giving them a transitional period whereby they could pay me on a freelance basis to ensure any overhanging projects were not jeapordised.
Now I doubt I'll do much more than just give the 4 weeks notice when the time comes. Which means they will ultimately lose the contract at the initial heart of this nonsense as it will be nowhere near completion when I leave. Talk about self fulfilling prophecy.
Idiots yes?
Last edited by Mr.D; 28th May 2017 at 13:52.
I made the transition from employee to business owner 15 years ago. The best advice anyone gave me at the time was not to close any door except as a last resort.
Your present employer and or one or more of its key people could be a future client, introducer JV partner, etc.
I agree but this latest situation has just hammered home to me how dumb these guys are.Originally Posted by draftsmann
Very wise words. As tempting as it is to tell them where to get off, or sue them into the Stone Age, just keep smiling and play the long game.
As, by the evidence provided, he just keeps it pleasant it won't change the current mindsets, his current/ex employee is pretty much using him as a scapegoat and slinging the mud that way, i doubt future business will happen between the two due to this (as he'll be seen as someone who causes issues and lost them contracts), so for me the only way is to go for constructive dismissal if he has the evidence, otherwise he'll walk away, start afresh but still more than likely have the rumours following him that he was terminated, had lost contracts, etc, etc!
The questions I would ask myself are is the hassle worth going for constructive dismissal and how important are the clients to you business in the future.
If the clients could be beneficial in the future informing that you are leaving but have offered a transition plan might be good PR for the future, especially if your current employee does not take you up. Alternatively why not give notice now for the October date?
If they rescind the termination, I would stay there earning money until such time as it suited me to leave.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
This is very close to the actual situation and my approach to it.
To be honest I just posted the initial thread because I could not quite believe how stupid my employer was. The amount of back tracking they have to do is surreal.
I've been sending other reports and briefings this evening and the sameguy who terminated me is wading in agreeing with me and criticising others for not supporting me.
Its a loony bin.
Thats the plan 👍
If at all possible I would just 'play the game'. Try and stay there as long as possible to continue earning, when the time is right give the appropriate notice in a professional manner and leave on good terms. You never know what the future holds, but as my nan always said 'least said, soonest mended'.
I've spent today sending various reports.
The same person who "terminated" is wading in accusing others of not giving me enough support and backup.
He's just now complained to the very same client I supposedly lost for not flying me business for an upcoming meeting in two days time. He's also suggested I take over another project from someone else who he describes as incompetent.
Ironically that client is one of mine (and quite famous) and the only reason the project is with us is because of my relationship with then but I am too busy to supervise it directly. The client spoke to me first before involving my employer as he was worried they would screw it up without me overseeing it.
And actually in reality... nothing had happened. I hadn't lost the project... quite the reverse. So much energy over nothing.
Its like Terry Gilliam's Brazil.
Thats the plan. They have a tonne of younger peopIe here I've personally trained up over the years so I didn't want them losing work.
Truth be told I pretty much run the division. My so called boss has about 10% of my knowledge and experience and the clients know that. I'm pretty well known in the industry generally. Whenever anything serious goes down its me that handles it... the clients often stipulate in writing that I'm the lead on the project before they sign the contracts.
Hell my own company has actually used my employer for certain services. They even gave us a discount to ingratiate themselves... they don't know its my company though 😁
Somewhere in your original contract there is probably a clause about a requirement to disclose any other related business interests outside "the company". Failure to advise of this equals Gross Misconduct = game over.
I would just quit and go to your new business and put it all behind you.
Nope I checked . I'm free to have as many other jobs or businesses as I like. As long as there is no conflict of interest. Which the onus is on them to prove not for me to disprove.
I had it out with them a few years back when I was doing some outside consulting on request. They wanted to vet the projects ,I refused as my external clients were entitled to confidentiality. They said you can't do them. I said fine you'll have to compensate me for the loss of earnings . (Mutually disadvantageous covenant)
They backed down.
I'm not taking any of their current projects . If any of their clients want to approach me for future projects after I've left thats not a conflict of interest .
No gardening leave in my contract. If they want to implement it when I leave then they will have to cover me for any projects I've been awarded in the interim.
In reality its not worth the court time to prove these things unless its 10s of mills.
You go to a tribunal - assuming you win....... you only get compensated for tangible losses. You don't get punitive damages, you don't get your legal fees paid for.
I did it several years ago - spent around Ł14k in legal fees, but got much more than that in redress due to demonstrating tangible loss.
You should have gone for a mutually-agreed termination, where:
A). They pay you a mutually-agreed sum.
B). You agree on a written reference from them - from which they cannot deviate.
C). You take legal advice on the process.
