Reply With QuoteTheir re-launch is clearly still in progress, as these appear in the promo film, but are not on the website:
EDIT> Prices were from what appears to be an Australian site, timeandtidewatches.com so therefore the prices I first thought were extremely high are now actually a bit more palatable. My apologies, I had no idea the site wasn't in USD as there was no ".com.au" following the domain.
http://www.grand-seiko.com
Standard model: 9600usd, LE blue model 9800usd
...and then there's this, at $15,800usd...
Last edited by W44NNE; 24th March 2017 at 09:01.
Their re-launch is clearly still in progress, as these appear in the promo film, but are not on the website:
Any pictures of the Silicone strap? I'm intrigued. Can't say I'd ever drop £1k on a Seiko/ Grand Seiko let along $22kOriginally Posted by W44NNE
At least the GS models get you a modern design engine.
For the rest it is marketing the Grand Seiko branded models up to the level of luxury watch where they rub shoulders with peers.
As to the pricing of luxury watches?? It is set by what the market accepts and the higher the prices, the more budget for marketing, the higher the perception of the brand added value, the more the market accepts.
The next thing for Seiko to do is buy the role of 'Official F1 time keeper' for GS when the Rolex contract runs out. The spring drive tech sure makes for a WAY more accurate chronograph!!
Well as I say, I've never owned a GS to know what the quality etc is like, but these prices seem steep to me that's all.
One had hoped that, in the current economic environment, Swiss pricing might (slowly) head in the direction of GS pricing; it definitely now looks like the reverse is happening. What was it that Gordon Gecko said!?
Seen the thread about the Speedmaster price development?
Although I am not defending Spring Drive in the least, at least a GSSD chrono has a modern tech engine and not a blinged up 7750 or rehatched Primero.
That observed imo all luxury watch prices, incl. GSSD, seem steep to the power of steep. That is because for me this hobby is primarily about the horology, not the brand added value.
Seen from another pov the price level does buy you what you pay for. You do get the perceived product value for money. Just not tangible.
Bottom line is that you decide. You do not have to buy those luxury accessories.
You are right that expensive watches offer excellent value for money if you are mainly interested in the exclusivity of owning a watch no one else has. But increasing prices without actually improving the watches will not go down as well around here, where we will remember what the same watch with a slightly different dial used to cost as an import. Presumably the extra money will go into boutique building and advertising. As you say, it adds to the brand's aura and perceived value. But when Omega did the same thing they also made a big effort on the movements. All in all, I'm quite pleased to have a pre-rebrand 9F for a price I'm comfortable with.
Lunch is for wimps so put the money towards a Grand Seiko instead?
Last edited by Binsull; 23rd March 2017 at 13:22.
Blah blah blah Veblen Veblen Veblen. Right?
Leaving the price aside, that diver with the blue dial looks very very nice!
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Oh come on. And the Rolex hallowing? Like they have changed anything significant in the sports steels since the seventies.
Never mind the Gerald Genta Pateks!
Apart from the Japanese three for the JDM with some spill over to the rest of the world, nothing much has changed nn the luxury watch front since the mid eighties when the Swiss mechanical watch was remarketed as desirable image instead of obsolete horology.
Have you seen a Rolex from the 1970s? Literally every single thing is different and higher in quality now.
Like what you like, but this is utter nonsense.
I'm not defending the price of Swiss watches generally, apart from where it's caused by currency fluctuations rather than actual price increases. Nor am I saying that matching Swiss prices is the wrong strategy for GS if they want to be taken seriously. I'm just saying that the likes of us, people on this forum who have been following the development of the GS brand for years, won't enjoy the price hike if all that's changed is the logo. Hence this thread, which kind of proves the point!
Clearly there are some new models of course and they can price them how they like, I'm more interested in seeing where the 'base rate' entry level 9F price ends up.
Last edited by Itsguy; 23rd March 2017 at 16:18.
The thing about Grand Seiko is that they don't really represent anything material to the overall profitability of Seiko, more they are a showcase of what they can make and that the paradigm that Japanese products = mass made, good value isn’t entirely accurate. Japanese are very proud of their culture and their ability to make extraordinary pieces of art. Not just watches, look at how Japan is also able to make the finest pens in the world (check out Nakaya Fountain Pens as an example).
So the situation until recently was that Grand Seiko represented better-than-Omega/Rolex quality at a lower price point is at odds with that Japanese strive for perfection, and that this perfection should not be viewed in terms of cost. So by bumping the price of the watches up, and no doubt making further refinements, what Seiko is saying is that we can make the absolute best watches in our segment, and you should pay the appropriate price. Whether they sell in volume or not is irrelevant as the bulk of profits come in the lower end Seiko mass market, what it represents is a departure from value and an assertion that ‘these are the best watches you can buy at all associated price points.’ So that diver will be presented as better quality than Rolex/Blancpain/AP etc and the price is the price.
