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Thread: Onkyo av amp problem

  1. #1

    Onkyo av amp problem

    I know there are a few hifi geeks here too . Had this nr809 av amp a few yrs but the dreaded hdmi board has died
    Well it hasn't as such the dsp chip has came off the board meaning there's no sound from the amp.

    It's a common problem and was repaired under warranty but was only given a 90 day warranty on the repair that was 18 months ago ,
    Since it has already been repaired before onkyo don't wanna know or will charge me 250/ 300 for a new hdmi board .
    Does anyone here know how to reball / refit a chip or knows anyone that has tried it.

    Or should I call it a day and get a new amp ?

  2. #2
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanski View Post
    I know there are a few hifi geeks here too . Had this nr809 av amp a few yrs but the dreaded hdmi board has died
    Well it hasn't as such the dsp chip has came off the board meaning there's no sound from the amp.

    It's a common problem and was repaired under warranty but was only given a 90 day warranty on the repair that was 18 months ago ,
    Since it has already been repaired before onkyo don't wanna know or will charge me 250/ 300 for a new hdmi board .
    Does anyone here know how to reball / refit a chip or knows anyone that has tried it.

    Or should I call it a day and get a new amp ?
    Me, bin it and get a new future proof one. End of

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by alanski View Post
    I know there are a few hifi geeks here too . Had this nr809 av amp a few yrs but the dreaded hdmi board has died
    Well it hasn't as such the dsp chip has came off the board meaning there's no sound from the amp.

    It's a common problem and was repaired under warranty but was only given a 90 day warranty on the repair that was 18 months ago ,
    Since it has already been repaired before onkyo don't wanna know or will charge me 250/ 300 for a new hdmi board .
    Does anyone here know how to reball / refit a chip or knows anyone that has tried it.

    Or should I call it a day and get a new amp ?
    Can you take a photo of the chip in question and also the PCB it is to be fitted to. I may be able to help.

    Regards

    Gary

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by galewis View Post
    Can you take a photo of the chip in question and also the PCB it is to be fitted to. I may be able to help.

    Regards

    Gary
    Thanks Gary will take a couple pics after once I get home

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by alanski View Post
    Thanks Gary will take a couple pics after once I get home
    Cushtee... I'm out for the rest of the evening, but will look at your pics in the morning and advise accordingly.

    Cheers

    Gary

  6. #6
    thanks gary

    heres a couple scans , heres the suspect chip which powers the speakers and a pic of the board






  7. #7
    Craftsman
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    No words of advice unfortunately other than I had the same issue with my onkyo amp and they weren't really interested in helping. Quickly gave up and bought the Yamaha rx-a1060 amp instead

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by a13x View Post
    No words of advice unfortunately other than I had the same issue with my onkyo amp and they weren't really interested in helping. Quickly gave up and bought the Yamaha rx-a1060 amp instead
    Yeah won't buy another onkyo , they used to be a great brand but less so now.

    Have a Sony and marantz amps still working after 10+ yrs without a hitch .

  9. #9
    Master
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    I bought a 905 back in the day and it lasted two weeks.....

    Also got a 606 for the bedroom and that's still going fine.

    Best AV amps I've ever had were the Yamaha A1 and A2.

    Got a Z7 now and it's pants in comparison sound wise.

  10. #10
    Craftsman
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    I will always buy Yamaha now. Best amp i have owned...

    Sent from my YOGA Tablet 2-1050F using TZ-UK mobile app

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by alanski View Post
    thanks gary

    heres a couple scans , heres the suspect chip which powers the speakers and a pic of the board





    So, is that BGA DTS chip just sitting there completely loose? Assuming so, can you show me a close-up picture of the underside of the chip and also a close-up picture of the PCB please? I need these to see if the PCB pads have been damaged in any way and also to see what state the BGA balls are in. I can't reball a BGA (although I can point you in the direction of companies that can), but it might not be necessary. If the condition of both the chip and PCB are sound, I can certainly refit the chip using Infra Red rework gear.

    If the chip needs reballing, it probably isn't worth getting it done, but if the PCB is good, then it might be worth spending the £20ish to buy a replacement D830K013BZKB4 chip. I could definitely fit a new part to the existing board.

    A correctly fitted BGA creates an inter-metallic bond between the PCB and the device. No mechanical force could seperate them... either the chip silicon would break or the pads would rip off the PCB. It looks as if the oven reflow profile was incorrect (too low a temp or too short a time of molten solder aka 'time above liquidus').

