Reply With QuoteIf they come, show them your photo id.
We sold our house and are renting for a bit until a new build in the area we want becomes available.
Moved in last Friday and have so far had two separate bailiffs at the door looking for the previous tenants. Numerous letters that are clearly final demands etc. I'm dropping these off at the letting agent as I believe they have a forwarding address.
My wife is a bit of a stresser and is worrying endlessly about what might happen. One of the letters mentioned seizing vehicles on the drive. I've told her not to worry - we've informed them all we are now at this address and the estate agent has a new address to pursue the old tenants.
I know bailiffs can't enter the property without being invited and definitely can't take our belongings.
Am I being too laid back about this or is there cause for concern? One of the letters we saw I've learned is addressed to their 15 month old son!
If they come, show them your photo id.
Good advice so far. It might be worth informing the local Police as an added precaution and the local council. Though I am unsure what would be the relevant department for the council.
Hope they stop knocking at your door soon.
Regards
Ben
Correct. Simple as that.Originally Posted by MCFastybloke
We had this when we bought our current house. The debt these days is not tied to the property, so just show a photo ID as above and they won't come back. Word seems to quickly get around the bailiffs and it soon stopped for us.
I was hoping it would be that easy.
I've told the wife the bailiffs are paid commission on th debts they collect so it's not in their interest to keep coming back and not get paid
Thanks all
It's understandably worrying but it's never in a bailiff's interest to go after the wrong person.
I had it happen a few years ago when temporarily moving back to the UK. A handful of letters to the companies involved referring them to the letting agent did the trick, I didn't hear anything further from them.
I had a similar letter come through the door for some scrote who had given my house as a forwarding address to the council.
Just phone up the company concerned and put them right, never came back. They can't break into your house or seize your property, just don't let them in.
I've warned the neighbours and it seems they were bad news. All sorts of stories about them coming out.
Police wrestling the guy down outside the house at 1am, police coming round because their young daughter was locked in the garden, naked. One of the letters we passed on was addressed to who I assumed was the father, the name turns out to be the 15 month old son.
I'm guessing there is more to come
Where in Leeds are you?
East Leeds, LS14
We had the same issue when we bought our current place.
Show some ID and the bailiffs will go away, one thing to do in addition is send all letters relating to the previous occupants back to the senders with 'not known at this address' scribbled on the front. The letters will soon stop.
John
Good tip on returning the letters.
have been doing it for a year at my new address and they still keep coming.
as mentioned before just show whoever turns up some ID.
mike
If sending the letters back with "not known at this address" was all that was required, no debt would ever be recovered!
Photo id and/or referring everything to the letting agency should do it.
I have the mound of letters in the office today as I work locally to the agent. I will drop them off and ask them to send me an email to prove they have them in their posession and will be dealing with it from their end.
Know it well.
I lived in LS14 for ten years.
small world. I was brought up in LS7 (Chapel Allerton) now here with the plan to move up to Harrogate in the next few years. I will settle for Wetherby personally though. Where did you escape to?
Escaped to Harrogate a few years ago from LS27 (Morley) - can wholeheartedly recommend it!.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Call me cynical and I accept that it may be the expedient solution but I wouldn't be entirely happy showing my ID to a private debt collector's front line worker. Taking it up with the letting agent sounds like a far better idea to me.
Neither will get involved - they will just tell you to follow the same advice on this thread.
^
I thought harassment was a crime.
Friends of ours who recently moved from Singapore had a bizarre experience. They'd never heard of bailiffs and politely invited them in as it was very cold outside!
The bailiff then promptly told them that he was entitled to remove their property unless they could prove that the debtor was not still at their address. Photo ID was not acceptable - they debtor could still be living there according to them. The Police was not interested in helping. The only proof they would accept was their tenancy agreement - which by happy coincidence, they had to hand. The poor couple didn't lose any of their belongings but were left shell shocked!
I've told my wife to keep the windows and doors locked and not to let anyone in. I have a copy of our agreement to hand just in case but every call I've made seems to have been met with understanding and half expect once all debtors have sent their demands in for me to respond to, they will move on to find who they are after
They can force entry and/or take vechicles off the drive but only with the correct paperwork which they clearly wouldn't be able to obtain as the vechicle is not registered in the debtors name.
