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Thread: 4k TV's and sources

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by professorfail View Post
    A 4K 65" Samsung. But it's pretty much as good as a 1080p one for all the hype


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    You do realise that as with everything there are 4k tv's and then there are 4k tv's. What model of Samsung do you have and what media are you feeding it?

    Myself I have the 65" Panasonic DX902 which has a full led backlight array and have a 4k bluray player which gives very good 4k HDR performance with the right disc, none of which is possible via a 1080p set up.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Wood View Post
    You do realise that as with everything there are 4k tv's and then there are 4k tv's. What model of Samsung do you have and what media are you feeding it?

    Myself I have the 65" Panasonic DX902 which has a full led backlight array and have a 4k bluray player which gives very good 4k HDR performance with the right disc, none of which is possible via a 1080p set up.
    https://shop.samsung.com/uk/samsung-...170407155410:s


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  3. #53
    Can't we just agree to disagree. Bit fed up of this now. Just watched a film in the bedroom on a 1080p telly and it looked stunning. As I said, I'm all for massive tellys and absolutely love HDR, I'm just not gonna get sucked into the UHD thing. Before you know it it'll be 8K and then it'll be 100" TV's and 6" away before you can notice it. I genuinely can't tell the difference between a 4K source and an HD source on my telly and last time I went for an eye test (3 months ago) I didn't need glasses. But each to their own and if you can tell the difference fair play.


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  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by kungfugerbil View Post
    You can understand when people take issue with something represented as "FACT - and you're all idiots if you think otherwise", particularly if their experience is different. I genuinely can see the difference between HD content and 4K via Amazon, Netflix and to a slightly lesser degree YouTube. My wife (who is the least AV-interested person I know) can even spot it.



    But that also proves my point - "Scientific Analysis" (tm) tells us that 16-bit sampling at a rate of 44.1KHz is sufficient. You don't think so - and that's good. You quite likely have a keen ear given it's your trade. Many TV enthusiasts have a keen eye - and quite possibly better than 20/20 vision (which is a measure of 'normal' eyesight)
    Just wanted to point out one thing with this. You record at 48khz 24 bit and then you have to master at 44.1/16. There is a reason for this but it's far too longwinded to explain. So music is pretty much always 16 bit when you eventually hear it. And if you're listening on vinyl it's probably closer to 32khz or god forbid cassette in your MX5 probably closer to 16khz.


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  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by professorfail View Post
    You have this tv?

  6. #56
    Master kungfugerbil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by professorfail View Post
    You record at 48khz 24 bit and then you have to master at 44.1/16. There is a reason for this but it's far too longwinded to explain.
    Indeed. I have a smidgen of digital audio knowledge. For my final dissertation I created a virtual modular analogue synthesiser and it rather spiralled from there so am more au fait with the topic than most right-thinking folk would care to be :)

  7. #57
    I went through this process a while ago. I demoed lots of TVs and found that, in general, 4K was all a bit meh.

    On the other had I found the deep, inky blacks that OLED provides a huge improvement. That coupled with HDR in the latest OLED models was utterly compelling. Watching the LA cityscape, at night, in HDR, when viewing Amazon's Bosch was a real wow moment.

    In short I would not touch a LED or variant like Samsungs QLED+HDR. At the moment, for me, OLED+HDR is a huge notch above everything else. You may pay a little more, but it's worth it
    Last edited by rasputin; 8th April 2017 at 07:16.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
    I went through this process a while ago. I demoed lots of TVs and found that, in general, 4K was all a bit meh.

    On the other had I found the deep, inky blacks that OLED provides a huge improvement. That coupled with HDR in the latest OLED models was utterly compelling. Watching the LA cityscape, at night, in HDR, when viewing Amazon's Bosch was a real wow moment.

    In short I would not touch a LED or variant like Samsungs QLED+HDR. At the moment, for me, OLED+HDR is a huge notch above everything else. You may pay a little more, but it's worth it
    Despite my comments above, I agree that black levels, contrast and colour reproduction are far more important than resolution. Some of the cheaper LEDs have very poor black level performance, and none that I looked at got close to OLED in terms of wow-factor. Even without HDR, I think you tend to get a HDR effect on SDR content.

    I'd take a 1080 OLED over most 4k LEDs - in fact I very nearly bought the previous generation LG (910V?), as these were being sold at just over a grand at one point. The picture on those was way better than any of the contemporary Samsung and Sony 4K LEDs that I compared it with. In the end I bit the billet and went for a 4k OLED.

    The combination of 4k and HDR on OLED can be stunning IMO - Planet Earth 2 is demo material.

  9. #59
    Master senwar's Avatar
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    A bit of a resurrect but now have my replacement and its setup and working.

