Just wondering if anyone in the know might be able to offer me any insight on what I hope is a straightforward situation.
My partner is employed by a London council and after 4 months of employment has still not been paid. This is in breach of the payment terms in her contract.
She has looked to raise a grievance, which the contract states can be done on the first day of employment, and that all procedures and info are available through the council intranet. The problem is that she still has not been given login details for the intranet, so cannot initiate one. Another breach of contract.
Now out of frustration, she foolishly put a bit of a moan about the situation on her facebook page (no lies, so no issue of libel, slander etc), and has just been informed that by posting about her job on facebook, she has breached her contract and they may take legal action against her.
Now I've just read through her written contract, and at no point does it make any mention of social media restriction etc. I assume that this is something that she may have been told verbally when she first started (before she got her written contract).
So the question, is if there is no mention in her written contract, can they really enforce social media restrictions and take legal action over it?
Many thanks for any advice
Most employment contracts will say that an employee mustn't say or do or publish anything that might bring his or her employer or its business into disrepute. I have to say that whatever the problem, whinging about it on Facebook was a staggeringly stupid thing to do.
No argument from me. I'll never understand anyone who allows anyone to view her facebook feed etc. But hey, she's a woman, they like to have a good old whingeOriginally Posted by draftsmann
*ducks for cover*
But her contract makes absolutely no mention of anything like that. She has simply been given verbal instruction during her induction day not to post anything on facebook about dead or injured animals in case it distresses the children (nothing was mentioned regarding possible consequences)
She is an apprentice, and the contract states that she is to be paid a yearly salary, paid monthly.
Take the contract to Citizens Advice and look into whether or not there is a Union at work. Such as PCS etc.
I'd also ensure her FB profile is closed down and limited.
People moan about their employees, colleagues all the time. And although you do have to be a little careful on what you say. If she was expressing a concern about not being paid i can't really see how this could be grounds for her dismissal or witholding of pay.
I would have thought a Council had better things to do than spy on peoples FB profiles. Apparently not, this in itself would be something to look into. Are their actions Proportionate, Lawful, Accountable and necessary. That's if it was the council who were looking and not a colleague/friend on her friends list.
Regards,
Ben
IANAL and so this is not a professional piece of advice.
Disclaimer out of the way, (!!), I've been around contracting for many years, (not employment), and in my experience unless a topic is mentioned in a clause, it falls outside the terms. There may be a "catch all" disrepute type clause, but probably quite messy in this scenario if what has been said is true and not inflammatory. The other possibility is that there may be a clause referring to obeying rules in a Staff Handbook, (if such a thing exists), the Handbook may then make reference to Social Media. Large organisations like Staff Handbooks as they can be referenced from the employment contract and then updated periodically, (keeping abreast of current situations), without the need to vary every employees terms.
(4 months, no money?... I'd have been at home watching Jeremy Kyle by week 7, waiting for them to sort it out!!)
Mentioning it on FB was foolish however you have already recognised that and hopefully so has she, as said above most companies really don't like their name being dragged through the mud even if social media isn't specifically mentioned as a banned platform for expressing opinion, having said that her frustration is more than understandable. If she deals with this in a respectfully assertive manner from now on and the council still appears to be more intent on clamping down on her expressing her displeasure than it is to dealing with their apparently obvious disregard to keeping up with their own obligations then that speaks volumes.
She must have a line manager, I'd email them (so there's evidence of communication) and include HR and maybe a payroll contact as well stating exactly what the situation is and give them a timeline in order for them to get back to her with a solution. Take the advice of the Union, if she's a member, and she needs to push for access to all the IT networks that she's entitled to.
Oh, and get her to remove the FB post if she hasn't already.
I'm no expert however I'd say that, legally, they wouldn't stand much of a chance - this is just an opinion though, and the Staff Handbook mentioned in a previous post may be used, if it exists, in addition to the formal contract. If they were to pursue this after not paying her for 4 months then that'd be seriously poor form!
Last edited by CardShark; 21st March 2017 at 15:18.
Thanks for the posts guys. I'm currently discussing it with my father who is a retired lawyer, albeit he hasn't done employment contracts in many a moon. She is in contact with ACAS, and the first step they've suggested is to start an early reconciliation process.
I will ask her about an employee handbook, but I've certainly not seen one and she has not mentioned it (she has aspergers, so I've tried to be on top of things from day one to make sure she doesn't do anything silly etc (clearly didn't work haha).
I'm with you though r1ch. I'd have just stayed at home until they fixed it claiming that I can't afford to get to work, and if you fire me I'll go to a tribunal. As it is, she is broke, and I'm left trying to support 2 people in london on a £300 monthly budget.
I wonder whether part of the payment issue is that she works at a city farm as an animal care apprentice, but the farm is itself funded by the council, so nobody seems entirely clear as to who is in charge of what. Her line manager just states "nothing to do with me" and passes her a phone number. Pretty sure he has a duty to rectify the situation. I'm making sure that she keeps records of everything she can, just in case it isn't resolved and a tribunal is required.
Last edited by hafle; 21st March 2017 at 15:09.