It is an annoying situation maybe emailing a copy of you ID and tenancy agreement to the collectors to prove the property is now inhabited but someone other then the debtor and pass the letting agencies details over as I point of contact for the correct address.
Watch a few episodes of 'Cant Pay, we'll Take It Away', gives you a good idea what powers a lot of these bailiffs have.
To a degree but the level of whay they can/can't do also depends on the debt they are trying to collecting and associated court order paper work.
I've been out of the game for a while but they can force entry in certain situations, a common misconception is that they cannot force entry.
Having been renting somewhere for the past 6 months, I've been subject to this too.
It's not your debt don't panic. Every single collector I've spoke to have been professional and understanding with no repercussions whatsoever.
So far I've had two agencies to remove goods to the value and one low loader to take away his car all went away no problem as soon as said who I was and tenancy dates. Easy. I've got my agreement and ID handy but never had to show it yet.
I even bought a big red "no longer here..." etc stamp off ebay for the numerous threatening letters.
The previous tenant seems to owe more money than Glasgow Rangers (RIP) :)
Joe
Like I say, I don't envisage any issues arising from this for myself other than the slight inconvenience. I;ve sent the letters on to the estate agent who don't seem bothered at all.
I'd prefer not to send copies of ID to anyone but will show them my tenancy agreement. Bailiffs, thanks to shows such as "Don't Pay...." seems a well regulated industry now and I think they'll soon move on once proof is provided. I'm amazed how many letters have come in just one week though.
I agree as you say even more so now the system is well regulated and can't see you having any reall issue other then the inconvenience, the main issue will be the number of debts and various agency's these have been passed too, by the sounds of it there might be a few.
Don't really see the issue of forwarding your ID or part of but guess that won't really be needed as some form of tenant agreement proving the property is occupied by someone other then the debtor should suffice.
This isn't harassment, bailiffs fulfil a lawful duty. It would only be harassment if the *same* bailiffs kept coming back after your identity was established.
The people are that show are enforcing high court enforcement orders which gives different powers to other forms of debt collectors. It's a complex area. Most debt collectors don't show up with a HCEO.
I live in WF3 now with the missus but I lived with a mate on The Ringwoods about 15 years ago.
I'm up there all the time though as we also work together quite a bit.
I have a couple of mates in Boston Spa and love the area around there, Linton, Collingham etc.
I think High Court Enforcement Officers can but, bailiffs can't.
I had the bailiffs turn up here about 2 weeks after I moved in, they said they had the right of entry because they had already been on the premises. I invited them in, made coffee and had a chat. The guys were in no way intimidating of trying to be smart about it and it was quickly and painlessly sorted out. The bailiff agreed that I was not the person on the writ as he had met them before and I sound very different (north of the border) and I've had no letters or anything since and that's about 10 years ago.
Yes it may be a PITA but, I've used bailiffs in the past to recover a debt so we have to accept that they are only doing a job and it's no big deal really.
Hope you get it sorted out
BTW LS16 here
Don't take it literally. Some of what is depicted there is unlawful. It depends on the debt or other issue but, for civil debts, bailiffs' rights are surprisingly limited. They often lie to make it seem as if they have more powers than they do.
Last edited by markrlondon; 23rd April 2017 at 15:39.
For civil debits that is almost certainly no longer the case. Opinions vary but it may never have been the case, even though it was once widely accepted.
Well the estate agent have emailed me. The ex tenant was "very surprised" about all of this.
Meanwhile an unpaid council tax bill of £1600 has arrived, my wife opened it as the name part of the letter was cut off. She thought it was our new bill. She called the council to inform them, even though our bill is 'on its way'. Apparently this lady has been claiming to live as a single parent. Which has not been the case, must be worth a few more quid which she clearly needs. A letter arrived today from Bradford police too, probably another speeding fine. Very surprising, indeed!
Council didn't seem fussed, they said theyll locate her
Last edited by SteveR; 21st April 2017 at 20:42.
CPWTIA is one of our favorite programs.
We had bailiffs not long after we moved to present location as previous occupants were gamblers and catalogue freaks. If we'd known how much debt they were in we could have knocked the price down by 10K
10 year after moving in we still get the occasional final demand. We used to ring the companies to inform them of the dirty debtors new location but they were never really interested.
That's the rub though, as you say "almost certainly" and "may never been case law" means it's still up for discussion. I suppose that getting a definitive answer is all but impossible.
