If you could turn back time. Career/Life Advice

[-Ally-]

Hi guys,

Hoping to take advantage of the wisdom of some of the older members here. A bit weird perhaps but I genuinely find myself at a point in life with no real objective or direction.

Imagine you are 27 years old again, just graduated university and have no real commitments and have your full health and a few quid in the bank. What would you have done with yourself knowing then what you know now etc.


More context:
I suppose a bit more context would help.

I left school and completed an apprenticeship and a few years work thereafter (electrician), got bored and binned it off and went to uni. Thats now almost completed but I have absolutely no enthusiasm for the subject (electrical engineering) and grad jobs only pay 25k and expect you to jump through far too many hoops. I do have a job offer doing estimating which would pay considerably better but I imagine that would bore me to death.

Always dreamed of being a fast-jet pilot but that was a non-starter due to asthma at an early age. Now it's too late anyway. Nothing beyond that excites me, although I have thought of a military career as an officer but that's probably not what it used to be either. Any military officers care to share their own experiences feel free to PM me.

Living with my partner of 6 years but no financial ties to the house, I have my own which has no mortgage and is rented out. So free in that respect, kinda.

I'm often told I'm very lucky but I don't feel it at all.

Genuinely not sure if I'm depressed.

[Brighty]

Not much help for you, but wish i'd followed through with joining the navy after uni 20yrs ago. Also wish i'd mortgaged myself up to the max and bought as many houses here as possible after the 2007 plumet, cross rail has sent prices silly here now, could have retired

[11erv]

100% and absolutely no doubt about it in my mind, I would focus on the words "have your full health".

[-Ally-]

deleted.

[Dave+63]

Travel - see the world before you settle down and have kids. I did this, and glad I did as don't get to travel much for pleasure these days

This^^^

If you're gonna have kids, have them early. I see all my old school chums with grown up kids, getting their lives back, and there's me, 41 with a 6 and a 4yr old, i'll be nearly dead by the time i got shot of these little blighters

Not this^^^ *

100% and absolutely no doubt about it in my mind, I would focus on the words "have your full health".

This^^

All IMHO of course.

* There are obviously pros and cons to having children both earlier and later in life.

[mtagrant]

Travel - see the world before you settle down and have kids. I did this, and glad I did as don't get to travel much for pleasure these days

[Brighty]

If you're gonna have kids, have them early. I see all my old school chums with grown up kids, getting their lives back, and there's me, 41 with a 6 and a 4yr old, i'll be nearly dead by the time i got shot of these little blighters

[Wallasey Runner]

If you're gonna have kids, have them early. I see all my old school chums with grown up kids, getting their lives back, and there's me, 41 with a 6 and a 4yr old, i'll be nearly dead by the time i got shot of these little blighters

You will be lucky to get rid of them at all in the current climate. My kids are 24 and 22 - I keep reminding them that I left home, had my first home and and mortgage at 23. I disagree with kids at an early age, live your life, see the world, kids in your early to mid 30s is fine.

Have a five to ten year blast, sow your wild oats (as people used to say 40 years ago) then look to settle down, turn into a boring old fart and argue with other boring old farts on a watch forum.

[kaiserphoenix]

You will be lucky to get rid of them at all in the current climate. My kids are 24 and 22 - I keep reminding them that I left home, had my first home and and mortgage at 23. I disagree with kids at an early age, live your life, see the world, kids in your early to mid 30s is fine.

Have a five to ten year blast, sow your wild oats (as people used to say 40 years ago) then look to settle down, turn into a boring old fart and argue with other boring old farts on a watch forum.

The only problem is when you were 23 one could realistically buy a house. This day and age? house price / salary multiples are just insane. Different times means different progression.


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[Wallasey Runner]

The only problem is when you were 23 one could realistically buy a house. This day and age? house price / salary multiples are just insane. Different times means different progression.


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I totally agree. I was a Civil Servant and in my day people could get a 2.5 times salary mortgage with a 5% deposit and buy a flat or a small house on a single wage and if they met someone, sell both properties and buy a semi detached and the housing ladder climb started.

No chance these days. Bank of mum and dad or wait for some inheritance - sad, but true?