    Initially, streaming seemed to be poor and I tested Netflix connection and it was showing at 0.9mbps but turned out I was actually suffering at the router as well that day. Left it a bit, reboot and was back at 2.5mbps. Youtube is definitely better now although it does look worse to previous due to the screen size but is viewable.

    The TV is huge and I had to get a mate round to help. Only 15 mins before he came did I find out the screws needed (and supposedly with the wall bracket I already had) were not anywhere to be found so I had to set it up on our sideboard. Not a good idea as its not made for a TV and I 'think' I may have twisted it slightly due to the weight. I've now got the relevant screws but am now nervous wall mounting it. The bracket was already in place when we moved and housed a 55" TV that was heavier than the 55" I installed (combined with sounbar was about 21kg). The Samsung is 26kg. Bracket can take the weight but my nervousness is the wall which is plaster.

    I don't have a stud finder but knocking on the wall it definitely sounds like two of the brackets screws are into a possible stud wall - totally different sound. Would you risk mounting or would you go 100% and get a stud finder? Or am I just being overly nervous?

  10. #60
    Master senwar's Avatar
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    Well, now got it set up after help from a mate.

    Original TV



    New TV



    Thanks for the info and advice in here - I'm chuffed to bits with the look, and it doesn't look as big on the wall as I expected (looked a LOT bigger when just on the stand). Would have liked it a little more central to the space it is in but its fine.

    Now, off to peruse sound options as mentioned earlier in the thread!

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by senwar View Post
    Well, now got it set up after help from a mate.

    Original TV



    New TV



    Thanks for the info and advice in here - I'm chuffed to bits with the look, and it doesn't look as big on the wall as I expected (looked a LOT bigger when just on the stand). Would have liked it a little more central to the space it is in but its fine.

    Now, off to peruse sound options as mentioned earlier in the thread!
    Looks superb, have a look at Yamaha sounds bars if you don't want to go full 5.1 or more set up

  12. #62
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    This seemed an appropriate thread

    I have not upgraded my main TV (55” Sony) with separate Sony amp and 5.1 surround since I moved into my new house 8 years ago. It’s used to play blu rays, stream movies and PS4 etc in 1080P however the picture is awful by today’s standards (even compared to the cheap 1080P TVs due to the age and advances in tech). Therefore ive decided its about time to grab a 4K 75” that will be future proof for years to come (hopefully).

    Anyhow the TV selection seems the easier bit however since i’ve been out of the loop with this tech I am unsure wether my current 5.1 is still the way to go? Are these wireless sound bars gimmicks? Are there hybrids? My current L R C speakers is actually on a wall mounted sound bar underneath the TV but would also need replacing as lots of distortion nowadays at high volume level (blown speaker I presume). My rear speakers are wired into the walls behind my sofa and all wires go into my Sony Amp with players, gadgets into the corner of the room, giving my TV a clean uncluttered setup mounted on the wall.

    I presume if I kept this setup my Sony amplifier would also be obsolete since wouldn’t handle 4K signals from a 4K blu Ray player? Hence if audio tech has moved on maybe there are better solutions or should I stick to the way I have things but upgrade everything?

  13. #63
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    The latest sound tech is Dolby Atmos. You would need ceiling or upwards firing speakers. 4K Blu-ray players will probably have two hdmi outputs with one now used for sound to an amp. You would need 4K passthrough and probably newer high spec hdmi cables. A sound bar still won’t be as good as the dedicated rears you already have in place.

  14. #64
    I’ve just signed up to sky q 4K. Didn’t realise though that only the main box can show 4K content.
    The mini boxes for the other rooms are only hd.
    Andy

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by reecie View Post
    The latest sound tech is Dolby Atmos. You would need ceiling or upwards firing speakers. 4K Blu-ray players will probably have two hdmi outputs with one now used for sound to an amp. You would need 4K passthrough and probably newer high spec hdmi cables. A sound bar still won’t be as good as the dedicated rears you already have in place.
    Many thanks - spent last day reading up on 4K tvs and atmos!!!

    Do you have (or anybody else) have speakers setup for ATMOS? Intrigued by it - can see myself upgrading everything at this rate!

  16. #66
    Master mindforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reecie View Post
    The latest sound tech is Dolby Atmos. You would need ceiling or upwards firing speakers. 4K Blu-ray players will probably have two hdmi outputs with one now used for sound to an amp. You would need 4K passthrough and probably newer high spec hdmi cables. A sound bar still won’t be as good as the dedicated rears you already have in place.
    This is new tech to me but I'm interested too. Why do the speakers need to be ceiling or upwards firing? I don't want to spend a fortune, does anyone produce a wireless surround sound system package preferably including amp?