    Best regards

    Gary

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by galewis View Post
    So, is that BGA DTS chip just sitting there completely loose? Assuming so, can you show me a close-up picture of the underside of the chip and also a close-up picture of the PCB please? I need these to see if the PCB pads have been damaged in any way and also to see what state the BGA balls are in. I can't reball a BGA (although I can point you in the direction of companies that can), but it might not be necessary. If the condition of both the chip and PCB are sound, I can certainly refit the chip using Infra Red rework gear.

    If the chip needs reballing, it probably isn't worth getting it done, but if the PCB is good, then it might be worth spending the £20ish to buy a replacement D830K013BZKB4 chip. I could definitely fit a new part to the existing board.

    A correctly fitted BGA creates an inter-metallic bond between the PCB and the device. No mechanical force could seperate them... either the chip silicon would break or the pads would rip off the PCB. It looks as if the oven reflow profile was incorrect (too low a temp or too short a time of molten solder aka 'time above liquidus').

    Best regards

    Gary
    Thanks Gary

    For your expert reply , if you could change the chip it's worth a punt i think ?

    I can get the hdmi board off and sent to you to if you could try replacing the existing dsp chip

    The hdmi board still works as the switching on it is fine . Just doesn't have any sound for that chip .

    Al
    Last edited by alanski; 28th April 2017 at 00:10.

  13. #13
    if a BGA has somehow come off it will need to be re balled before it can be re-soldered, if you think it is worth it get it re-balled and I can put it back on the board for you. there are companies the do re-balling, this pre supposes the I/c still works, the chances are the I/C is an ASIC and not readily available, other than from Onkyo if they will sell you one.

  14. #14
    Master
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    Also interested in knowing of anyone who can sort such issues. I've got a not inexpensive Denon UDP that's had the HDMI go twice now. First fixed under warranty, second the retailer refused to help and Denon just say contact the retailer. Still works as an analogue CD player but that's not what i want it for and it has no other digital outs than the HDMI.

  15. #15
    OK.. I've been reading up a bit on this and it appears that it doesn't seem to be an issue with poor fitting of the part, rather than the quality of the part itself or inability to operate effectively in its application environment. Turns out this particular chip (D830K013BZKB4) had a lower than expected mean-time-before-failure (probably overheating) and was subsequently withdrawn from the market by Texas Instruments and replaced with an uprated part, D830K013DZKB4W.

    What's not clear is if any there are any other subtle changes required to either the PCB layout or the software/firmware implementation to enable use of the newer chip, but it's kind of irrelevant because, dissappointingly, I'm unable to find any of the 'D' variant available to buy. There are one or two ebay examples of the 'B' variant, ranging in price from £11.50 to £50.00, but they're not from official distributors, so there's no knowing the history of how this part has been kept from and ESD handling or moisture perspective which could render them 'duds'. You might be surprised to learn that 'fake' parts are rife in the market place and it's my company's policy only to buy from official distributors. You might be lucky and buy a pukka part, but as we know that the part has inherent application problems anyway, you might well think.... too much of a gamble? That's a question only you can answer.

    Armed with that information, if you still want to proceed, and if you can get your hands on a replacement part and can send it and the PCB to me, I'd be more than happy to swap it out for you, free of charge of course. I've had a couple of favours and taken some great advice from folks on here, so it'd be nice to give something back..

    Otherwise... good luck in selecting a new receiver! Shame that Onkyo seem to be slipping from a quality standpoint. I had DS595 back in the day (one of the very first mass market PLII receivers) and it was a joy. My money would go on a new Yamaha or Denon. Do yourself a favour and avoid Arcam. I have first hand experience with their stuff and it's my opinion that it looks nice, sounds nice, but component choice and assembly quality is decidedly bottom drawer. They use the cheapest, nastiest components they can get their hands on, cheap single sided PCBs that aren't plated-through, and cheap plastic hardware. I'm sure the designs are first-class, but the execution is god-awful.

    Cheers

    Gary







  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by rincewind View Post
    Also interested in knowing of anyone who can sort such issues. I've got a not inexpensive Denon UDP that's had the HDMI go twice now. First fixed under warranty, second the retailer refused to help and Denon just say contact the retailer. Still works as an analogue CD player but that's not what i want it for and it has no other digital outs than the HDMI.
    I think the important thing to understand here is that unless you have access to the circuit diagram (which is extremely unlikely unless you're very lucky), it's next to impossible to fault find what has failed unless it's blindingly obvious (e.g. HDMI socket has become detached, or clear dry-joints, bulging electrolytic caps etc...). After that it's a case of swapping out 'suspect' parts, but it can be very hit and miss). But if you 'know' where the fault is, I can probably swap the part out).

    Regards

    Gary

  17. #17
    Thanks Gary I will try and get a new chip and take it from there

    Thanks again for taking time to reply and research .

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