closing tag is in template navbar
timefactors watches



TZ-UK Fundraiser
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 54

Thread: Somali Pirates vs Ship Private Security

  1. #1
    Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Bucks. UK.
    Posts
    1,393

    Somali Pirates vs Ship Private Security

    Get some!


  2. #2
    Master -Ally-'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Eurabia
    Posts
    8,329
    That would be much fun.

  3. #3
    Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Carlton Colville, England
    Posts
    2,355

    Seen a few times

    Seen this one a few times and does kind of look quite good fun!!

    Must get the adrenaline going for both sides although I suspect the pirates quite quickly realised they may have made a mistake however a little too late!!
    They need the assault rifles to stop them then something a lot bigger to blow the boat out of the water once it's immobilised!!

    Chris

  4. #4
    Master KavKav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Warwickshire.
    Posts
    7,039
    Blog Entries
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by -Ally- View Post
    That would be much fun.
    More so with M61 Vulcans or even better, shipboard mounted GAU-8's (Goalkeeper), that would give these parasites something special to think about!
    Last edited by KavKav; 23rd April 2017 at 08:28.

  5. #5
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34095843

    Doesn't always work out well for the contractors, and the pirates here look like the bosses!

  6. #6
    You have to remember that Somali pirates are desperate and only paid something like $200 a pop to hijack the ship. I think it would take a certain mentality to be ok with killing someone like that.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  7. #7
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    sussex uk
    Posts
    15,483
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystery Scott View Post
    You have to remember that Somali pirates are desperate and only paid something like $200 a pop to hijack the ship. I think it would take a certain mentality to be ok with killing someone like that.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

    so if they were paid more?...........

  8. #8
    Master -Ally-'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Eurabia
    Posts
    8,329
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystery Scott View Post
    You have to remember that Somali pirates are desperate and only paid something like $200 a pop to hijack the ship. I think it would take a certain mentality to be ok with killing someone like that.
    Whats the alternative ?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by tommyboy View Post
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34095843

    Doesn't always work out well for the contractors, and the pirates here look like the bosses!
    £3k a month? Doesn't seem much for such a risky line of work

  10. #10
    Master reggie747's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    The Mersey Riviera
    Posts
    7,184
    Quote Originally Posted by Brighty View Post
    £3k a month? Doesn't seem much for such a risky line of work
    And all the dead pirates you can eat of course

  11. #11
    Master draftsmann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Malta and sometimes bits of Brit
    Posts
    5,043
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystery Scott View Post
    You have to remember that Somali pirates are desperate and only paid something like $200 a pop to hijack the ship. I think it would take a certain mentality to be ok with killing someone like that.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
    I don't think there's a meaningful reply to this that can be given outside the BP.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by -Ally- View Post
    Whats the alternative ?
    This was a thread saying it looked fun. I'm not arguing that it isn't necessary I'm saying I wouldn't want to do it.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  13. #13
    Master IAmATeaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    NW London
    Posts
    4,757
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystery Scott View Post
    You have to remember that Somali pirates are desperate and only paid something like $200 a pop to hijack the ship. I think it would take a certain mentality to be ok with killing someone like that.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
    Are they desperate or are they much like the rest of the world after a quick buck?

  14. #14
    Master KavKav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Warwickshire.
    Posts
    7,039
    Blog Entries
    5
    Were I confronted by a bunch of these characters in a small boat firing their AK-47's up at me, ask me if I would return fire with what heavy weaponry I had available or would I ponder moral issues and think slowly and deeply about the 'yuman rites' of this shower trying to kill me?
    A coconut for the first correct answer!

  15. #15
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    5,870
    Quote Originally Posted by KavKav View Post
    Were I confronted by a bunch of these characters in a small boat firing their AK-47's up at me, ask me if I would return fire with what heavy weaponry I had available or would I ponder moral issues and think slowly and deeply about the 'yuman rites' of this shower trying to kill me?
    A coconut for the first correct answer!
    You would return fire with whatever heavy weaponry you had available.
    Please raffle the coconut for the fundraiser.

