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Thread: Potential very valuable Rolex need expert opinion help

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    Unbelievable though it may seem, some owners wear their watches for the real life purpose intended.
    I very much like Haywood's sentiment (express and implied) - I would be delighted to look down in my dotage at the explorer on my wrist and see that it had aged as I have aged. In fact, I should be very sad had it not... a sort of testament to a life less than fully lived.

    Well done OP, well done old lady, well done old gent and his plastic bag.

  2. #52
    Master
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    What a find! What a thread :)

  3. #53
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    Given the value of these pieces, would a trip to Liverpool not be a day well spent?

    Haywood would be able to evaluate fully and offer some great advice on the next steps, if indeed they are to be sold.

    Just a thought.

  4. #54
    Craftsman Frakius's Avatar
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    Found this informative post on the rolex forums about various 1675 dials, it looks almost certain from the pictures that this is a service dial, and as someone mentioned it looks like a service insert and hands, no doubt the owner wasn't interested in historical correctness with his watches and when sent in for service obviously had Rolex do the everything they could to return it to like new condition.

    https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ight=gmt+dials

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Frakius View Post
    it looks almost certain from the pictures that this is a service dial, and as someone mentioned it looks like a service insert and hands, no doubt the owner wasn't interested in historical correctness with his watches and when sent in for service obviously had Rolex do the everything they could to return it to like new condition.
    Agreed. For a 1675, that's also a service date wheel.

  6. #56
    Craftsman Frakius's Avatar
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    Been potentially a service dial/insert/hands/date wheel how will this affect the cost of the GMT, I imagine it will lower the value a bit but really not sure what kind of price. Will she take a big hit taking it to a dealer/auction house rather than selling privately?

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frakius View Post
    Been potentially a service dial/insert/hands/date wheel how will this affect the cost of the GMT, I imagine it will lower the value a bit but really not sure what kind of price. Will she take a big hit taking it to a dealer/auction house rather than selling privately?
    Typically the auction house will take around 40% from the full, actual price paid by their buyer before the seller receives their net proceeds.

    For example, Fellows add 24% to the hammer price in buyer's fees and at the other side the seller might have deducted from the hammer price 10% in fees plus photography, insurance etc.......and Fellows are among the more reasonable!

    The comparison with selling privately covers a great range of results. Sell WELL privately and she'll do better than auction, sell POORLY or in HASTE and she may well do worse.

    Typical auction lead time is a couple of months, to allow for cataloguing, advertising period etc.

    As for the value, there is no "right answer," but I was happy that the sum I suggested allowed for the dial shown.

    Haywood

  8. #58
    Craftsman Frakius's Avatar
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    Thanks for that Haywood!


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  9. #59
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    Wow what a find, following this with interest.


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  10. #60
    Two lovely watches. That dub in particular is something special.

  11. #61
    Did you say the 1675 has Box and papers?

  12. #62
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    the subs case looks to be in a very original condition.

  13. #63
    Master Mark020's Avatar
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    Subs dial is service though.

  14. #64
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dejay View Post
    Does anyone wonder how such beautiful watches become so much in poor condition irrespective of age .?
    Yes, it's called wearing them to do everything in. That's how chunks get knocked out of bezels.

    There would be a time when that Sub was worth not a lot, and the owner probably just wore it as an everyday watch. Still the same watch, just that people's perceptions of what it's worth have changed. Same applies to the GMT.

    A very interesting find, but not the sort of stuff I get excited about. Hopefully they'll sell well and the lady can make use of the money.

    Paul

  15. #65
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    What a find !


    Seikoboy

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    There would be a time when that Sub was worth not a lot, and the owner probably just wore it as an everyday watch. Still the same watch, just that people's perceptions of what it's worth have changed.
    I'm not even sure it is "people's perceptions" but rather the little bubble that is the WIS world.

    Most people are happy to own one, or two, watches and wear them daily. This forum, and others like it, can create a strange idea of what is normal. To 99.9% of the population, I'd wager owning a watch and admitting that you're too worried to wear it would be a foreign, and bizarre, concept.

  17. #67
    Craftsman Frakius's Avatar
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    Quick update went round today and had a better look and got some more photos, I'll upload some better ones soon.

    I got the serials and model numbers and they confirm the GMT is a 1675 and the serial dates it to 1966 (starts 121, 7 digits), the other one is a 5508 and the serial dates it to 1960 (starts 489, 6 digits) Was surprised how hard it was to read them, they are so finely engraved and tiny and with accumulation of fine dirt etc
    That makes the GMT a bit more special been older I guess. Neither of them have any Lume luminance left at all. Anyway once I get my photos processed i'll upload some much better quality ones.

    She is storing them individually bubble wrapped now so they are now safely stored thank goodness!