Who has the money to test it in court?
You'd have thought that if the HCEO on telly were doing something wrong that it would have been brought to the attention of the court by now. I certainly don't know enough about the law to offer any suggestion but, I'm glad that they recovered my money even though it was a civil case.
I was just covering myself by saying "almost certainly" in relation to a post-2014 right of re-entry for civil debts[1]. It used to be commonly understood (rightly or wrongly) that Bailiffs and/or Sheriffs in England and Wales could in general re-enter premises once they had first entered them by any means but that general presumption is definitely no longer correct. In fact the situation is now, post-2014, quite clear but a little complex.
As things now stand for civil debts both Bailiffs (i.e. enforcement agents of the County Court) and High Court Enforcement Officers[2] (what used to be called Sheriffs) can only re-enter premises at will or using force if there is (a) a controlled goods agreement already in place, and (b) if the goods are on the premises, and (c) if the debtor has not complied with the terms of the controlled goods agreement, and (d) if warning of intention to re-enter has been given.
As you can see, the general presumption about right of re-entry that used to exist is now quite wrong.
Note that rights of initial entry differ between business and residential premises and that initial entry into residential premises is far more tightly controlled than was previously the case.
I understand it has been reported to relevant courts as well as to the appropriate regulatory bodies. It seems that some of the footage (a surprising amount in my opinion) was apparently recorded prior to the 2014 regulations change. Additionally, it seems that many of the scenes are essentially fake or staged. In short, what is seen on screen is entertainment and should not be taken to be a literal guide to lawful enforcement procedures, then or now. Don't take any of it seriously.
Footnotes:-
1: I say "post-2014" since the regulations governing 'bailiffs' (now called 'County Court Bailiffs' or sometimes 'County Court Enforcement Agents') and 'sheriffs' (now more correctly called 'High Court Enforcement Officers') in England and Wales were severely tightened up in 2014 and many uncertainties were clarified.
2: It is rare in the extreme that an actual High Court Enforcement Officer (HCEO, formerly Sheriff) will actually go to a debtor's premises. The vast majority of people who turn up to enforce a High Court 'writ of control' or other High Court writ (including most of those shown in the tv shows) are not HCEOs but are simply acting under the authority of a HCEO who is possibly a director of their company. This is apparently lawful but there may be limitations related to it. If the people who turn up actually call themselves 'High Court Enforcement Officers' then they are almost certainly lying. The full list of HCEOs is here https://www.hceoa.org.uk/members/aut...directory/list and it's a surprisingly short list.
Notably, DCBL, a well known recovery company and one of the companies featured in the tv shows currently seems to have no HCEO at all associated with it.
Last edited by markrlondon; 22nd April 2017 at 17:40.
Mark,
I understand what you mean, it's one of these situations that most people hope never to find themselves in so have no need to be fully conversant with the relevant laws. Despite having used them I still have no idea what they can and can't do although, in fairness, I've used divorce lawyers and I've still no idea what they did in exchange for quite a lot of money!
I accept that these people will be acting on the authority of the courts rather than being court officials or the bill for using these firms would be much higher. When I used them it was low cost and a very simple process and I received full payment.
Graham
Just an update. A few letters but nothing heard from the two companies who sent someone to the house. Seems they acted on their word and have moved on.
Interestingly (fcvo "interesting"!), County Court Bailiffs are in fact employees of the court. Conversely, HCEOs are not themselves court officials.
Historically court-employed County Court Bailiffs were often considered to be less effective for civil debt recovery than private firms of High Court Enforcement Officers (formerly Sheriffs) since (a) County Court Bailiffs historically had fewer legal powers than did HCEOs and (b) because County Court Bailiffs were and are salaried employees and are not incentivised in the same way that private HCEOs firms were and are.
Nowadays both County Court Bailiffs and HCEOs have the same powers of enforcement for civil debts so the only advantages for HCEOs over County Court Bailiffs are that they (HCEOs) are, as before, incentivised and that debts being enforced via the High Court can continue to have interest added at a statutory rate. There may be other reasons too that I am not aware of and it should be noted that other types of debt as well as civil debts of certain sizes may specifically require either County Court Bailiffs or HCEOs.
Well that's what counts. :-)
Last edited by markrlondon; 26th April 2017 at 12:57.
That's good.
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