Probably…..
And so another brand prices itself beyond the reach of the average working man.
Why not treat yourself to a Grand Seiko, you may come to consider them fairly priced, as luxury watches go. For me, every time I wear one, it gives me a mild surprise at the sheer quality. But like all these brands, you need to own and use them for a while.
The key thing is that they tend to be slow-burners. When you first wear one you think, 'that is quite nice, in a mildly boring way'. But a couple of weeks later you realise you are hooked. Try one, see what you think.
Think we should all take a moment to remember this quote and recite it everytime you start your veblen dialog on a Rolex/Omega thread.
Maybe it's time to pick up that Snowflake I've long promised myself before its disappears over the affordability horizon.
Date at 4 o'clock??? Granted, I'm not in the market, but that seems amateurish to me, on a $14k OR $400 watch.
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Do it! Looks like they're discontinuing the entire GS lineup after it's sold out, the subsequent models will have the new branding, so the snowflake's gonna look pretty different.
Call me a snob if you want but the price vs the branding means I'll never buy one.
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Well that re-branding and repositioning excercise has gone well then...
I'm being kind but maybe it's not targeted at my demographic? Mid 50s, home owner, kids at private school, semi-retired.
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The gold version here of the classic design is beautiful and I don't usually like gold,
https://api.watchville.co/v2/posts/27441/click
The question is, will the 'old' models sink into obscurity or become sought after? My guess would be quite steep depreciation for a few years, then a steady rise as they become seen as 'classics' . Or is that just wishful thinking?
It is not like buying a Rolex Sub......but more fun.
Last edited by paskinner; 23rd March 2017 at 16:56.
I'm honestly not sure what their demographic is, apart from people who can afford luxury watches, but I take it you see them as a bit younger and edgier? Or perhaps just cheaper?
Anyway I think they've missed a trick with the rebrand, given the prices they should have gone with 'Ten Grand Seiko'.
Last edited by Itsguy; 23rd March 2017 at 16:53.
I don't know about the value, but I do love the angles on that titanium diver case.
Veblinging
By all means.
It applies there as much as here; this is Seiko Veblinging the GS range.
Oh, and I see that Jura have two Credors listed on their website. Not seen that before. Price on application, of course.
Last edited by markrlondon; 23rd March 2017 at 17:25.
Certainly my edgy days are behind me. Drug of choice now is an aspirin!
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Not cheap, but beautiful
Mozza
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I wonder what brands the average working man can afford?
Seiko's modern day fixation with subdivided seconds (see almost every SARB etc) has now reached the Grand SeikosThis is a beaufitul thing.
Not sure about the re-branding, it is good in some circumstances to be able to say "it's just a Seiko". I do like the look of the new diver though not the price.
Nothing noteworthy really.
It already had in the anti magnetic models.
There also are vintage precedents in p.e. the 'Chronometer' models.
I am totally in that camp.
Even my 18K one stays below any social radar because of that
It is noteworthy in the sense that yet more of Seiko's range has this pointless frippery. And yes I know what a 5625-7040 looks like, doesn't make them any better than semiotic fluff.
Who said it makes sense or is good?
You were simply not correct in the statement that it has now reached GS too.
A straw poll in my office thinks that £10,000 for a Rolex or Seiko is simply ridiculous. They seem to think that £200 for a watch is a lot of money. Any poll done on this forum is going to be well at odds with the 'average working man' who simply can't conceive of paying 4 figured for a watch, let alone 5. They mainly wear fashion stuff and Casio's.
Understandable, because people here are surely serious hobbyists. You get th same with any hobby involving luxury goods. For me, a pair of £120 shoes is great, for shoe-hobbyists, multiply that by ten. And spending serious cash on watches, doesn't mean spending serious cash on everything. People make choices. I drive a Mazda, some folk want a Jaquar. Perfectly sensible....well, 'sensible' is perhaps not the best description....
Cough....Daytona cough haha
A perfect example
of a watch where they just added a ceramic bezel and tweaked the dial abit and price has doubled.
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Retail price? Of course not.
No but a good example of where "improvements" don't matter. It's all about exclusivity and brand for many people.
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The last time I checked the ASP of a watch in the UK was about £98.
It's actually a pretty terrible example. In one case the market is setting a price. In the other, the brand is. I'm sure the new dial GS will come in a better box though.
So u think Rolex has absolutely no control whatsoever about the price of the daytona right? anyway this is not a daytona thread and i stated it so i won't say much further haha we can just agree to disagree.
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