    Also please remember these are not my watches and I am not selling them or acting on her behalf to sell them, there is a very small chance once the Probate is done that they may be offered privately for sale if that happens I may be able suggest something that keeps them amongst people on the forum where the watches would be appreciated and seen at least in wrist shots from time to time.

    a quick teaser picture until then


  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    Typically the auction house will take around 40% from the full, actual price paid by their buyer before the seller receives their net proceeds.

    For example, Fellows add 24% to the hammer price in buyer's fees and at the other side the seller might have deducted from the hammer price 10% in fees plus photography, insurance etc.......and Fellows are among the more reasonable!

    The comparison with selling privately covers a great range of results. Sell WELL privately and she'll do better than auction, sell POORLY or in HASTE and she may well do worse.

    Typical auction lead time is a couple of months, to allow for cataloguing, advertising period etc.

    As for the value, there is no "right answer," but I was happy that the sum I suggested allowed for the dial shown.

    Haywood
    I have found that the usual Fellows seller fee actually adds up to something closely approaching 20% by the time they have added all the sundries and extras including VAT of course. They do a great job but both seller and buyer pay through the nose for it.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padders View Post
    I have found that the usual Fellows seller fee actually adds up to something closely approaching 20% by the time they have added all the sundries and extras including VAT of course. They do a great job but both seller and buyer pay through the nose for it.
    ...but add the buyer's fee and you have something like 40% deducted from the actual amount he paid for your watch, see?

    The exact percentage will vary with the value of the individual sale, as there are some elements of the cost which are fixed.

    As for paying through the nose, I did an extensive survey of costs in 2015 and Fellows were among the cheapest by a mile, realising more for me than any other on average.

    H

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    ...but add the buyer's fee and you have something like 40% deducted from the actual amount he paid for your watch, see?

    The exact percentage will vary with the value of the individual sale, as there are some elements of the cost which are fixed.

    As for paying through the nose, I did an extensive survey of costs in 2015 and Fellows were among the cheapest by a mile, realising more for me than any other on average.

    H
    It was your estimate of 10% seller fee I was commenting on. I do take your point about fixed fees which will clearly affect lower priced items more but in my experience the Fellows overall take is indeed 40-45%* of the hammer price vs, what, 13% at eBay. I do realise that bricks and mortar auctioneering is a very different and safer offer than the Wild West that is eBay but nevertheless the comparison is marked. Nice work if you can get it.

    *Edited to concede that the overall take is probably nearer 40 than 45%, the main point I am making is regarding the seller fee since there is a good chance the OP will be looking at disposal routes.
    Last edited by Padders; 27th May 2017 at 07:59.

  21. #71
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    I think both watches would sell well on here 'as is' if the owner decided to sell and although it is technically selling on behalf of someone else, Eddie may look sympathetically on this case if asked for his approval.

  22. #72
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Wow what a find and has been said all credit to you for bringing them to light and operating a valuation for her, I hope the lady and her family commend you for your honesty.

    Matching hands to dial on that GMT with a faded bezel insert would make it even more incredible, just makes you wonder what is out there in dusty old draws waiting to be found..

    Going to love following this thread..

  23. #73
    Craftsman Frakius's Avatar
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    Some better images of the watches, the GMT is really lovely and I can see the attraction in them after handling it while I took the photos, sadly well out of my budget for a watch. The 5508 is nice but I think most of it's hype is in the rarity of the watch, it's a pretty standard looking 3 hand diver even compared to modern watches, though it is smaller and very thin compared to modern divers. 5508 pics this post next post GMT ones splitting for sake of editing ease.

    5508 in between Lugs



    Close up of Dial in sunlight you can see the matt finish of the 5508




    Can see a tiny amount of the Lume has fallen out of hands



    Crown on the 5508



    Damage to the bezel insert and pearl



    Very sharp chamfered edges



    bracelet numbers


  24. #74
    Craftsman Frakius's Avatar
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    GMT pictures.

    1675 between lugs



    closeup of dial



    Sharp chamfered edges again





    crown



    Bracelet on GMT



    and lastly a shot in the sun to show colour of dial


  25. #75
    Interesting find, I like the watches in this condition. Great pictures you have taken too.

  26. #76
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    The GMT is just a peach.

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  27. #77
    Craftsman Ribena36's Avatar
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    Really enjoying this post. Love it when the experts come out and give their opinions on why it's a certain model/year/replacements etc!
    Please can OP let us know which route we he owner takes to sell, once decided?


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  28. #78
    What a great find and thread

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  29. #79
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    I'll say it again the GMT is a right looker, pepsi bezel with that orange aged lume is just wow, even the service hands are turning a nice shade..

    Very light restoration and a service and it will win any watch beauty contest.

