Reply With QuoteMostly: laziness.
Why is it that the word 'of' is being used instead of 'have'??
Mostly: laziness.
Because it sounds similar to the correct contraction should've.Originally Posted by Jimmcb
??
Can you please give an example?
I should of pulled out earlier.
I hope your children don't read this.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Mostly: poor education.
Ignorance
People also struggle to use there, their and they're properly too. People used to blame it on 'txt spk' but even as a youngster I found it easier to just type my text messages in English.
Should of annoys me but so does "off of"
Words, spelling, meaning, grammar, language evolves. So be it.
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So. I am not alone. I read and hear it all so often nowadays.
The other is the use of the word 'like'
For example, "I said like to him like, boy this English language like its real like difficult man!"
What a load of tosh!
So using the completely wrong word is evolving?
With you Jimbo.
The other one that makes my p1ss boil is "Can I get....." instead of "I would like...."
Paul
I've never read it but hear it all the time. Why do people use it? Ignorance, laziness, not caring
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As MCPH suggests, it's a misspelling of a contraction. Not really something I can get too anxious about.
What's the view on starting sentences with a coordinating subjunction?
It's taken me a while to understand the question...
But using 'should of' instead of 'should have' is not an evolvement in my opinion.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Bastardisation
I would imagine that those who use "of" instead of "have" won't have (of) done much reading in their formative years. Surely that's where we learn a lot of written grammar. But I would have thought it might have been pointed out during English lessons at school.
When Satan skates to work, I couldn't bring myself to do it before that.
Damn it.
I have developed a very nasty habit of ending statements with a questioning "Alright then?" or "Understand me?".
This has happened at work where I'm briefing a group of Indian employees who are a bit reluctant to admit when they don't understand something. I've taken to stopping and confirming they are still with me throughout each step.
However I do it so much that its now springing up in normal conversation.
I think there's definitely a big difference between evolving, and just being plain wrong.
Grammar, puntucation and spelling all add/enhance to the meaning of a sentence, and hence how ideas are communicated.
I think there's a bit of scale of reasonable, expected standards of grammar and spelling
- full-stop/capitals, possibly with the odd comma. The minimum possible standard for ease of comprehension. If you can't get that right, it doesn't really make sense - it's just words, and very difficult to read. (This is the problem with Generation Text).
- correct tense etc, without obvious errors like there/they're/their and have/of. I fall on the side of wanting these right, even though a sentence will still make sort-of make sense when they are wrong. (You still need to "auto-correct" in your mind though, which again makes reading it fatiguing).
- trickier punctuation and grammar. I'm no expert on e.g. the correct use of the semi-colon, so I sometimes think "people in glass houses..".
- clinging onto (arguably) archaic, arbitrary rules e.g. me/myself/I - I don't really think we should be getting too het-up about that kind of thing, as it really doesn't matter unless you're being pendantic (or is it pernickety?).
I really hate the "can I get", "gotten" and "So......."-things, though. Dare I say they're lazy Americanisms?
Also, if you don't know a sentence is grammatically wrong or contains spelling mistakes, does it appear "right"? Are we on a race to the bottom?
By and large, we're a decently literate bunch
There are a few who don't know the difference between "Your" and "You're", "Bought" and "Brought", "Advice / Advise" - but that's about it.
(None of the afore mentioned incorrect usage being evolution in my view).
Head over to Pistonheads however for a real slice of illiteracy.
I suspect the demographic is quite different but there are frequently posts within the main forums that are entirely incomprehensible.
Just about every internet enabled device these days has a spell/grammar checker and so how some of the members manage to post such rubbish without the device exploding in their hand, is beyond me.
Given it's a motoring forum, the number of members "loosing their license" (sic) is pretty tragic.
My understanding is that "gotten" is correct, it's the Brits who are lazy when saying got. There's a lot of stuff the USA have retained that we have forgot (see what I did there?).
Lynneguist is an expert on Americanisms.
I think that I would be quite accepting of alternative pronunciations and spellings to reflect regional variances for example. There were wide variations before dictionaries and printing. Somebody's should've could be somebody else's should'av, should'a, should'ha, should'e. It's a contraction anyway. Homogeneity of culture, language, accent is sterile. Never quite understood the fussiness around grammar and spelling.