Al
Eh? I suggest this advice is not reliable...........
I don't need their reference. As for legal advice I have plenty . I'm also a fully paid up member of a Union just itching tohave a pop at my employer.
Apparently HMRC is after them too.
This, really. Constructive dismissal only compensates you for any loss, so if you continue to earn the same via your own business then no loss, no compo. As Al says, best solution is a compromise agreement which can be any amount but the first Ł30k or so can be made tax free plus an agreed reference with a full NDA both sides.
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Then you're golden, no advice needed from here or anywhere else, hope your move works out for you. Sounds like you're better off working on your own anyway since you have all the skills, relationships, knowledge and expertise and you're just carrying all your current colleagues.
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They chickened out . Today is the first day back in the office. All forgotten and forgiven.
Hugs and backslaps.
The only thing I can add here is I know of an instance where a friend had a clean record up to the point of trouble starting with a new boss and all of a sudden there appeared notes in his record, as far as I know it went to a hearing and the union was able to produce copies of his record up until a month before with no notes on it, now I don't know if this is hear say or if legal but as you say you have a source so why not get a copy
Yes that's definitely the plan.
Now - your sphere of work may be different, but in mine (and possibly others) - once the employer/employee relationship has soured, the best thing is to start to look elsewhere, and negotiate your exit. I've seen people "tough it out" and eventually got driven out (cleverly) with nothing.
But hey - some people might say that is 'unreliable'
Good luck (and record everything in future)
Al :)
I am not good with the British law terms, but is there a Non-Competition Clause in your current contract? Your employer is looking for trouble. Now or in the future. Check the do's and don'ts of the non-competition clause (if there is any) and be sure that your new job doesn't conflict the clause. Not in your opinion, but in his. You've experienced his volatile attitude. Fighting a false accuisation can be time and money consuming.
Menno
Non compete clauses are pretty much unenforceable, unless your employer wants to pay you to sit at home for a period of time till your knowledge becomes past it's useful life. Confidentiality is different and breach can be very expensive!
... as they are here. Good for bringing that out. However, we've read that the OP's current employer can't be trusted. I am only afraid that there's a chance that the OP will be sued by his rancerous ex-employer. Best he prepares for that!Non compete clauses are pretty much unenforceable,
Menno
walk away tomorrow, take all the evidence you can, go for constructive dismissal, take out of court settlement after after evidence disclosures, and dont sign any no compete clause.
sit back in your new job happy, with lots of wonga
Not quite sure what tangible losses he would have, and the other side won't bother making an offer after disclosure of income - that's for sure.
A tribunal can also be detrimental to future employment. I know it shouldn't, but this is the real world, and future employers may think twice about employing. I know that is not so relevant in the OP's case - but 'in general'
Just leave. Give reasonable notice if you are really at a critical stage of a project. See out all your existing commitments.
No point in staying as despite anything said they now trust you about as much as you trust them.
Tribunals, legal actions etc. These make lawyers richer. Focus on your on going career.
Sounds quite familiar,
Team meeting at the end of February and I'm the company hero, two weeks into March and I know something is wrong but no ideas what, mid April and it was like a bad divorce, still no notion of what went sour, start with new company July,
''life don't talk to me about life''.
probably just realized you are a PITA, it was only a matter of time.
Ohh Yeah, BOOM HEADSHOT
Magic, excellent contribution, shouldn't you be wiring a plug somewhere?
BOOM HEADSHOT
Sent on the run.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
I'm planning to go by about October anyway.
My other company is setup we even have a legal team on board.
I'm not worried about non-compete clause , like I said its been investigated already and its pretty much unenforcible.
Just a recap.
Apparently I'm up for one national award and one prestigious international award.. in the week they fired me
oh the ironyJust a recap.
Apparently I'm up for one national award and one prestigious international award.. in the week they fired me
have to concur the best advice was always 'build bridges, not walls'
just leave or get them to make you redundant - will always look better than a termination or legal wrangle.
I had a similar 'termination' when I came back from a week off at a place that was financially in trouble, they had completely fabricated some customer complaints an official ticking offs that never happened and appeared in my (and other employees) file overnight, when I told them I could prove we never got notice of these and that this would go to a class act unfair dismissal I they agreed on a redundancy package for us -
i didn't have anything lined up and was out of work for 6 months - in the past I had been made redundant twice by the same company and after 6 months of no work and driving my Mrs nuts,
I found a new job thanks to not burning any bridges, with that company that shifted me twice... been there for 9 years now
believe in karma ....
It's always good to leave at the hight of your careerJust a recap.
Apparently I'm up for one national award and one prestigious international award.. in the week they fired me
Menno
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