  17. #67
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    I think it's time for me to join this thread.
    Last time I bought a TV it had a SCART connection (and is still going strong). We're renovating our house and will be putting a TV in another one living room.
    Things I know:
    • We can fit a 65inch TV in the space
    • 55inch TVs look huge to me
    • The price increase between 55 and 65inch seems disproportionate to me
    • It will be going on a wall with hidden cabling and a TV unit below
    • We have 200mb wifi
    • We currently watch 95% content from Virgin Box with 5% films sent via ChromeCast
    • The new TV will be SMART' - I understand what that means theoretically but have never used one
    • We will have an aerial point for the new TV, so Freeview
    • Kids want a games box (PS4) for the new TV
    • We I will want to watch sport on the new TV


    Things I don't know = everything else

    So I'm thinking of a 55/60/65in TV on the wall with a soundbar on the TV unit. I'm genuinely confused about what to look for in a TV. It seems to me that they are all 4k, HDR and uHD with 3 HMDI sockets. If my 3 HDMI sockets are for Virgin, Chromecast and PS4, how will the soundbar connect? Apart from that I don't really know what to ask but any advice welcome.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by mindforge View Post
    This is new tech to me but I'm interested too. Why do the speakers need to be ceiling or upwards firing? I don't want to spend a fortune, does anyone produce a wireless surround sound system package preferably including amp?
    Not all speakers are required to be upward firing or ceiling. E.g 5.1.2 setup is a usual 5.1 surround setup but with the addition of 2 front upward firing / ceiling speakers to give the Atmos sound (sounds from above). More can be added to enhance e.g additional 2 at the back which I believe is a 5.1.4 system

    Go to Dolbys page for graphic explanation of the various setups

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by kultschar View Post
    Many thanks - spent last day reading up on 4K tvs and atmos!!!

    Do you have (or anybody else) have speakers setup for ATMOS? Intrigued by it - can see myself upgrading everything at this rate!
    I don't but my Xbox One S supports Dolby Atmos Headphone so I can use a "simulated" headphone version. There are test tones and videos on Dolby's website here https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/test-tones.html If you have Windows 10 you can try it via headphone for free by enabling Windows Sonic which is Microsofts free version of Atmos headphone to see if you think it is worth it. Even the headphones version works really well.

    The various speaker set ups are here https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sp...tup/index.html You can have front or rears that have the upwards, in addition to the normal forwards, built in. They just bounce the sound off the ceiling. You can also get soundbars that do it.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeColdplayHistory View Post
    I think it's time for me to join this thread.
    Last time I bought a TV it had a SCART connection (and is still going strong). We're renovating our house and will be putting a TV in another one living room.
    Things I know:
    • We can fit a 65inch TV in the space
    • 55inch TVs look huge to me
    • The price increase between 55 and 65inch seems disproportionate to me
    • It will be going on a wall with hidden cabling and a TV unit below
    • We have 200mb wifi
    • We currently watch 95% content from Virgin Box with 5% films sent via ChromeCast
    • The new TV will be SMART' - I understand what that means theoretically but have never used one
    • We will have an aerial point for the new TV, so Freeview
    • Kids want a games box (PS4) for the new TV
    • We I will want to watch sport on the new TV


    Things I don't know = everything else

    So I'm thinking of a 55/60/65in TV on the wall with a soundbar on the TV unit. I'm genuinely confused about what to look for in a TV. It seems to me that they are all 4k, HDR and uHD with 3 HMDI sockets. If my 3 HDMI sockets are for Virgin, Chromecast and PS4, how will the soundbar connect? Apart from that I don't really know what to ask but any advice welcome.
    Some tvs have 4 hdmi for a start. But not all might be full 4K enabled so consider that. Better (i.e. more expensive) sound bars have multiple hdmi sockets so can act as a hub. Again look carefully at the 4K pass through ability. My Sony tv, at any rate, has Chromecast built in so that is a saved hdmi. The other thing to consider is viewing angle and panel type vs where you sit in relation to the screen. A lot of tv's now use VA panels to enable the required deep blacks for HDR. This results in a smaller viewing angle i.e. the picture washes out the less full on you are to it. IPS panels in effect have slightly worse blacks but better viewing angles. OLED will give the best results in both ways. If gaming you also need to consider panel response rate or at least a gaming mode that minimises it. That is how long it takes for your controller input to appear/have an effect on the screen. Too long and your kids will be moaning that are dying all the time in multiplayer games despite thinking they have done something first.

  21. #71
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    Re Soundbars , I looked at some Bose ones in Currys recently, they were wireless, whic h would free up a hdmi slot for you.