Regards,
W. Casper (northern with two English O levels:language iffy pass grade, literature A)
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There is English. And there are mistakes.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I suppose this is why it's not a clear-cut issue. Language is always evolving, but "gotten" definitely isn't correct according to currently accepted British English, even though it might have been at one time. (Just as "fall" used to be correct here instead of "autumn").
For the moment though, "can I get a grande latte?", in the context of asking to be served a coffee is clearly wrong, as is starting a sentence unrelated to any previous statement, with "So..."!
Language should not evolve by the means of adopting words and phrases which are fundamentally nonsense.
And whilst we are on the subject, "defiantly" and "Definitely" are not synonyms, no matter how often you accept the recommendations of your spellchecker! Definitely not the same!
And when you attempt to purchase something from Sales Corner, please say "Is that still available?" OR "I would like to purchase that please" - and NOT "I'll take that" ............ it's blunt and rude (and if someone said it to me I would reply "sorry it is sold" lol )
Also, please don't begin sentences with "So"
So, I could of gone on, but prolly should give up before someone defiantly gets upset.
Last edited by UKMike; 23rd March 2017 at 21:05.
Not sure I agree, I think that there are acceptable variations of English, alternative words, word orders, spellings, dialects, accents. I think the pedantry is bit middle class, middle age, middle England. Should these be hyphenated?
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It's when people say "Can I get" when they mean "Can I have" that annoys me.
Sometimes I say "Go on then" just to pee them off.
If you're going to troll at least put a bit of effort in.
I'll bite. Because I enjoy reading your posts, I like your avatar and I think you care more than you let on.
To answer your question, not unless they're compound adjectives with a following noun.
By the way, children are now learning grammar once more after a torrid time where those born in the 70s and 80s didn't have a clue thanks to strategic muppetry of the highest order.
Hopefully, it'll just be Generation X who know nothing about how their language works.
Yes I should have said historically correct. I'm with you on "can I get" and "So ...", but find myself using the latter. My latest bugbear is people using "revert" when they mean "respond".
A troll! Me? I am actually quite a pedant, rather conformist and careful at work, but away from that grim world I do admire most forms of non-conformity and rebellion against status the quo and authority. I don't like seeing variation or non-conformity dismissed as stupidity or laziness or uneducated. In my opinion variation of speech is just fine and if people want to vary spelling to more closely reflect their pattern of speech, then fine by me.If you're going to troll at least put a bit of effort in.
I'll bite. Because I enjoy reading your posts, I like your avatar and I think you care more than you let on.
To answer your question, not unless they're compound adjectives with a following noun.
By the way, children are now learning grammar once more after a torrid time where those born in the 70s and 80s didn't have a clue thanks to strategic muppetry of the highest order.
Hopefully, it'll just be Generation X who know nothing about how their language works.
A great advantage of English and why it is so readily accepted (besides imperialism and colonialism) is it's lack of rigidity, tolerance of error. I've travelled the world, worked for multi-nationals, heard all sorts of accents, arrangements of words, spellings of English and have always understood it well. Whereas, back home, the authors of procedures, contracts, corporate communications, many public school educated, perhaps with degrees in English, write indecipherable tosh, although probably well punctuated tosh if I could bear getting past the first paragraph of the latest corporate newsletter.
PS. I haven't got a clue what a compound adjective is. Two adjectives not quite concatenated? I get verb, adverb, noun, adjective, but that's about my limit. Beyond that, I got bored of English except for grim northern 60s literature and concentrated on Chemistry, Biology and competitions to see how many dinner time spam fritters we could eat before being sick.
Last edited by BillyCasper; 23rd March 2017 at 22:30.
I struggle with 'answer' and 'reply'
Among other things
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Couldn't agree more. Great post.
I had an inkling you had experience of comms from your previous comments. Hardly anyone has heard of a subjunction let alone worry where it's placed.
And of course, just joking about trolling. You've probably noticed I don't engage with trolls. I get plenty of that in my day job.
Evolvement! I imagined you looking and sounding like Stephen Fry when I read that.
Teacher?
Nothing that honourable.