  16. #16
    Master robcuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Haarlem, NL
    Posts
    2,648
    Quote Originally Posted by -Ally- View Post
    That would be much fun.
    Seriously?

    I'd be more concerned about the total lack of professional skills shown by the operatives in this film.

    The arc of fire for the main "shooter" includes the lower deck and his oppo!

    I think it safe to say his Special Ops experience is restricted to Call of Duty.

  17. #17
    Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    southampton
    Posts
    1,196
    does look fun. Imagine the children asking where daddy is and what's for dinner at the end of the day. Hilarious.

  18. #18
    Master KavKav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Warwickshire.
    Posts
    7,039
    Blog Entries
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by MakeColdplayHistory View Post
    You would return fire with whatever heavy weaponry you had available.
    Please raffle the coconut for the fundraiser.
    CORRECT my man! Correctamundo and I will organise a coconut to be auctioned for the fundraiser as per your generous and innovative proposal. Congrats on being the first to submit the correct answer!
    Last edited by KavKav; 23rd April 2017 at 11:13.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by IAmATeaf View Post
    Are they desperate or are they much like the rest of the world after a quick buck?
    Only talked to two people with intimate knowledge of it (mates an exec at a massive shipping company and a marine who was deployed there) and they both say its desperation. Somalia isn't exactly a country where the poor have opportunity. I believe that to make the hunt 'fun' you have to look at who is recruiting them and brokering the return of the ships rather than those who are treated as cannon fodder.

    Christ I sound like a hippy, I'm not, I'm massively capitalist. However, a recent trip to India opened my eyes to the true exploitation of those with nothing and having had a rather fortunate 32 years on this earth (own a well performing company, partner in a new consultancy, own a house outright, girlfriend's a good person and a lawyer, so she's basically a unicorn), it was a proper reality check as to how these things aren't all black and white.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  20. #20
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    sussex uk
    Posts
    15,483
    Blog Entries
    1
    I think they are mostly black.

  21. #21
    Master KavKav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Warwickshire.
    Posts
    7,039
    Blog Entries
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystery Scott View Post
    Only talked to two people with intimate knowledge of it (mates an exec at a massive shipping company and a marine who was deployed there) and they both say its desperation. Somalia isn't exactly a country where the poor have opportunity. I believe that to make the hunt 'fun' you have to look at who is recruiting them and brokering the return of the ships rather than those who are treated as cannon fodder.

    Christ I sound like a hippy, I'm not, I'm massively capitalist. However, a recent trip to India opened my eyes to the true exploitation of those with nothing and having had a rather fortunate 32 years on this earth (own a well performing company, partner in a new consultancy, own a house outright, girlfriend's a good person and a lawyer, so she's basically a unicorn), it was a proper reality check as to how these things aren't all black and white.

    You make valid points and while I accept and sympathise that desperate men will do desperate things, if I am being fired upon, I will return fire with all means at my disposal.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
    Last edited by KavKav; 23rd April 2017 at 11:19.

  22. #22
    Master Alansmithee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Burscough, UK
    Posts
    9,573
    Quote Originally Posted by IAmATeaf View Post
    Are they desperate or are they much like the rest of the world after a quick buck?
    Both?

    The average salary in Somalia is $200 - so a few raids a month and by local standards you are earning a lot of money.

    Obviously you have to live to spend it...

  23. #23
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cambridgeshire
    Posts
    16,145
    Just wondering on the legality of being able to fire on the pirates? I guess it comes under self defence, are there rules of engagement? I'm not questioning the action, go for it as far as I'm concerned, just curious as to if it's legal to have a free for all out there.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  24. #24
    Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Mendips
    Posts
    3,159
    Quote Originally Posted by KavKav View Post
    Were I confronted by a bunch of these characters in a small boat firing their AK-47's up at me, ask me if I would return fire with what heavy weaponry I had available or would I ponder moral issues and think slowly and deeply about the 'yuman rites' of this shower trying to kill me?
    A coconut for the first correct answer!
    One would hope that you'd have taken it into account before deciding to go on pirate patrol.