[GIB984]

The world is your oyster yet understably no clear direction lies ahead which I can understand is as daunting as feeling stuck in a hellhole. What I wouldn't recommend is a knee jerk reaction in any direction - the mere fact that you're asking the question acknowledges your level of awareness of your situation and that won't go away unaddressed.

Just, as quite appropriate, given the vehicle for our discussion:

....... give it time.

I'm sure your next direction in life will come to you.

All the genuine very best.

[Alansmithee]

If you're gonna have kids, have them early. I see all my old school chums with grown up kids, getting their lives back, and there's me, 41 with a 6 and a 4yr old, i'll be nearly dead by the time i got shot of these little blighters

It's funny how different generations look at this - when my best man announced at 41 he was having his first child, my father's (78) rather uncalled for response was 'what do you want to f**k around with kids at your age?"

At 41 I've got three clear groups of friends:

* Had early, Kids now in their 20s - hurrah - holidays, parties!
* No kids, no interest
* Had late, The wife wanted one - shit, I'm never going to retire...

[bobbee]

It's funny how different generations look at this - when my best man announced at 41 he was having his first child, my father's (78) rather uncalled for response was 'what do you want to fuck around with kids at your age?"

At 41 I've got three clear groups of friends:

* Had early, Kids now in their 20s - hurrah - holidays, parties!
* No kids, no interest
* Had late, The wife wanted one - shit, I'm never going to retire...

We were "late starters", first child at 39, second at 44. Wifey was 37/42. We had tried for 9 or 10 years with no luck and had resigned ourselves to being childless.
Our joy at the surprises knew no bounds, and both (boy and girl respectively) are treasured.

I will always be thankful for my chances at fatherhood, no matter how late it seemed to others, as they do not know the circumstances.

[mtagrant]

What is important to you - as in position do you want to be in in 10-20 years?

Do you want to have a lot more cash, or is money not important to you?
Do you want to have achieved something (something personal, outside work)?
Do you want to be an expert in something (have a career, but can't choose which)?
Would you set up your own business?

[comdiver]

Become a commercial diver, work all over the world, earn loads of money, get married, kids, house etc. Work all over the world, spend loads of money, get divorced, lose said wife, kids, house etc then repeat.
Oh hang on that's my career

[hafle]

Become a commercial diver, work all over the world, earn loads of money, get married, kids, house etc. Work all over the world, spend loads of money, get divorced, lose said wife, kids, house etc then repeat.
Oh hang on that's my career

I'm only a year older than Ally, but in the same boat. My finals are in less than a month, and courtesy of the teaching at uni, a job in a field related to my degree sounds like it will be dull as ditch water. Doesn't help that I like working with my hands, the idea of being sat behind a desk is depressing. Funnily enough, becoming a professional diver is something I've been considering over the past handful of months. Plenty of options for training and obtaining initial qualifications within London.

[number2]

Become a commercial diver, work all over the world, earn loads of money, get married, kids, house etc. Work all over the world, spend loads of money, get divorced, lose said wife, kids, house etc then repeat.
Oh hang on that's my career

Other than job title this seems to apply to me as well, my advice to me at 20 would have been,
'when you think you're making the right choice, go and do the exact opposite'!

[drhexagon]

I worked in the family business after leaving school and completed my undergraduate studies while continuing to work there until the end of last year. I also completed my MSc last year and I am now waiting to start a role in Network Engineering at BT. Personally, I didn't think it was possible for me to land that role as it pays far above the average for a graduate job but it is achievable if you can narrow your focus and just go for it.

From what you say, you have no financial burden such as a mortgage so in the grand scheme of things, £25k on its own is a reasonable wage. I recommend completing your current course and then having a look a postgraduate study. I was not enamoured by my undergraduate degree and struggled to complete it as I lacked the enthusiasm for it.

[Velorum]

I should have stopped doing things that were detrimental to my long term health. Running buggered my knees and excessive alcohol consumption did the same to my internal organs.

I should have divorced my first wife before she took all of my money as opposed to after the event and then remained single.

Had I done both of these I suspect that I would not now be mistaken for an OAP at the barbers.

In any event, I cant read the thread title without thinking of Cher in her underwear....