I was merely adjectivising this:;-)
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
English pronunciation can be difficult. But you can master it through tough thorough thought, though.
Things that annoy me: incorrect use of semi-colon (usually in place of a colon) and apostrophes. It's not that difficult for pete's sake.
I was brought up to avoid commas at all costs unless listing. A semicolon was the preferred approach. I must admit though that reading most contemporary novels is something I find quite grating. I gave up on the first page of Harry Potter as I couldn't take the scattershot commas.
Two annoyances recently; unstimulated instead of unsimulated. Unstimulated used by mistake is bad enough but unsimulated itself is borderline gibberish. Its definitely an oxymoron. I would never use the term. I prefer "real".
The other one is "pre-vis" : short for "pre-visualisation".
I don't have a problem with the shortened term but I've recently dealt with a worrying trend of smart arse twentysomethings who use it liberally , yet actually think the term is "previous" rather than "pre-vis".
Me too......
Goat: "can I have a medium cappuccino please?"
Barista at local coffee shop: "you wanna get a cappuccino,yeah?"
Oh.
To which the correct answer is "no, I want you to get it for me".
I often correct people who use get:
Me: "Do you understand how restaurants work? They'll get it for you, trust me."
I like that :)
I suppose smilies could come into the conversation, but I'm pretty relaxed about them.
I don't like the 'would of', misuse of 'their' and misspellings of things like advise/advice though. I don't see it as evolution but bad education really. None of which affects that person's value to society, importance or suitability as a friend/beer buddy/colleague, but would probably affect whether I hired them into a role where communications were key.
Last edited by kungfugerbil; 24th March 2017 at 11:12.
Hi Alan ...wish I was ordering the coffee in the Literaturhaus cafe this morning!
Hope you are well
Excellent.
I say something similar (although not as amusingly phrased) - esp. when colleagues use 'get' in the coffee queue. Sometimes I move out of the way to allow them room to squeeze behind the counter.
If we're out for lunch, I've been known to take part in the following exchange:
Me: *looks around restaurant with many empty tables* "Do you have a table for four, please?"
Front of house: *makes big play of slowly scanning the diary* "Do you have a reservation?"
Me: *scans empty room* "I'm not sure about the decor."
Cue kick from Mrs. AO.
Bravo :)
By and large, we're a decently literate bunch
There are a few who don't know the difference between "Your" and "You're", "Bought" and "Brought", "Advice / Advise" - but that's about it.
(None of the afore mentioned incorrect usage being evolution in my view).
Head over to Pistonheads however for a real slice of illiteracy.
I suspect the demographic is quite different but there are frequently posts within the main forums that are entirely incomprehensible.
Just about every internet enabled device these days has a spell/grammar checker and so how some of the members manage to post such rubbish without the device exploding in their hand, is beyond me.
Given it's a motoring forum, the number of members "loosing their license" (sic) is pretty tragic.
Funnily enough, I think licence/license is something that could probably be classified as an archaic convention, whereas lose/loose is unforgivable!
I know what you mean about other forums. Some of the tech forums (fora?), and as you say Pistonheads have a lot of poor grammar and spelling, as do a lot of the tech sites, whereas tz-uk is generally pretty good. Possibly the fact there's quite a lot of old buggers on here, and a very different demographic on those! (PH especially. Seems like there's an awful lot of teenagers on there).
BTW it's probably important to say that non-native English speakers get a free pass (although some of them have excellent g&s).
This thread has been an interesting read. I'd started reading it with a firm opinion, however, I've been persuaded that perhaps I should be a little more relaxed…
The meaning of communication (written or spoken) is conveying meaning to another person…. If you've understood it, then it's worked…. Everything else is a bonus…. A clear communication with poor grammar is better than an indecipherable communication with perfect grammar/ spelling.
Language is and will continue to evolve…. I'll still correct my kids and will still make lazy typos!
I could of just stuck with my original view, but that would have been lazy and unchallenging ;-)
Ben
I have been known to comment negatively on the curtains once. Fortunately we were with English friends who contained their laughter long enough for us to be comfortably seated and left alone with the menu, by which time I could explain to Mrs St Just what the pun was. I say fortunately because she would probably have shot me.
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