Reply With QuoteDo you mean the first or the best?
I've read about a few watches that lay claim to be THE original divers watch. Claiming to have the greatest history. Which one is seen as 'The Daddy' as it were?
Just reading about the Fifty Fathoms on another thread and it got me thinking. There a lot with rich histories and it made me wonder who people see as the original, The Godfather etc. etc.
Do you mean the first or the best?
Good question.
I suppose I mean first of the type we still see today in a new guise.
The first best if you want!
Have a look here;
https://monochrome-watches.com/coust...o-team-part-1/
I've focused my collection towards modern JC versions, anyway I think the Fifty Fathoms was 1955, so just before Rolex (dont quote me on that!)
I've edited this to put in that My favourite by far is the FF.
Last edited by ghosty; 25th April 2017 at 16:47.
These are just my opinions so feel free to disagree I won't take it personally
Possibly the first of its kind? from 1916 the "Submarine" they are not very well known (although David Boettcher has some interesting research on it) http://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/wa....php#Submarine
I think that it is quite a close thing between the Panerai, Fifty Fathoms and Submariner, although they are all guilty of becoming luxury toys over the years and less true to their origins.
Personally I think the Rolex has become the standard that all others are measured against and therefore gets my vote as The Daddy!
I also think that the Seiko tuna was the last of the true dive watches before dive computers took over.
It would be good to get the thoughts of anyone on the forum who dives for a living???
Helpful piece here: https://horahalus.com/2016/04/10/the...ted-the-first/
Summary:
"In short, Rolex created the first waterproof case, forcing Omega to think of a way to come up with their own design, which led to the ‘case on case’ patent, hence, creating the first dive watch in the technical sense.
Panerai did not believe the Omega to be good enough for the Italian Navy, and so, decided to strike a partnership with Rolex, resulting in the first military dive watch.
Blancpain, having observed all of the above, set about improving the original incarnations and came out with the first modern dive watch.
No one company deserves more credit than the other. They were all great watchmakers who were working collectively (though unknowingly) to create that one watch that could go as deep as possible."
When I think of the modern dive watch I think:
Stainless Steel case, circular black dial, luminous markers, 3 hander, rotating bezel with an automatic movement.
Many watches fit that description, but the first was the Fifty Fathoms.
Yep, my thoughts too.Originally Posted by chrisparker
Cheers..
Jase
Though there are water-resistant watches that predate them, Rolex's Submariner and Blancpain's Fifty Fathoms share the distinction of being the first purpose-built diver's watches. I thought everyone knew that. :P
So what are the Panerai built for the Italian Navy and the silver-cased Longines built for the Royal Navy, which both preceded the Submariner and the FF by at least 10 years, if they are not purpose-built divers' watches?
^
Those don't seem to count for some strange reason. I suppose it's just one of those mysteries of the watch-nerd world.
Last edited by Belligero; 25th April 2017 at 19:03.
So perhaps it should be the first commercially available, purpose-built divers' watches.
Seems reasonable.
In any case, there can be little doubt that in terms of significance and history, the Submariner (including its close derivatives such as the Sea-Dweller) is "the" diver's watch of all time. N'est-ce pas? :)
Not sure the 1938-9 Panerai were really divers watches. They were designed for Commandos/Combat swimmers rather than divers. But clearly designed to be waterproof.
The first proper dive watch was the 1953 BP50 which also featured the moveable bezel and proper waterproofing.
The first Rolex to feature such a thing was not just the Submariner, but also the Turn-o-Graph and Sub Aqua all of which was released in 1954.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Difficult to define a diver Andy, however the "pig" riders wore compressed gas equipment .......and panerai.
They were underwater - known as 'frogmen' in the press of the day.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Very true Mike, but not sure how deep they went or for how long - plus they were 47mm
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
About 60ft Andy, you don't want to be on 100% O2 below that...trust me.
mike
Or for any great length of time.....About 60ft Andy, you don't want to be on 100% O2 below that...trust me.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Not disputing that, however were these watches issues to hardhat divers. I don't think so. Only to combat swimmers.
But its just an opinion.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
No Andy - you are correct.
The definition of diver (across the military) does not include hardhat or sat diving. Cousteau being the pioneer for non-commercial stuff was post Panerai in terms of the Blancpain/Doxa connections.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Were they on 100% compressed oxygen - for some reason I always thought they were using Davis rebreathers or is this one of the same thing?About 60ft Andy, you don't want to be on 100% O2 below that...trust me.
mike
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
IIRC Andy with the Davis gear you blew into the bladder to fill it, so ambient air then did a O2 injection from a buddy bottle every now and again, the CO2 was filtered out using a canister of sofnalime.
mike
Davis was for submarine escape.
The human torpedo guys used these....
http://www.divingheritage.com/torpedokern2.htm
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
My personal max depth limit on air is 50m/160, but generally 40m/130 is the limit set by the diving organisations and the dive specialist dive insurers. This is for bimbling SCUBA divers, not your rufty-tufty hard-working comm boys. ;-)About 60ft Andy, you don't want to be on 100% O2 below that...trust me.