  25. #25
    Master draftsmann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Malta and sometimes bits of Brit
    Posts
    5,043
    Quote Originally Posted by hafle View Post
    One would hope that you'd have taken it into account before deciding to go on pirate patrol.
    You'd prefer that owners, crew and passengers on vessels going about lawfully be left to the pirates?

  26. #26
    Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Mendips
    Posts
    3,159
    Quote Originally Posted by draftsmann View Post
    You'd prefer that owners, crew and passengers on vessels going about lawfully be left to the pirates?
    No idea how you came to that conclusion. I'm saying that one would hope that someone stationed on a boat in a protection role, such as those being discussed in this thread, would have given consideration to the morality etc of what the job will entail before accepting it. If someone felt there was a moral argument against shooting Somalian pirates, then I doubt they'd have accepted a job where the core function would be to do just that when the need arose.

  27. #27
    Master KavKav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Warwickshire.
    Posts
    7,039
    Blog Entries
    5
    If Somali pirates approach a ship with a view to taking control of that ship with the use of lethal weapons to assist their cause, they can hardly complain if lethal force is used against them!

  28. #28
    Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Mendips
    Posts
    3,159
    Quote Originally Posted by KavKav View Post
    If Somali pirates approach a ship with a view to taking control of that ship with the use of lethal weapons to assist their cause, they can hardly complain if lethal force is used against them!
    Indeed, and I don't think anyone has suggested otherwise.

  29. #29
    Master kungfugerbil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Whitby (not the one in Ontario)
    Posts
    6,838
    Quote Originally Posted by robcuk View Post
    The arc of fire for the main "shooter" includes the lower deck and his oppo!
    I watched it and that was the very first thing I thought of :)

  30. #30
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    15,914
    I know a ship's captain quite well and he told me that areas around Indonesia were much more dangerous than the gulf. The pirates are wealthier and much more heavily armed.

  31. #31
    Grand Master Velorum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    .
    Posts
    14,132
    I doubt that I would find it fun, I would be more likely to be suffering from a panic attack. Mind you, despite being a fairly good shot on the range when we were allowed to do such things, armed combat is hardly my trade so I guess that's understandable to a degree.

    I guess that things are unlikely to improve until the place they come from has some kind of functional government and social structure. Not sure when that's likely to be.

    In the meantime, those opting for the pirate route are adults and as such accountable for their actions. They have no cause for complaint if they are shot are blown up whilst about their business. Mind you, I'm not sure that they have complained - its more observers from afar and the comfort of their sofas......

    Anyway, if I were working on a ship passing through these are any similar waters I would be more than happy for security staff on board to do whatever they felt necessary to stop pirates getting on board. Blast away.

  32. #32
    Master ordo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    1,020
    Jesus. People are arguing whether this video is alright or not from legal and moral points of view. No wonder you have terrorist attacks over there in the UK.

    You must not have seen those pirate skiffs BLOWN OUT (literally) by the Russian Navy a few years ago. They used bazookas, machine guns, assault rifles on those suckers and no one complained a thing. They hardly gave a damn either.

    Being poor is not an excuse to do bad things to people or the environment. Regardless of the situation.

    The people that are doing these things are either lazy or unintelligent. This narrows down their options in life.

    I'm sure there are plenty of people in Somalia having jobs, working for a living... They probably can't afford a trip to the Bahamas but at least no one gets to shoot at them at the "office".

    Life can be harsh in such countries but people CAN survive just as how they've always survived.

  33. #33
    Master blackal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Scottish Borders
    Posts
    9,534
    Quote Originally Posted by -Ally- View Post
    Whats the alternative ?

    If Somalian Pirates attack a ship- owned or chartered to a UK company, Registered in UK, or with any UK crew onboard...............

    1,500 Somalians and their families (naturalised UK citizens or not) - are rounded up, assets siezed - and they are shipped back to Somalia (using their assets to pay the fares).

    every time.