[-Ally-]

I should have divorced my first wife before she took all of my money as opposed to after the event and then remained single.

Had I done both of these I suspect that I would not now be mistaken for an OAP at the barbers.

You sound like my dad,with respect to both points!

He's 65 now but has been enjoying pensioner rates at the barber for 10years.

[alfat33]

What does your partner want to do?

Me and my wife never really had a plan, but I feel we've done a lot more together (travelling, different jobs/starting a business, homes, mad fun stuff, kids) than I ever would have done on my own.

[-Ally-]

Thanks for all the replies so far guys.

To answer some questions:

Travel-Would be possible but nobody to do it with and don't fancy it alone.

House - Could afford to move anywhere in the U.K. so no issue there but beside better weather I don't have any attraction to London or the South.

Own business- Again financially feasible but nothing inspires me and I don't think sinking cash into anything I'm not mad on would be wise.

Kids- No.

Partner - Stable and well paid job, not very ambitious and quite content with the 9-5.

Forces Career - My only real passion is aviation so the RAF would be the natural choice, I've also spent the last couple of years in the UAS so have decent exposure to it. Pilot is out and EngO would be the natural choice but I suspect that would be equivalent to a civvy job but with the added disadvantage of lifestyle restrictions. I've done test in advance/CBAT and I'm competitive for all Officer specialisms pretty much. The RN appeals too as it would be more likely to see me travel. Ultimately though I think a forces career would be at the sacrifice of my relationship.

Is such confusion normal

[verv]

Ultimately though I think a forces career would be at the sacrifice of my relationship.

Your career will probably last until you're 70.
Will the relationship?

[-Ally-]

Your career will probably last until you're 70.

Not if I can help it it won't. My dad retired at 55 and I hope to be able to do the same.

Your career will probably last until you're 70.
Will the relationship?

Well I didn't think I'd manage 6 years but I've surprised even myself.

[Wallasey Runner]

My dad retired at 55 and I hope to be able to do the same.

That is a good plan. After 35 years in the Civil Service good old Dave and George decided that they wanted rid of 10,000 of us in our Department alone, so I took early retirement at 51 and it was the best thing that I ever did.

Now in my 5th year since leaving and haven't even thought about getting another job. I did have an interview once to be a Postie, but only made the reserve list.

I certainly don't miss getting up at silly o'clock and the early morning commute.

[alfat33]

Well I didn't think I'd manage 6 years but I've surprised even myself.

It sounds like that's what you've got to get sorted out.

[guinea]

Don't bother with the military unless you have a passion for it. The technical skills you learn there can be decades old and might not lead to a good job back in civvy street. There are dozens of charities helping ex-forces folk back to real work for a reason.

Decide if you want to chase money or not. That will lead to a different answer.

I chose not to chase money initially, but look back and think I made a mistake. I ended up in IT and earn what most would consider a good salary, but I do think if I'd only known about finance and made the same success I'd now be a millionaire many times over.

Get your degree, get a good mark and think about your next plan. You could go work in financial services as a grad if your maths skills are hot and you're at a good uni. A maths grad I know started at 45k and was at 60k in their first year. You could also think of getting into IT. Developers in the right industries get paid a lot. An IT director/Head of position is attainable for the right minded person in 8 or so years. That's a 6 figure salary.

I give a lot of masterclasses to grads as part of my job. When asked how to have a successful career my answer is usually something along the lines of find something you like that nobody else does, get good at it and you'll be overpaid.

Good luck.

[Argee1977]

Don't bother with the military unless you have a passion for it. The technical skills you learn there can be decades old and might not lead to a good job back in civvy street. There are dozens of charities helping ex-forces folk back to real work for a reason.

Decide if you want to chase money or not. That will lead to a different answer.

I chose not to chase money initially, but look back and think I made a mistake. I ended up in IT and earn what most would consider a good salary, but I do think if I'd only known about finance and made the same success I'd now be a millionaire many times over.

Get your degree, get a good mark and think about your next plan. You could go work in financial services as a grad if your maths skills are hot and you're at a good uni. A maths grad I know started at 45k and was at 60k in their first year. You could also think of getting into IT. Developers in the right industries get paid a lot. An IT director/Head of position is attainable for the right minded person in 8 or so years. That's a 6 figure salary.

