HMRC issues

[vcarter]

I just want to share a short story about recent experiences with HMRC and I'm having a hard time to understand what is happening there...

My girlfriend received a letter that she has paid less tax than it was needed in the previous tax year (at a previous job), so they are changing her tax code to lower her allowance. According to them she's got an extra payment after leaving the job and no tax was paid on that, which is not true. We went through the documents and on our side everything is fine, so she called them and they requested all paperwork as proof (P60, payslips). Of course in a letter, because they can't use emails... After few weeks, we got an answer, that our papers are correct, but their records are different, so we have to contact the employer.
Why? Why did they need the papers and waste those weeks if that is not enough? Why can't they contact the employer directly?
First of all, why couldn't they go back to the employer asking that there are discrepancies in the records, so they could sort out fast and easy on the first place?

Anyway, she contacted the employer and she's been told, that there was a mistake back then, but they've sent the revised records straight away and even got a ref number from HMRC for the update.
OK, so now call them back with that ref number... Surprise, surprise, they didn't get that revised form, so she needs to contact the employer again, because they can not sort this themselves and the employer needs to submit that form again.
How is it possible that a ref number exists, but they can't find it? This is a real mess and incompetency in my opinion.

So now we have to wait again few weeks and hope that they come to the 'right' conclusion...

[aldfort]

A few suggestions
Firstly they have acknowledged you are right.
Secondly talk to them on the phone. You will have to wait an age to be put through but once you are ask to escalate to a manager who has the authority to sort it out.
Once at a reasonable level of competence get name of manager, get ddi phone number. Keep talking to this person until it is sorted. ( hint- if they have no ddi number you are not high enough up the food chain.)
Be polite but make it clear you are prepared to talk to both the ombudsman and your MP if you have to.

[Peck]

Unfortunately this is simply the dance many of us have with the HMRC from time to time. I was incorrectly taxed when changing jobs once, and they came chasing me for £5000(!) three years after the event. I did owe them, but not that much.

The combination of a dreadfully dense HR person at my new place and HMRC ineptitude made the whole issue drag on for months and months. As Aldfort said, you really need to get to the right person and badger them (politely) until sorted. I also got lucky... A friendly auditor at my company took pity on me (and HR) and identified what had gone awry, and helped me draft a letter to HMRC which seemed to help things along.

I ended up having to write them a cheque for £2000. Perversely, it was such a relief to get it all sorted I kind of enjoyed it!

[NickD]

If the reference number they received was from the 'government gateway', there's a chance that HMRC have it but it's not been looked at - although they say it's RTI, it's not and can take up to two weeks to appear on your personal/the company's 'dashboard' (online record by any other name).

I wouldn't go screaming around for a week, just ask your friend to check her online account over the next week or so and she might see it's been automatically corrected. If not, go back to the firm concerned and ask for the Govt Gateway confirmation number they received when they made their Additional FPS (for current year) or EYU (for previous year) and then present that to the Revenue. Another thought, if you/she looks at her account online and it's in a previous tax year, make sure she looks at the correct tab.

[mattleicester]

I just want to share a short story about recent experiences with HMRC and I'm having a hard time to understand what is happening there...

My girlfriend received a letter that she has paid less tax than it was needed in the previous tax year (at a previous job), so they are changing her tax code to lower her allowance. According to them she's got an extra payment after leaving the job and no tax was paid on that, which is not true. We went through the documents and on our side everything is fine, so she called them and they requested all paperwork as proof (P60, payslips). Of course in a letter, because they can't use emails... After few weeks, we got an answer, that our papers are correct, but their records are different, so we have to contact the employer.
Why? Why did they need the papers and waste those weeks if that is not enough? Why can't they contact the employer directly?
First of all, why couldn't they go back to the employer asking that there are discrepancies in the records, so they could sort out fast and easy on the first place?

