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Thread: Not being invoiced for something

  1. #1
    Master
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    Not being invoiced for something

    it's a longish story so I'll try get to it

    My sons both attend the same nursery which we pay for via childcare vouchers through both employers (maximum £243 each) and a standing order to make up the £400 short fall. It has come to light that since September, there's been a shortfall on our payments.

    I was brought to the office 3 weeks ago when dropping my son off and made aware of it. We owed just over £2300. This was a complete shock and came out of the blue.

    This to us is a lot of money but we've managed to put it right by £1900 so far. The balance is £400 as of yesterday when my most recent voucher went in.

    Today I noticed a missed call from nursery so I called back and they have a new manager, she's been tasked with settling everyone's accounts. Apparently I had to settle the account today or my children will be suspended (they attend Wednesday and Friday) I couldn't pay the £400 and therefore have taken tomorrow off work to look after them.

    This is to me is terrible from the nursery as we'd received absolutely no communication of this until very recently. No invoices, no letters chasing payment, literally nothing.

    Surely the nursery are out of line here? Where do I stand on them imposing this need to settle the account so soon after dropping the bombshell on me? I have no desire to not pay them. Indeed our house sale completes on the 7th April and we were going to pay quite a bit in to get ahead on the fees.

    It's all gone weird since they were taken over by a bigger nursery group and the manager left "for personal reasons". I've also booked to see a new nursery tomorrow morning. I've not met the new manager but don't think I can drop my kids off with her as I already dislike her! (Despite her just doing what she's been told)

    Not sure what I'm asking but is there a procedure they should be following to reclaim the debt rather than suspend my boys from being allowed to attend?!

  2. #2
    Master
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    Reading between the lines, it seems the old management might not have been great at invoicing people, hence the new mananger being tasked with bringing all the account (not just a mistake with yours then) up to date.

    No idea what the law is but I think it's pretty bad form tell someone they owe a couple of grand and three weeks later get the hump because they haven't quite paid it all back. Particularly suspending your children.

    If you want to move nursery then do so but if your boys are settled and enjoy it, stand your ground and explain that you've already made great inroads into a debt you knew nothing about. If this firm is a 'bigger' company, is there a head office you can contact?

  3. #3
    Master
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    It's a bit harsh to expect payment right away, but I suppose they are owed the money.

    I experienced a similar experience recently when a nursing home demanded back payments right away for my wife's aunt who is in care (long story, but we help with payments) and they had under charged for a while.

    We called in and spoke to them and spread it out over a few months. I think a face to face is better in such circumstances.

  4. #4
    We had something similar with our Nursery. Not on the same scale but they said we owed an extra £900 pounds. It was actually £400, but it was their fault they had not allocated all the childcare vouchers to our account. But they had also been not taking enough money on the direct debit. I asked for a full statement and checked all the vouchers paid against the what they had allocated to our account. We agreed to pay an extra amount each month for the next four months to get us back square.

    They did say to start with we would have to pay it all in 7 days or they would have consider my sons position at the Nursery, we reached a compromise. I pointed out it was there error and they had to come up with a reasonable and fair solution. As it would cost them more in time and money to recover the £400 than £400. Plus pointed out if they did this and kicked him out, their Facebook, twitter and Mumsnet would have a clear explanation of what has happened and how poorly they have behaved. My wife made me do it as she does most of the drop off and pick ups.

    Legally if you owe the money they can terminate the arrangement check your contract with them, may detail their procedure. E.G. How much warning etc

  5. #5
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Where you notified in September that your contribution was to increase thus creating this current shortfall?
    If not, I'd be telling them to have a coke and a smile and booking my kids in elsewhere.

  6. #6
    Journeyman
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    Why was there a shortfall? As said, it seems the previous manager was not... well, managing very well.

  7. #7
    Master
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    Our DD wasn't enough to make up the difference. We weren't told anything in September when the account started falling behind every month. We were told we should've noticed this on our monthly invoice. Guess what? Never seen one of them. I never expected to though as it's the same days every week which was agreed and signed off etc.

    When speaking to the ex manager it sounded like a shift towards each nursery independently running itself with its own budget to pay staff, buy equipment etc. She didn't seem keen as it meant a lot less time with the children

    The nursery I'm booked in is one we looked at when first looking but couldn't get in the days we needed. So maybe things have happened for a reason. I have become increasingly disappointed with this nursery to be honest so maybe it's for the best.

  8. #8
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveR View Post
    Our DD wasn't enough to make up the difference. We weren't told anything in September when the account started falling behind every month. We were told we should've noticed this on our monthly invoice. Guess what? Never seen one of them.
    After asking them "what kind of way is this to run a business" (and what appears to be an incredibly profitable one at that) and "Is the same ineptitude being applied to looking after your kids on the relevant days" ?
    Then I'd be telling them to pi$$ off and suggesting you'll have no problem speaking to OFSTED or whoever else it is that over sees nursery guidelines and I'd probably consider ringing the local rag (or at least suggesting you'll give that consideration too).

    I can't be dealing with people/organisations who can't do what they proclaim to be able to do.

  9. #9
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    First thought was that the nursery are completely out of order demanding payment so soon, and then suspending the kids and that I would be looking to relocate the kids to another nursery.

    But then looking at the figures, you underpaid by £2300 which at £400 per month would be 5.75 month full payment. Is your additional cost over the vouchers £800 and you have been paying £400 (thus a shortfall of £400), or the total £400 and therefore your shortfall equal to the full monthly additional bill? If the latter, they could reasonably expect that you would notice

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    ...I'd probably consider ringing the local rag (or at least suggesting you'll give that consideration too).

    ...
    Just be careful, local papers aren't what they once were. The story could end up with the spin "Parents try to Fleece Nursery". You roll the dice with newspapers nowadays.

  11. #11
    Master draftsmann's Avatar
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    It looks like staggeringly poor customer relations on the manager's part, on top of the staggeringly inefficient administration that went before.

    The manager's brief may well have been to run a tighter ship than before. For the owner of that business there is a bigger picture in terms of not only maximising profit and optimising cash flow but also maintaining reputation. Sometimes even senior and experienced employees focus so much on "their job" but don't appreciate that bigger picture. My advice would be to have a polite and reasonable discussion with the owner.

  12. #12
    I think it is the firm's job to invoice you for work done, but then once received is your job to pay for it.

    I do agree some sort of leniency is in order - perhaps they are over subscribed ?

  13. #13
    Master village's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtagrant View Post
    First thought was that the nursery are completely out of order demanding payment so soon, and then suspending the kids and that I would be looking to relocate the kids to another nursery.

    But then looking at the figures, you underpaid by £2300 which at £400 per month would be 5.75 month full payment. Is your additional cost over the vouchers £800 and you have been paying £400 (thus a shortfall of £400), or the total £400 and therefore your shortfall equal to the full monthly additional bill? If the latter, they could reasonably expect that you would notice
    I was sort of thinking along these lines a short well. I may be being dense here but on those figures it seems that either your monthly fees basically doubled,that the nursery weren't deducting the childcare vouchers correctly,or you weren't paying. The last option is obviously not the case.
    Are you absolutely sure the nursery have accounted correctly for the childcare vouchers? It might seem really obvious but (and it is some years ago now) we had a similar thing but for a lesser amount. It turned out that the nursery hadn't applied our childcare vouchers correctly and,in fact,they owed us!

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