I give a lot of masterclasses to grads as part of my job. When asked how to have a successful career my answer is usually something along the lines of find something you like that nobody else does, get good at it and you'll be overpaid.

Good luck.

Can't really agree with that, if he goes into the RAF/FAA he'll build on what he has and get a lot of good training on things that you wouldn't see in the civilian sector.

[Sweepinghand]

Property renovation

If you have money to start with it could really mortgage why not try some renovation?

You're own boss
Clearly you are hands on with your work study etc

You can't chase a dream if you don't have one


I think if you stay as you are then look at who you wish to work for
What brands impress?
Or is it all about the money

Love your girl
Treat her right
Depression is crippling and I admire you even mentioned the word


People try and make you feel guilty at times as they think you have it all
I've gone through it
"Nice car, got your own house..."
what? So being lovely ir upset isn't allowed then?

Not going to get all self help but try and look at what makes you smile

For me now it's about giving - time - volunteering etc
I hate my rat race job

Stay well and ask for help if you need it son

[series5]

I did an engineering degree and started out with a modest salary. I worked hard and over a thirty year period I got myself up to a six figure annual salary and a lifestyle to go with it.

Only then did it become boring and I noticed that my management realised how expensive and old I was and, after a certain amount of negotiation, we parted company and I bought a franchise business.

Having never run a business myself before a franchise was a good way to go. While fine at first, I realised that the skills that I had from engineering together with close liaison with the sales people, meant that i could apply myself to business quite easily and make things work very well. Looking back, taking a franchise was a good way to establish myself but is also a tight noose once up and running.

Time will come when contract renewal is necessary. Will a renewal take place? Probably not. Retirement or partial retirement will probably follow because we have saved enough over the years to make this possible.

We have a nice house, financial security and, most importantly, health and happiness. The last two cannot be purchased and trump anything in the bank. We also have the money to make choices, limited ones yes, but reasonable ones so money has some value.

If I had my time again I may consider going it alone far earlier. I didn't trust my own capabilities and was scared to make the leap. I would also not take a franchise route again. Rocky though going it totally alone is, with common sense and some decent advice it is possible. However, I see a lot of people in business who have no business or common sense whatsoever and can see a car crash waiting to happen.

If I was young again, and our son is doing an engineering degree right now, my advice would be to stick at getting a qualification. A degree is a door to a vocational rung on a ladder that lesser qualifications simply dot get to unlock. An engineering degree doesn't limit you to being an engineer. It's a golden key to a wide range of stuff.
Get your qualification, see some of the world if you want to do so - perhaps, like I did, with the company paying for most of it, and get yourself some commercial and management experience. It teaches you to think and behave in certain ways and this will pay dividends for your career later. Make your mistakes, learn your lessons, grow your knowledge at somebody else's expense and then use these skills to your own advantage afterwards.

Keep your options open now, get don't close any doors and then evolve your life. You only get one go and it doesn't have to be set in stone right from the start.

[TimeThoughts]

One small change I would make would have cost me nothing and gave me major gains...

After college (in the late 1990s) I rented here and there with other blokes for about five years, I then worked offshore, worked as an ex pat and was generally very mobile for 5 years, so I purchased my first house 10years after leaving college. What I should have done was...

When I graduated borrow £20k off my old man and buy a small 2 or 3 bed house in a city or town in an affordable neighbourhood.

If I had done that, I could have rented a room whilst I lived there (I'm easy going)(or rented the entire house whilst I travelled). Had I done that I'd now have a rental property fully owned that I could view to sale to fund my kids college.

SO in summary, renting as a young professional is a terrible waste if you have any option at all to purchase.

[pacifichrono]

Ally,

You initiated this thread in hopes of identifying some direction to take in your life. You provided some good background and even added that you may be depressed.

Numerous fellow members from wide backgrounds and ages have responded with their thoughts on how you might proceed, given your particular circumstances. You have rejected every single idea presented to you. Having re-read this thread a second time, I would submit that you are either in a far more depressed state than you realize, or you are being disingenuous with us, either consciously or subconsciously.