THE diving watch? Sub, of course.
R
Last edited by ralphy; 25th April 2017 at 23:23.
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I wore my 1 yr old PAM when diving, bimbling SCUBA of course, and it let in water at about 10 metres. Hardly THE dive watch.......
Good read, but a rather UK perspective. Here is something from a Italian perspective. http://warfarehistorian.blogspot.co....ogmen-and.html that underpins what Mike was saying.
Check out the picture of Capt Teseo Tesei (b.1909-1941) and tell me he was not a "diver"
As for what they used - see here http://www.therebreathersite.nl/Zuur..._aro_ww_ii.htm
In respect to depth - I very much doubt that WW2 Combat Swimmers would have needed to go below 10m unless to get under Anti-Submarine nets. I would have thought 5-10m was all that was needed 95% of the time.
In respect to breathing compressed air. I have personally witnessed (well saw their dive computers) two guys who dived to 90m+ on compressed air. Crazy crazy people . That day I had spend about 40 minutes diving a wall at 25-28m and then another 40 minutes on a drift dive at 18-22m and was completely knackered.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Hence why I wear my old (1982) 16800 Sub rather than my 2001 Pam 002.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I now wear my sea dweller...... still love the PAM tho.
Sent from my SM-G920F using TZ-UK mobile app
I would never wear my 1665 or 5513 - even though they have both passed pressure tests - to chicken.
I have worn my 16750 GMT a few times, but the 16800 is the right tool for the job. (out of the tools I have available).
I suppose I could give my JLC Tribute to the Deep Sea, but again am too chicken.
Last edited by Andyg; 26th April 2017 at 17:33.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
What about the 1932 Omega Marine? I've seen claims that it was the first watch specifically designed, tested and qualified for diving, but I don't think I've ever read much about it on here.
I think that was more a swimming watch rather than a diver?
Cheers..
Jase
It was the first dedicated diving watch. It was conceived, tested, marketed and used as such. NO doubt about WHATSOEVER. Just read a bit up on it. Oh and not in Rolex brochures, - advertorials or - blogs.
I sit corrected 👍
Cheers..
Jase
Covered in the article I linked in post #6:
"In the 1930s, as diving was transitioning from a purely commercial/scientific activity to a more leisurely pursuit, Omega introduced the Omega Marine – the first wristwatch designed with diving in mind.
In order to avoid any potential infringement of Rolex’s screwed down design, Omega came up with a simple but ingenious design – a case within a case.
The design of the Omega Marine allowed its normal watch case – worn on all other occasions as an elegant dress watch – to slip into a second waterproof case equipped with a gasket at the back to seal both cases together before embarking on a dive.
It was quickly put to the test. In 1936, a few pieces of the Omega Marine were sunk into Lake Geneva to a depth of 73 metres for 30 minutes; it emerged unharmed and victorious.
From here, we establish fact number 2:
Omega created the first waterproof, and thus, the first dive watch, defined as one with the capability to remain submerged in a reasonable depth over a period of time."
Furthermore it was actually used for the purpose by the inventors and developers of the aqualung.
Case closed.
Last edited by Huertecilla; 26th April 2017 at 13:47.
Cheers - I missed your original post.
Not sure a case with in case qualifies to be honest, other people could claim that the first dive watches were those pocket watches worn my early submariners.
This is quite an interesting article http://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/waterproof.php#first
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Ah, a rerun of post #5!!
If they were at 60f on an o2 rebreather they were already at risk of an o2 hit, since the 2bar ppo2 they worked to was already far above the 1.6bar we worked on in the late 90's for deco. I think they tried to keep to 10m, no real need to be any deeper on their missions.About 60ft Andy, you don't want to be on 100% O2 below that...trust me.
mike
Thanks for this summary
Informative
Michael
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
I was told many years ago that the first waterproof watch was a Cartier.
It was a custom spec one off for Pasha of Marrakesh who liked the watch so much that he didn't want to take it off while swimming, so he had the waterproof version especially commissioned in 1932
Source:
http://www.ablogtowatch.com/brief-hi...proof-watches/
Last edited by nunya; 27th April 2017 at 21:50.
But that article doesn't claim that the Cartier was the first waterproof watch. It lists many others that preceded it, and explicitly says that Cartier was one of many companies looking to get in on this new market which others had created.
i have done a bit of diving, i will stick to my 1.8bar limit.
I have done my 100% oxygen course in Italy with an old Marina Militare incursore diver (he was in his 80's at that time and still teaching!!) with an even older Pirelli closed circuit and we stuck to 1.8 bar... Maximum depth 9 meters though...i have done a bit of diving, i will stick to my 1.8bar limit.
Last edited by carvass; 28th April 2017 at 21:57.
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