Reply With QuoteCan't offer any specific advice but I'm also looking for one and note that the prices have went a little silly now.
Morning all,
I've been looking for a Rolex GMT for some time now.
Having looked around for a 16750 for a while, I'm now thinking that a decent 16710 will be easier to find.
I've looked at prices and there's obviously a wide disparity between those in good/not so good condition, with box & paper and without and those freshly serviced.
I've found a freshly Rolex serviced 2006 model (new crown, new bezel inlay and crystal - total cost £695) with box and papers for just under 7K - Ouch !!!
It seems a bit pricey to me, but it's difficult to judge whether the price is about right given the service.
Does anybody have a view on this please?
Thanks
Adam
Can't offer any specific advice but I'm also looking for one and note that the prices have went a little silly now.
Last edited by -Ally-; 25th April 2017 at 19:56.
Miltons had one just under £6k
http://www.miltonaires.com/product-c...rts/gmt-master
but these watches are on the up - they are always in demand so don't expect a 'bargain'. Pepsi bezels always popular but coke is rarer (it seems). A good one will always command a high price. Differences are between the 2 models
Early 16750s came with a matt dial and tritium markers before switching to the gloss dial with WG surrounds as seen on the 16710.
All 16750s came with non-sel bracelets. As far as which bezel color is more popular, that's pretty much personal preference. The so called "pepsi" Red/Blue was the orginal color of the GMT as the watch was the official watch of Pan-Am airlines, They're colors were Red/Blue. In the early 70s Rolex offered a black bezel option for the 1675. Due to a difference in size of the bezel between the 16750 and the 16710 the Red/Black insert option of the the 16710 is not an option on the 16750. The 16710 can be had with all three.
Last edited by mrushton; 25th April 2017 at 09:03.
I've seen similar watches without box and paper for under £5.5k. Wouldn't pay 30% more for box and papers.
Prices seem to be on the up, I bought mine early last year and they seem to be about £2-3000 more now. It's an amazing watch and so easy to change the look with a choice of bracelets and the insert. I've bought all the option for mine and love it.
There seem to be a few variations, the one I wanted and bought was only produced between 2000-2002ish which means it has the solid end link bracelet but also the lugholes. Some people seem to want the earlier ones and other the later stick dials. But I am sure you'll love which ever one you go for.
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I think there are a number of factors driving up the price. Rolex GMT is definitely getting more popular especially pepsi variety as the modern version is only available in white gold. Pound has depreciated, and Rolex watches are a global product. Rolex has put their prices up. Vintage watches entering mainstream to a certain extent due to websites like hodinkee. Personally, I would not pay a large premium for box and papers as long as the watch completely checks out and is running well and you buy from reputable source. Fresh service is worth £400 imo and obviously comes with 2 yr Rolex gaurantee. Although, it's not hard finding a non service piece running well within COSC. With regards to 16750 vs the later models. That really depends on your tastes I think. I like both for different reasons (I also like the 6 digit ones).
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Seems pricey
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For me, the 16710, the 16610LV and the 16520 are the most perfected of the 5-digit references. And if I had to pick one as an only watch, it would be the 16710 because of its slimness, versatility and general usefulness.
I don't think Rolex has ever produced a better all-around watch, and that's before you consider that you have two bracelet and three insert options from which to choose. It's no wonder that they're appreciating in value; I find them much more desirable than their modern replacements.
Last edited by Belligero; 25th April 2017 at 19:21. Reason: damn autocorrect :P
Thanks for the feedback.
As I expected, opinions are as diverse as the prices on offer.
I have procrastinated for a long time about getting a 16710.
I have wanted what I would term a "true" GMT for a while but have always failed to justify the cost and go ahead, as it will mean I sell a few rarer and more interesting watches to get me the 16710, and I struggle with that concept.
So I asked the forum about it here
The forum voted decisively for the 16710.
And I have thought about it since.