Regardless, I would urge you to make an appointment with a respected psychologist in your area. You mention that money is not an issue, so what do you have to lose? The odds that the third next post here will suddenly solve your career problems is remote, at best.

With sincere best wishes, Tom

Couple footnotes:
1) You state you have a partner of six years with whom you live (in your partner's house?). However, your response to 'travel' is that there is no one to travel with. Am I misreading this, or is there a major life issue at play here?
2) You've written several times about military. At age 27 a military officer career is not a realistic option, especially for someone with undefined direction.

[-Ally-]

Not true. Some of the comments here have really helped.

Property renovation is one good idea that I've thought about and may relook, perhaps alongside a 9-5.

There's nothing disingenuous here I can assure you.

1) Correct, of course we enjoy holidays together but circumstances don't allow for extending travel together. No relationship issues what so ever. Apart from the fact my partner is against me offing to join the military.
2) Why is military a non-starter at 27 ? They take up to 33years old here.

[geoffcotton]

Your in a fantastic position Ally.

I would set up a good fish and chip shop in the right area. In ten years time you will be minted.

All my mates that went to Uni got good engineering positions and did ok, the few that went down the fish and chip route are minted.

[series5]

Your in a fantastic position Ally.

I would set up a good fish and chip shop in the right area. In ten years time you will be minted.

All my mates that went to Uni got good engineering positions and did ok, the few that went down the fish and chip route are minted.

.... And smell of fish and chips.

[bubi]

If you like aviation, get involved in aviation.
Get a pilot licence and fly rich people fancy places without necessarilt bombs.
Need motivation? Get into rescue missions.
Fly a chopper!

[yumma]

Great post OP!

I must confess I am having similar mid-life confusions after leaving School at 16, going to college to train as a Surveyor and here I am at 42 still a Surveyor. So too have many friends; my Police Officer mate has just re-trained to become an Electrician. I think this is perfectly natural.

A few years ago, I left a consultancy to work in a Local Authority and despite the less stressful workload the environment can be a bit depressing at times, this allied with personal pressures led to me being diagnoses with depression last year; which thankfully I am over now.

I always envied my Dad when he was working, he had a working life more varied than I could ever imagine; but things were different back then, he said he could walk out of one job on Friday and have a new job lined up the following week.

Another small strategy I have is that a few years back I sought a hobby job on the side and trained as a Pilates Instructor, so now I work a full week but teach two classes per week; teaching is very fulfilling and rewarding, plus you get to do something you enjoy doing and are getting paid for it. Also in the summer I book a week off work as holiday and work at Festivals as 'Site Crew', again great fun and I can disengage my brain and erect barriers, carry straw bales, build stages, put out chairs and tables, push stuck Ice Cream vans out of a muddy field, you name it; bloody good fun it is too! I also put my name down for 'Election Duties' working as a 'Poll Clerk' in my local Polling Stations; two coming up this year with the County Election on 4th May followed by the General Election soon after. Again just a welcome distraction from the day job. Sometimes a small change and distraction is all you need; maybe just a hobby; maybe just someone to have a good chat to?

Maybe give something else a try; if you don't like that try something else, if that doesn't work go back to what you know; there is no shame in reversion. Another of my friends couldn't wait to leave the Army, after 18 months of Civvy life he couldn't wait to get back into the Army.

The most important thing in all of this is you. You only get one life so live it to the full, and as already mentioned, in full health. I wish you all the very best.

[Fschwep]

If you love aviation, you can always become a private pilot or a glider pilot. Or become a balloon pilot, way more adventurous than flying planes (more complicated too, but hey...). It happened to me, have been doing it for 31 years while mostly earning my living otherwise, and it has not been boring to say the least. That still leaves the question about what to do for work. ;-)

[MikeB687]

Agree with some of the above, flying is your passion, if you can find an income in aircraft/flying you'll enjoy going to work.

If you can't get into fast jets try racing motorbikes, I've never flown jets but have raced bikes (wish I started earlier) & I'm told by those who've done both it's the closest you can get to the buzz.

[Hewjardon]

Two best pieces of advice I was ever given;
'protect your anonymity' (hard in this facebook-powered day and age)
&
'you make your own PR'

And its not just 'travel', its 'as much as humanly possible' before kids (new dad at 42, and it rocks) & mortgage.