Anyway, she contacted the employer and she's been told, that there was a mistake back then, but they've sent the revised records straight away and even got a ref number from HMRC for the update.
OK, so now call them back with that ref number... Surprise, surprise, they didn't get that revised form, so she needs to contact the employer again, because they can not sort this themselves and the employer needs to submit that form again.
How is it possible that a ref number exists, but they can't find it? This is a real mess and incompetency in my opinion.

So now we have to wait again few weeks and hope that they come to the 'right' conclusion...

Had this a few years ago with the wife....nhs paye employee and we get a bill for £3510. They snatched £510 immediately from her wages that month and reduced her tax code to compensate. When i got in touch they claimed her tax code had been misinterpreted by her employer. I got copies from them and it was a wrong tax code issued from the taxoffice..after proving this all communications stopped from there end and her tax code returned to normal...i ignored the £510 as i preferred to let it lie as you are ultimately responsible for your tax code.

[snowman]

I'd echo the suggestion to talk to them on the phone.

HMRC and other government bodies are faceless, impersonal behemoths via email and other communications, but get someone on the phone and you'll get a surprisingly honest and human response (mostly).

As someone else said, you're doing well in that they've acknowledged you're right! I've just had a similar exchange with the DVLA telling me there was no RFL refund on a car that was taxed and then transferred to someone else the same day - Seems their computer system can't cope with that happening, so they tell you there's no refund due!

Having worked as an IT Contractor at the DTI in a former life, I can easily believe their systems are that useless as their in house developers certainly were...

M

[Barryboy]

Their system is crap but the people are, in the vast majority, very decent. They're all taxpayers themselves and approached in the right manner you will get the help you need. It might not be as quickly as you would like but it never is when you deal with a Government department.

[vcarter]

Thanks for all the advices.

She called them already twice, but didn't escalate to a manager unfortunately. Now she'll wait for that resubmission first (hopefully it'll sort everything). It's just extra and unnecessary work and time for everyone...

I still don't get it, in cases like that, why can't they contact the employer first and save the hassle? It'd be too logical?
What makes me more worried that they're handling the taxes with a system like that.

[mattleicester]

Thanks for all the advices.

She called them already twice, but didn't escalate to a manager unfortunately. Now she'll wait for that resubmission first (hopefully it'll sort everything). It's just extra and unnecessary work and time for everyone...

I still don't get it, in cases like that, why can't they contact the employer first and save the hassle? It'd be too logical?
What makes me more worried that they're handling the taxes with a system like that.

I spoke to them on the phone AND send a registered letter containing what was spoke about and the people i spoke to.

[Saint-Just]

I spoke to them on the phone AND send a registered letter containing what was spoke about and the people i spoke to.

Exactly this. Always.

[mwy1964]

I feel the pain for anyone dealing with HMRC..

They owe me somewhere in the region of £16K, whilst believing I owe them £9K..

Spent the last year with a K2330 tax code

In the last few months they seem to have finally got their act together and accepted a mistake, albeit without apology. To date they have paid £5K back with further amounts showing 'in credit'.

They are still collecting against the K-Code..

One day they may get it right..

[Wolfie]

I've been waging a losing war with HMRC for 1 1/2 years.... I've even had someone from HMRC dictate me the letter I needed to write verbatim to another department only to get the same incorrect response back... so fed up

Did someone mention there was an ombudsman?

It's £1.5k, so, I can't just leave it

[mwy1964]

There is the tribunal route...

Been there, awarded in my favour, five years later back where I started again..

I feel I have a black mark on a file somewhere

[eletos]

HMRC are ALWAYS right unless proven otherwise. In the meantime you suffer loss of income and run the gauntlet of fines and additional tax.

Put other income in the mix and you can prepare to experience a load of grief.

Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[aldfort]

HMRC are ALWAYS right unless proven otherwise. In the meantime you suffer loss of income and run the gauntlet of fines and additional tax.

Put other income in the mix and you can prepare to experience a load of grief.

Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As I said - talk to a person with authority. I've never been more than a few quid out either way. I always paid what they asked for (payment on account etc) and they always put any overpayment back into my account.
The only time I had a problem was when they decided I was dead. That was quite amusing, They sorted it in a matter of days when I suggested I would not need to pay any more tax, wrote a letter to say sorry as well.

[davechester]

They are a shower! A few years ago I set a new company up - approximately every month I get a PAYE underpayment demand from them. Sometimes I get two letters with the same date on them asking for different amounts. We used to contact them to sort it out but nowadays I just ignore the letters. My accountant is sure we are paying the right amount and we have triple checked references etc.

They always threaten debt collectors but with the amounts changing from £3k to 3p in every letter I dont really want to pay something we dont think we owe! There is no discernible pattern to it.

[vcarter]

Just some update:
Resubmission was done, followed by a conversation with a manager, who said nothing can be done at that point, she needs to wait for a letter from HMRC within 2-3 weeks. Apparently their 2 divisions (one working with the employers, one with the employees) can't 'talk' to each other and they don't have the same system and can't access each other's.
So we were waiting and waiting and nothing, so today she talked to them again, but no new record on her file, so now she needs to contact the employer again asking them to contact HMRC and escalate the issue why it wasn't resolved within 30 days...

Seriously, is that a joke??

[aldfort]

One thing that's worked in my favour is I'm registered for SA.

I suspect it makes things a little easier than if you are just on PAYE.

One thing that is true is that the various departments do seem to have trouble communicating with each other. They also work at vastly different speeds.
My latest HMRC oddity was a cheque for a tax refund and a letter reminding me to fill in my SA on-line arriving on the same day.
The "publication" date (nothing to do with the date of posting) on the reminder was dated 4 days after the refund letter. Despite this their "reminder letter" computer could not figure out I must have done my SA return and they must have approved it for me to be getting the refund.

On another occasion when I retired it took the people who collect NIC's 6 months to figure it out. It also took 4 attempts to work out the correct balancing payment which ended up being about £3.00. Sadly I'd already sent off a cheque for a lot more by then. Now you try getting overpaid NICS back, that really is impossible.

[afcneal]

I'm + however many re HMRC. The few people I speak too have been as helpful as their rules allow, but they are woefully inefficient with crap systems and processes......and are ballsachingly slow! The latter can be an advantage when you own them!

I spent 18 months debating a couple of grand and ended up with some inept 3rd party debt recovery people calling daily - I called HMRC out and asked them to commence recovery proceedings in the County Court, they folded, wrote a letter of apology and even sent me a few quid 'compensation'.

I disagree with the phone-them advice - it's a chargeable call and there's no records of note kept. Write everything (OK, it costs a stamp each time) but there there's no doubts about who said what to whom.

[Mj2k]

HMRC don't know what's going on in many cases, I'm guessing too automated.

Recently broke out of corporate to set up my own limited company.

Followed a few months later with a K code notice.

Phoned them up & they claimed my employer, i.e. My company, informed them I'd be earning £300k in salary.

Firstly, I wish, and secondly there has never been any such communication to them of the sort.

Presently awaiting them demonstrate this communication to me....it can't and won't happen.

[aldfort]

I'm + however many re HMRC. The few people I speak too have been as helpful as their rules allow, but they are woefully inefficient with crap systems and processes......and are ballsachingly slow! The latter can be an advantage when you own them!

I spent 18 months debating a couple of grand and ended up with some inept 3rd party debt recovery people calling daily - I called HMRC out and asked them to commence recovery proceedings in the County Court, they folded, wrote a letter of apology and even sent me a few quid 'compensation'.

I disagree with the phone-them advice - it's a chargeable call and there's no records of note kept. Write everything (OK, it costs a stamp each time) but there there's no doubts about who said what to whom.

You are wrong, there is a record of every phone call. It's part of your personal tax file.