Eventually I reached the conclusion that the GMT that really is best for me is actually the Omega 232.30.44.22.03.001, the blue/steel 600m Planet Odean GMT Coaxial
The fact is that it can be had new, at list price (£5.4k), for what the Rolex would cost. With papers in my name and a 2 year warranty. If a substantial discount is possible (which I have every reason to believe it is), the numbers are more interesting.
I have compared the two a lot (online and instore/at GTGs, I do not own either), and I think the Omega really does give the 16710 a run for its money. The crystal is far clearer and nicer, I like the colour combo, the lume is better, the WR is significantly more, the bracelet reputably better and the PO has a very nice fitted rubber deployant available too.
But by the time I get to do it, I may have changed my mind again.................
Dave
I agree with everything you are saying and I also have the same thoughts, but the difference in size is a major factor. Have you looked closely at the difference in height?Originally Posted by sweets
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Last edited by Yunsung; 25th April 2017 at 20:52.
Im not sure whether you flip watches or not but with the 16710 you're unlikely to lose money whereas the value of the P.O. will plummet like most other watches.
I spent a while looking for mine - the one in Milton was on their website as on hold even then - and called a few of the dealers recommended on here at the time, no one had one and none have ever got back m to me. I was pleased with one one I got, though as an ebay buy it was was a bit nerve wracking. I asked the seller to meet me at Rolex St James which he readily agreed to. It's a solid end link but with lug holes model, Pepsi dial though with an LN suffix on the tag I think it was originally black. With the correct box, all the papers, tags, full bracelet I paid a very reasonable price to be the second owner. I'm having it serviced (£475) as it's gaining a bit, but i don't think it's essential. I'm sure that even with the service cost I haven't lost, but it is a gorgeous thing and is my current favourite which I plan to keep.
Well worth the search, but if you see one be quick, I don't think I've seen one at remotely the same price as mine and that was only a few weeks ago.
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The 16710 is an interesting watch - I have been lucky to own three over the years in all bezel and bracelet combinations. In theory it should have been my perfect Rolex, I travel and have a fascination with aviation........in practice though it never really gripped me and I finally settled on a 14060M as being my favourite of the 5 digit series. When I came to sell my 16710s in 2012 no one was interested.....finally sold them to a dealer for about £2400 each (all were full sets in immaculate condition).........funny how times change and that these are now one of the hottest models around. Personally I think the prices are just mad at the moment and if I was looking for a GMT I would be searching for a really good example of the 16570 (black dial). I think they offer better value (relative term) and are a watch that you do not seen that often out in the "wild". That said, finding one that doesn't have a bashed-up bezel is no easy task.
Dave - we seem to have worryingly similar tastes and requirements. As I think I may have mentioned in a PM a few years ago, I long wanted a true, travel type GMT to go with a centre-minute Lemnaia 5100 style chronograph. Put those two together and you pretty much all that you need. I tried several compromises - two Fortis GMT chronos - one the office type, one a slightly compromised travellers' type; a Casio anadigital GW2500; a Casio 5600, and a Seiko GMT. Eventually, I bit the bullet, sold or traded a couple of armfuls of other watches, and bought a GMT II - a 2003, lug-holes + SEL y-series, B+P with a black bezel. I've since added a Coke (currently fitted) and Pepsi (as yet unworn) bezel.
It was on my wrist for pretty much the whole of 2016, mostly on the bracelet, sometimes on an Admiralty Grey NATO strap. I took both the Rolex and the Fortis Cosmonaut LE with me on my last three overseas trips, and never wore the Fortis. The Rolex is such a great all-rounder. It has enough WR - 100m is plenty good enough for anything I'm likely to do - and I'd happily wear it for a bit of recreational scuba diving (though it's been a while since I did any), in the pool or on the beach. The 120-click rotating bezel is handy as a zero mark for timing things - parking meters or pasta - and the lower profile case makes it very comfortable and equally suited to wear with shorts or a suit.