    The following year - a kind of "Index-linking" should be applied - and 2,000 should be exported on each occasion.

    And so on..................

    If every country adopts this (non-violent) response - pretty soon all Somalians will be back in Somalia.

    (It has been asked of me before - "What good would that do?" )

    What harm would it do????

    Piracy was ignored for decades while people and governments viewed it as a kind of "hazard of being a seafarer"...................... Air travel got much more attention.

  34. #34
    Master draftsmann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Malta and sometimes bits of Brit
    Posts
    5,043
    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    If Somalian Pirates attack a ship- owned or chartered to a UK company, Registered in UK, or with any UK crew onboard...............

    1,500 Somalians and their families (naturalised UK citizens or not) - are rounded up, assets siezed - and they are shipped back to Somalia (using their assets to pay the fares).

    every time.

    The following year - a kind of "Index-linking" should be applied - and 2,000 should be exported on each occasion.

    And so on..................

    If every country adopts this (non-violent) response - pretty soon all Somalians will be back in Somalia.

    (It has been asked of me before - "What good would that do?" )

    What harm would it do????

    Piracy was ignored for decades while people and governments viewed it as a kind of "hazard of being a seafarer"...................... Air travel got much more attention.
    So you'd punish the innocent for the actions of the pirates? Certainly "non violent" and probably "non quite a lot of other things besides". Intelligent being one of them.

  35. #35
    Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Birmingham
    Posts
    3,126
    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    If Somalian Pirates attack a ship- owned or chartered to a UK company, Registered in UK, or with any UK crew onboard...............

    1,500 Somalians and their families (naturalised UK citizens or not) - are rounded up, assets siezed - and they are shipped back to Somalia (using their assets to pay the fares).

    every time.

    The following year - a kind of "Index-linking" should be applied - and 2,000 should be exported on each occasion.

    And so on..................

    If every country adopts this (non-violent) response - pretty soon all Somalians will be back in Somalia.

    (It has been asked of me before - "What good would that do?" )

    What harm would it do????

    Piracy was ignored for decades while people and governments viewed it as a kind of "hazard of being a seafarer"...................... Air travel got much more attention.
    So ship back a lot of disenfranchised Somalis who had the sense to get out who then have no alternative but to turn to crime? Genius. This round up/burn down their village of those with a notional link to the perpetrator approach has been tried before elsewhere, all over Europe. It didn't work long term.

  36. #36
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cambridgeshire
    Posts
    16,145
    A bit of a generalisation, but a Met Policeman friend of mine said that the Somali criminal population in London are the nastiest, ruthless, horrible people he has ever had to deal with.

  37. #37
    Grand Master VDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Whitehole
    Posts
    18,967
    Shooting people in the boat from elevated position using semi and full auto bursts. Absolutely terrible. May be these poor souls were after supplies or wanted to ask for directions?
    Fas est ab hoste doceri

  38. #38
    Master draftsmann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Malta and sometimes bits of Brit
    Posts
    5,043
    Quote Originally Posted by VDG View Post
    Shooting people in the boat from elevated position using semi and full auto bursts. Absolutely terrible. May be these poor souls were after supplies or wanted to ask for directions?
    Or to invite those onboard to looky looky at their bargains for sale.

  39. #39
    Craftsman mikiejack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Barnsley, Yorkshire
    Posts
    762
    Quote Originally Posted by VDG View Post
    Shooting people in the boat from elevated position using semi and full auto bursts. Absolutely terrible. May be these poor souls were after supplies or wanted to ask for directions?
    The only part of this thread which I've enjoyed.

  40. #40
    Grand Master VDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Whitehole
    Posts
    18,967
    I always aim to please.
    Fas est ab hoste doceri

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    If Somalian Pirates attack a ship- owned or chartered to a UK company, Registered in UK, or with any UK crew onboard...............

    1,500 Somalians and their families (naturalised UK citizens or not) - are rounded up, assets siezed - and they are shipped back to Somalia (using their assets to pay the fares).

    every time.