  22. #72
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reecie View Post
    Some tvs have 4 hdmi for a start. But not all might be full 4K enabled so consider that. Better (i.e. more expensive) sound bars have multiple hdmi sockets so can act as a hub. Again look carefully at the 4K pass through ability. My Sony tv, at any rate, has Chromecast built in so that is a saved hdmi. The other thing to consider is viewing angle and panel type vs where you sit in relation to the screen. A lot of tv's now use VA panels to enable the required deep blacks for HDR. This results in a smaller viewing angle i.e. the picture washes out the less full on you are to it. IPS panels in effect have slightly worse blacks but better viewing angles. OLED will give the best results in both ways. If gaming you also need to consider panel response rate or at least a gaming mode that minimises it. That is how long it takes for your controller input to appear/have an effect on the screen. Too long and your kids will be moaning that are dying all the time in multiplayer games despite thinking they have done something first.
    Thanks for this. If I've got it right I could plug the soundbar into one of the HMDI sockets and a number of other devices into the soundbar. For now I'm not that fussed about 4K as I don't think I'll have much 4K content. The PS4 isn't 4K is it? I don't think the Chromecast is and the Virgin Media V6 box is but there's not much content. Having said that, I completely understand about futureproofing so will look for as much 4K capability as possible.

    I did know about ChromeCast 'built in' TVs but keep coming back to Samsung or Panasonic for some reason and they don't have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by higham5 View Post
    Re Soundbars , I looked at some Bose ones in Currys recently, they were wireless, which would free up a hdmi slot for you.
    Thanks, I'll look into this. I plan to have TV and Soundbar from the same manufacturer so assume they'll work together.

  23. #73
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reecie View Post
    Some tvs have 4 hdmi for a start. But not all might be full 4K enabled so consider that. Better (i.e. more expensive) sound bars have multiple hdmi sockets so can act as a hub. Again look carefully at the 4K pass through ability. My Sony tv, at any rate, has Chromecast built in so that is a saved hdmi. The other thing to consider is viewing angle and panel type vs where you sit in relation to the screen. A lot of tv's now use VA panels to enable the required deep blacks for HDR. This results in a smaller viewing angle i.e. the picture washes out the less full on you are to it. IPS panels in effect have slightly worse blacks but better viewing angles. OLED will give the best results in both ways. If gaming you also need to consider panel response rate or at least a gaming mode that minimises it. That is how long it takes for your controller input to appear/have an effect on the screen. Too long and your kids will be moaning that are dying all the time in multiplayer games despite thinking they have done something first.
    OK next question...
    Where do I find the technical info e.g. VA/IPS panel or panel response rate? The retail websites don't seem to have that detail.

    Or (maybe simpler)... is there any good reason why I shouldn't buy this TV and soundbar (can be had for £1000 together)?
    https://www.richersounds.com/tv-proj...-tvplus-2.html
    https://www.richersounds.com/tv-home...wms650-xu.html

    Finally, the 65in version is double the price of the 55in - is it really worth the extra?

  24. #74
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    PS4 is not 4K. The PS4 Pro checkboards up to generate a 4K signal in some cases. But it does not have a 4K Blu-ray drive unlike the Xbox One S

    Reviews try:-

    avforums.com
    rtings.com - just be aware some model numbers are slightly different in the US but they are the same tvs
    hdtvtest.co.uk

    The worth of 4K is generally down to the viewing distance vs screen size. Though I still find the picture better anyway. But it is more that you are at a distance where you can perceive the detail. The chart for this is http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-...e-relationship

  25. #75
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    I don't know why I didn't think of AVForum - I'm a member there, although I've not visited for years.
    I'll have a look at hdtvtest too. I'm going out on a limb here but I guess they test HD TVs?

  26. #76
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reecie View Post
    The worth of 4K is generally down to the viewing distance vs screen size. Though I still find the picture better anyway. But it is more that you are at a distance where you can perceive the detail. The chart for this is http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-...e-relationship
    Yeah I completely get the resolution thing. I have a degree (years ago that I don't use) in signal processing and understand that most people are watching TVs with detail their eyes can't resolve, certainly in any 'normal' living room.

    We're currently watching a 37" TV at 2.7 meters - it's 1080p but our eyes wouldn't know if it was 760p (assuming everything else is the same).

    The new TV will be watched from 3.1 m so we wouldn't be able to resolve 4K whether we go for 55" or 65". In many ways the resolution is an irrelevance. Other factors like the field of view (I've heard it called 'immersion') and the basic quality of the image are much more important. We'll end up buying 4K because you almost can't not buy 4K these days at 55" and above.

    We will, of course, end up putting Planet Earth 2 on and standing right up to the screen in wonder from time to time but that's not how we'll watch 99% of the time.

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