I did try the Omega PO GMT on several occasions. The appeal was its lume - probably rather better than the Rolex - and the fumed bezel pip. It is, perhaps, a marginally more functional watch than the Rolex. The latter's shortcomings are few: the cyclops irritates me because it sometimes makes it harder to read the time precisely, but by the time you can afford a Rolex GMT, your eyes probably need the magnifier; the flat sapphire crystal lacks the antireflective coating of the Omega, which probably makes it fractionally harder to read at a glance; the bezel lacks either lume, or a lumed pip.
But overall, I'm very happy that I made the right choice. The Omega is just too big, too tall, and, in steel, too heavy. The titanium version would improve things, but its shiny blue dial and applied markers put me off it a bit. We both have chunky Lemania 5100 chronographs - and the size for a tool watch of that sort is less of an issue.
But, as an all-rounder, for work or play, the Rolex 16710 is close to perfection - compromised perfection, perhaps, but it's probably the most versatile watch that Rolex have ever made, and the ceramic GMT IIC version in whatever bezel colour doesn't really add much except for maxi hands (which do offer better lume). But the 24-click bezel (useless for timing anything to the minute) and blingy polished centre-links make it a regressive step for me.
If I was unable to buy a Rolex, for whatever reason, I'd have bought - and almost did - an Omega 2234 SMP GMT with sword hands. I have the SMP Quartz 2264 version and the lume is superb, the sword hands are lovely and the domed sapphire with internal ARC makes it very legible. The only downside is the bezel font, and the fact that it's not a Rolex GMT II.
The Rolex has been in the box for the last 2-3 weeks as I've been reminding myself of the merits of my Fortis B-42 LE, and trying out a newly acquired Breitling M1. I did think, very briefly, of trading it against that recased Rolex SD 1665 that was on eBay recently, but had no great difficulty reminding myself how much versatility I'd lose from that sort of swap, so I dropped the idea. And it's on my wrist again today. The 24-hour bezel is set to East Coast US time, to remind me of what time I can call a business associate there (I got myself confused trying to work out when to call whilst wearing the M1). It fits comfortably under a business shirt and it's just the right size. Unbeatable!
Last edited by HappyJack; 26th April 2017 at 02:21.
That's another of my favourites, I have a lovely black dial 16570 I bought new in about 2002, quite a stealth watch and also great for travelling with the quickset hour.
It does seem a lot but probably about right from my experience of online prices. I wish I had bought the one I had my eye on in 05 as it was only £1895.
The price rise is starting to upset me. Whilst it's been a fabulous investment, my 2002 model is also my favourite watch. Over the last 10 years its been everywhere with me and I've throughly enjoyed as a genuine tool with a perfectly implemented complication.
However as I am starting to plan a trip to south eastern Europe and Turkey this summer and thinking about revisiting Romania and Bulgaria, I worry about my constant companion's value; both from and insurance/replacement and a personal safety point of view. I really wish these had remained affordable and easily replaced, so much so that i've started to price up an Explorer 2; just for travel duties.
Or you could just wear long sleeves. I've worn Rolex (mostly GMTs) off the beaten path all over eastern Europe, and four continents besides, without a problem. Romania and Bulgaria aren't particularly risky, anyway.
I travelled through the area and back through the Balkans by motorbike last year and I've been several times previously . Whilst it wasn't unsafe, I would not have wanted to be wearing an expensive watch. I used my CWC general service auto which was perfect. We were very far from the beaten track!
I agree but in my mind its been a readily available £2,500 watch, suddenly seeing these at up £7,000, and seemingly rare, can't help but change the way I look at it.
Funny thing is I would always flip a few watches and could do quite easily with my 5513, 16570, 14060 and of course my 16710 for a 5167a but I know I would regret it so I hang on to them which prolongs the agony for a PP.
If values were stable I would sell in a blink.
Mad, just mad.
Pitch
^
What's there to be in agony about? Entry-level Pateks are nothing special.