    The following year - a kind of "Index-linking" should be applied - and 2,000 should be exported on each occasion.

    And so on..................

    If every country adopts this (non-violent) response - pretty soon all Somalians will be back in Somalia.

    (It has been asked of me before - "What good would that do?" )

    What harm would it do????

    Piracy was ignored for decades while people and governments viewed it as a kind of "hazard of being a seafarer"...................... Air travel got much more attention.
    Unless it's their families being deported, not some random Somalis, why should they care?

  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    If Somalian Pirates attack a ship- owned or chartered to a UK company, Registered in UK, or with any UK crew onboard...............

    1,500 Somalians and their families (naturalised UK citizens or not) - are rounded up, assets siezed - and they are shipped back to Somalia (using their assets to pay the fares).

    every time.

    The following year - a kind of "Index-linking" should be applied - and 2,000 should be exported on each occasion.

    And so on..................

    If every country adopts this (non-violent) response - pretty soon all Somalians will be back in Somalia.

    (It has been asked of me before - "What good would that do?" )

    What harm would it do????

    Piracy was ignored for decades while people and governments viewed it as a kind of "hazard of being a seafarer"...................... Air travel got much more attention.
    I think that any time you have to use the expression 'round up' to refer to arbitrarily chosen members of a wider group, you really have to question your own humanity.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  43. #43

    Somali Pirates vs Ship Private Security

    Not saying don't return fire, just saying the ethos in which it has been presented here is overly simplistic and quite distasteful to me.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  44. #44
    On a different note; why don't the pirates have RPG's ? Then send in a lad with a message "Give us large bags of wonga, or we make many nasty, burning holes in the side of your big boat" ??

  45. #45
    Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    West Yorks
    Posts
    1,262
    Quote Originally Posted by Gren View Post
    On a different note; why don't the pirates have RPG's ? Then send in a lad with a message "Give us large bags of wonga, or we make many nasty, burning holes in the side of your big boat" ??
    This will be the plan just as soon as they can buy the hardware.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by VDG View Post
    Shooting people in the boat from elevated position using semi and full auto bursts. Absolutely terrible. May be these poor souls were after supplies or wanted to ask for directions?

    Far more economical to spot shoot them as they come up the ladder.

  46. #46
    Master KavKav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Warwickshire.
    Posts
    7,039
    Blog Entries
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by MCFastybloke View Post
    This will be the plan just as soon as they can buy the hardware.

    - - - Updated - - -




    Far more economical to spot shoot them as they come up the ladder.
    No no no Mr MCFastybloke, how can you even contemplate that? Those poor armed and innocent souls may be coming up the ladder to ask for directions!

  47. #47
    If you watch carefully, the first three or four shots the camera guy fires hit the metal railing he's leaning on - he should probably pay better attention to his aim than his GoPro.

  48. #48
    Master
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    By the TOLL Road
    Posts
    4,987
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    Just wondering on the legality of being able to fire on the pirates? I guess it comes under self defence, are there rules of engagement? I'm not questioning the action, go for it as far as I'm concerned, just curious as to if it's legal to have a free for all out there.

    It's that far out to sea who is going to enforce the law, which government is responsible, and who really cares. If it were me doing the shooting and killing I would not worry about being bought to book. I would think the Captain of the ship is the law.

  49. #49
    Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    West Yorks
    Posts
    1,262
    Quote Originally Posted by KavKav View Post
    No no no Mr MCFastybloke, how can you even contemplate that? Those poor armed and innocent souls may be coming up the ladder to ask for directions!
    Aye directions straight to the cash.

  50. #50

    Hello

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    A bit of a generalisation, but a Met Policeman friend of mine said that the Somali criminal population in London are the nastiest, ruthless, horrible people he has ever had to deal with.
    A lot worse than the Yardies. The clan mentality is also a factor and they just don't care about the consequences of their actions, serious injury to others, death, and being locked up.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Do Not Sell My Personal Information