  30. #80
    The serial for the GMT puts it at around 1964 and that would be with a Gilt Dial with small 24hr hand so definitely service dial, hands and insert plus date wheel in my opinion. It also has a much later bracelet which was probably changed at service and it would be interesting to know the clasp code. It will have a value but that will lower because of the service items but still a very nice watch.
    Last edited by leefowler; 29th May 2017 at 14:38.

  31. #81
    Craftsman Frakius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leefowler View Post
    The serial for the GMT puts it at around 1964 and that would be with a Gilt Dial with small 24hr hand so definitely service dial, hands and insert plus date wheel in my opinion. It will have a value but that will lower because of the service items but still a very nice watch.
    Be nice if she can find the box and papers and any service information, would be nice to know when it was serviced as the replacement dial looks old too. She had been with him for 16 years and she couldn't ever remember seeing him wear them, he always had his Polar Explorer on.

  32. #82
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    The lack of any replacement/service parts is, i assume, why the Rolex on the USA antiques roadshow was worth so much much money.

    Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

  33. #83
    The GMT is a really nice piece, I'm sure the sub is more valuable, but I would be thrilled to own the GMT with its vibrant mix of colours.

  34. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Frakius View Post
    Be nice if she can find the box and papers and any service information, would be nice to know when it was serviced as the replacement dial looks old too. She had been with him for 16 years and she couldn't ever remember seeing him wear them, he always had his Polar Explorer on.
    The clasp code on the bracelet might help with that but I would think it could have been serviced in the late 70's.

  35. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by stefmcd View Post
    The lack of any replacement/service parts is, i assume, why the Rolex on the USA antiques roadshow was worth so much much money.

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    Plus it was a 6542 GMT as well which is in a different league when it comes to value.

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by leefowler View Post
    Plus it was a 6542 GMT as well which is in a different league when it comes to value.
    Ta. Is the difference simply rarity or also where each were in the Rolex range?

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  37. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by stefmcd View Post
    Ta. Is the difference simply rarity or also where each were in the Rolex range?

    Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
    The 6542 was the very first GMT and is a completely different watch to the 1675. Be easier for you to research rather that me explain on here, be a lot easier!

  38. #88
    Master Yorkshiremadmick's Avatar
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    Great post, she was lucky that it was you, that you showed an interest in hers, thus bringing the gems out. As a matter of course what else was in the bag

    As already been stated, I think that they should be sold on here with Eddies permission of course.



    Michael
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  39. #89
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    Going to be a fantastic read as this goes on.

  40. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Yorkshiremadmick View Post
    Great post, she was lucky that it was you, that you showed an interest in hers, thus bringing the gems out. As a matter of course what else was in the bag

    As already been stated, I think that they should be sold on here with Eddies permission of course.



    Michael
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    I think there would be a lot of interest...I love the GMT 😉

  41. #91
    Master Yorkshiremadmick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougair View Post
    I think there would be a lot of interest...I love the GMT
    Me too
    Well love them both to be honest


    Michael
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  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefmcd View Post
    Ta. Is the difference simply rarity or also where each were in the Rolex range?

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    That model used a bakelite bezel, which wasn't a robust design. Most were broken over the years. Intact examples are big money.

  43. #93
    Master
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    Cheers. Makes sense.

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  44. #94
    Journeyman Alan...'s Avatar
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    What a great piece of reading
    Its good to see honesty as well.
    Gives you a nice warm feeling.

  45. #95
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    Great thread. 10/10 to the OP for doing the right thing.

  46. #96
    Craftsman Frakius's Avatar
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    Potential very valuable Rolex need expert opinion help

    Sent pictures to Christies AH with serials etc and they came back with $3000 4000 USD for the 5508 but said they wouldn't sell it condition not good enough? They liked the GMT said $6-8k USD on that which seemed closer to reality. Will let her know but with these prices I think she will want to go private.
    Also Christies said they will no longer sell watches in london, had to send these off to Geneva branch.

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  47. #97
    $9k for both! You'd pay that for just one of these gems. She will be much better off private sale. There will be dealer offers higher than that.

    I reckon there's already substantial interest on here for these.

  48. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by fordy964 View Post
    $9k for both! You'd pay that for just one of these gems. She will be much better off private sale. There will be dealer offers higher than that.

    I reckon there's already substantial interest on here for these.
    Yes seemed low, the 5508 does has a service dial which may be why christies don't think it will fetch much. I couldn't find a 5508 that had been sold with one, but been so rare that's not surprising really.


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  49. #99
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    If / when you have met the requirements to sell through this forum and if you choose to do so, if it would help I would be willing to appraise the watches for free on the basis that you will put the relevant percentage from the sales into Eddie's fundraiser.

    H

  50. #100
    People are paying $5k all day for sketchy Tudor subs these days. It does seem a bit low to me.

    That's like 14060+16710 moderns money.

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