Well for my 2 pence worth I also believe that the 16710 is quite possibly the most versatile watch Rolex made. Couple that with the Pepsi bezel no longer being made in stainless and I think you go some way towards why they continue to be desirable, and hence why the prices seem high. At the end of the day it's about supply and demand - on the second hand market something is only worth what someone else will pay. If the market thought the watches were over priced, they wouldn't sell. But they obviously continue to do so, so perhaps the pricing is about right.
Around 6 months ago I was looking for a black bezelled 16710 to stick on a NATO and use as a beater, but the cost of a freshly serviced black bezelled ceramic when compared to a 16710 made it a no brainer.
I ended up with the LN........... And the bracelet and clasp are 100 times better!
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A 16700 Master may be a better option price wise.
You can always fit the glidelock bracelet from a sub and get the best of both worlds !
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Dom has just got one in this week:
https://www.hackettwatches.com/hw/items/JWEBALTFYX
On the assumption that he'd take the first offer of £6k (could be completely wrong of course) that's quite a rise in value in the 18 months since I bought mine for £4.5k.
Yes I saw that.
An update on my original post.
I was planning to take a look at a couple of 16710's at Mark Worthington's today - a 2004 Coke and a 2006 Pepsi, both freshly serviced by Rolex and both advertised at £6950. It wasn't clear if they were both full sets, but I thought I'd take a look at them.
Anyway, I had a conversation with them yesterday and both are now sold.
Doms looks nice but at £6k and probably due a service its quite an ask.
You can always fit the glidelock bracelet from a sub and get the best of both worlds !
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Just tried my 214270 clasp on my 2002 GMT, fits very nicely. When I get a chance later I am going to try the full strap to see how the older 16710 feels on a modern solid bracelet.
Its a nice option to have.
Yes agreed
When I swapped bracelets on the Daytonas, I found that I prefer the old-school one from the 5-digit reference for wearing. Personally, I think the slimmer and lighter older version is brilliant.
Worth a try all the same, but it's possible that the case and end links end up a being a mismatch like they were here:
A few on Chrono24 cheaper, including one at £4900. Haven't seen one with box and papers less than about £6500 for a while though, serviced or not.
Also a few say with box but it's the wrong box.
Hope you don't mind me asking: Did you actually meet the seller at Rolex St. James? If so, how did you organise it: Did you ask them in advance if they could 'host', did you ask them to look at the watch before purchase, and so on?
Thanks if you can answer these questions. Using ADs in this way is a common idea but very few people actually seem to have done it.
No problem, yes I did meet the seller at Rolex St James. I did not let them know in advance, and once inside I checked over the watch and paperwork in their nice little lounge area, and then asked them to resize the bracelet and to check the serial number, which they did. The seller (who was wearing a blnr) also asked them do do something to his, maybe also with the bracelet, which they also did. We offered to pay but there was no charge. Another inmate here recommended this approach (ie ask for a small piece of work like maybe a bezel change) rather than just ask outright if they would check the watch.
They did say that that are not confirming provenance, but I felt sure that if the watch was fake, had fake parts, or was on their list of dodgy serial numbers they would have informed me. TBH, though, as soon as the seller agreed to meet at Rolex.
It was great service, I've since been back in to ask them to remove the diver extension on my SD4000, and also I checked the 16710 in with them for a service. Very helpful people.
Last edited by berin; 29th April 2017 at 19:01.
Many thanks. That's all very useful to know.
Wow lucky you, my experience of a similar visit there was the complete opposite. They were suspicious and really reluctant to help.
Interesting. Was that recently? I wonder if it depends on who is on reception. When I went into drop the gmt off for service, I asked if the diver extension could be removed. The chap on reception took it out to the workshop, came back 2 minutes later saying they were reluctant to do it as the clasp extension was part of the clasp. I showed him how the extension wasn't in fact part of the clasp, showed him how it made the bracelet more uncomfortable and said it had been done many time. He took it away again and came back 5 minutes later with it removed, so I got there in the end. Again I offered to pay but there was no charge.
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