[Jdh1]

You talk about grad jobs only paying £25k a year and having to jump through hoops for that. Those hoops never go away and although the pay does rise, only a tiny proportion of careers lead to a situation where the financial rewards compensate for the mortgage placed on your life. And even then, only if you are of a certain mindset. Employer and user are to be found together in the thesaurus for a reason.

I was a couple of years older than you when I realised that employment wasn't for me. Unlike you though, I had no real skills to fall back on. That turned out to an advantage in that it forced me into avoiding a trap which I see a lot of people fall into - they get involved in a business or enterprise which requires them to be 'hands on'. So their customers and clients become their employers. The one piece of advice I'd give you (should you decide to go it alone) is to work towards something where there is no direct correlation between the personal time you put in and the rewards you take out.

[MarkO]

The one piece of advice I'd give you (should you decide to go it alone) is to work towards something where there is no direct correlation between the personal time you put in and the rewards you take out.

I've been self employed nearly my whole career and there has always been a correlation between effort in and reward out .

The only thing that fits this is lottery win, marrying a Kardashian or moving to Essex and joining TOWIE.

[Itsguy]

Use your ISA allowance and learn about compound interest.

I certainly wish I could mail that advice back 20 years!

[golf]

Listened to my maths teacher in 1985!
He told me to learn as much about computers as possible as they are the future!
Looking back I should have listened 😀

[-Ally-]

I'm really confused at where graduates outside law and banking earn so much.
What're your gcse and a level grades like?

Good, but will be irrelevant once I have a degree anyway surely ?

PS Oh, and if you can, buy property, you don't want to be spending 2/3rds of your income funding some TZer's exotic watch collection through rent, do you?

My intention regardless where I end up career wise is to buy another property. Probably won't get a mortgage for a while with being "new" to employment.

Use your ISA allowance and learn about compound interest.

Money in an ISA isn't much good these days though :(

[Itsguy]

Money in an ISA isn't much good these days though :(

If by that you mean cash ISAs, then no it isn't. Stocks and shares ISAs is another story. If I'd used my allowance instead of gradually paying off the mortgage, I wouldn't have a motgage now.

[Mystery Scott]

[QUOTE=-Ally-;4328807]Good, but will be irrelevant once I have a degree anyway surely ?


Only for a rubbish job. Girlfriend is a qualified solicitor at a high flying firm and still had to show gcse certificates. Standard for good jobs. And her first salary was less than 25k.


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[MB2]

Money in an ISA isn't much good these days though :(

The thing people forget about ISAs is that money is tax free forever. These days it may not seem important with low interest rates and the savings allowance (a govt plan to bubble the economy imho) but if / when rates go back up again having the 8% tax free will suddenly be very interesting.

[wileeeeeey]

This is just me but if I could turn back time I wouldn't have gone to uni, might not have gone to 6th form, and would have worked my arse off to get a deposit for a flat or house. Uni hasn't served me in my career at all and I don't keep in touch with anyone from it.

[kevkojak]

.... went to uni. Thats now almost completed but I have absolutely no enthusiasm for the subject (electrical engineering) and grad jobs only pay 25k and expect you to jump through far too many hoops....

I skipped uni for this very reason.
At least half the people I know who went were just "going through the motions" which pisses me off no end (no offence OP).
I mean, why waste time and resources learning if there is no passion for the career path it leads down? And £25 grand doesn't excite you? £25,000 might sound shit but it's good for a graduate job. Did you expect to be pushed directly to the top of the ladder on a 6 figure salary?

Maybe I'm having a bad day but I'm struggling to sympathise. In my 20's I worked for two firms that went belly up so spent a lot of time working through temp agencies - literally didn't know where my next wage was coming from some months. In the end I set up on my own (in jewellery - after a decade running logistics and transport!), but I'd have been more happy working in a steady job with a reasonable wage.

I'd suggest taking a month or so out, maybe go backpacking or something, and "find yourself". Sounds very much like boredom - sucks, but I guarantee you that being bored with a decent job is a ****ing damn site better than the "excitement" of not knowing how your mortgage is getting paid the following month.