What does your brother say on this as you have mentioned previously he is a lawyer?
He's too busy to respond to me regarding anything at all these days. Havn't heard a word from him since christmas.
Her line manager should be the first point of call, if they're completely passing the buck then they're no manager. That's almost worth putting in a grievance for on its own though I wouldn't as additional friction wouldn't be advisable. Keeping track of all comms is the thing to do, I really can't see how anything like this should be difficult for them to sort out though, at least I hope as much.
Has she submitted all of her details? NI number, address, bank account details and so on?
I agree, he doesn't sound like he's doing a very good job at all. From what I hear, they have a history of non-payment. The person previously in her role had to quit and move back home because he couldn't afford to live in london without any income. There is a girl she currently works with who is also experiencing this issue.
And yes, although it took them 2 months to request this information (as well as her P46 which I believe is supposed to be obtained before the first day of work)
Sounds like a right shower of poo. If they didn't have all the information that they needed prior to her employment then maybe, just maybe, cut off dates have been missed and that's why she hasn't been paid. No info for the first two months would explain those missing wages and admin/processing time after the info had been submitted plus cut off dates may explain the rest of it.
I'll say it again though, sounds like a right shower of poo. Talk about poorly organised.
Problem now is, no matter what the outcome of missing pay and FB debarcle, the relationship with the employer is now pretty much ruined, so say goodbye to a long career there or a glowing reference. Get out now
Sincere apologies.
I hope this gets resolved. My wife worked at a care home a few years ago the employer failed to pay for a few weeks (weekly paid). The manager was always unavailable. As my wife was unsuccessful in complaining, I telephoned the care home and said I will block the entrance to the care home until I the payment was made. The unfortunate secretary who took the call said access is required and she will call the police, I said please do. Realising I was serious, she requested I should not visit and my wife can collect her pay the following day!
Of course I had no intention of blocking access, or even visiting but it was surprising I had to almost be threatening (without swearing of course).
This was only a few weeks pay, 4 months is ridiculous. Goodluck OP.
Most councils have an HR department I would guess? Suggest contacting them. But who is her direct employer the farm or the council. Answer is in the employment contract. If still unresolved, the union or CAB would be reasonable follow ups.
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The contract states that the agreement is between the council and her. The HR department are utterly clueless. There is also the issue that every time she contacts HR, it's a different person, and they always start at square 1 so she never ends up getting anywhere with them.
From the top:
Contracts of employment don't say many things, but it doesn't follow that consequential action won't be forthcoming! Imagine walking up and down outside your office with a placard saying 'My Boss is a dick' - I doubt your contract says you can't. BUT it could fall under the 'irretrievable breakdown of the employer/employee relationship' and be grounds for dismissal and with only 4 months employment, she'll not have much recourse. So get the FB posts down asap!
Pay is covered both in her contract and the ERA, but as this is a council I suspect it's administrative rather than intentional. Many councils/LAs have contracted out payroll and so the actual blockage may lay elsewhere.
She doesn't need any system access to raise a grievance - a pen and paper is sufficient. Here grievance (probably) isn't with her Boss, but it should be raised formally in writing about the lack of pay. Even if s/he is a complete dimwit s/he should have enough about him/her to galvanise the right people. I hope your OH hasn't been remiss and forgotten to provide bank details, P46 etc etc.....might be worth checking. Get her to check she's done what's required and then get her to find out who runs the payroll - then speak directly to them.
p.s don't waste your breath on CAB or - God forbid - the PCS.
This all sounds very strange...
I would just cut my losses and move on frankly. If all you have said is true they sound like a complete shower not really worth being associated with.
Cheers for the contribution.
I've asked her about the post (which she removed). All she did was make a comment asking why is life is so complicated, people queried her, so she simply stated she just wanted to get paid. No names or organisations or other details were mentioned. She didn't slag anyone off etc.
And yes,all details have been provided, multiple times. They informed her on the phone yesterday that she had to go through the intraweb to lodge a grievance.
Agreed. I know she fears I'll be disappointed with her if she can't hold down a job, but I've told her that i fully support her quitting, but only if she takes the actions needed to get what she is owed. She's currently of the mindset of cutting her losses which includes just saying goodbye to all of those wages. Not on my watch!
Last edited by hafle; 21st March 2017 at 19:29.
OP - you've stated that she gave her details two months after she started employment because that was when they were asked for, is this correct? If so then this is probably why she hasn't yet been paid, if all of her details were passed on before her employment then it's a different situation.
This doesn't excuse their apparent ineptitude, though.
Last edited by CardShark; 21st March 2017 at 20:18.
As per my previous - ask a colleague who actually 'does' the payroll (or Google it) and get her to approach them. When one of my family worked in an LA the payroll provider was only to keen to help....presumably it billed the LA for doing so!!
Jeeze, I am so glad I am retired if this is the shit that youngsters have to put up with nowadays from employers! 4 MONTHS with no money? I bet the bugger responsible for paying her gets his/her salary on time! This is just disgusting, kids need looking after, not treated like shit!
Last edited by KavKav; 21st March 2017 at 20:46.
She gave all details before her first day of work (voluntarily), but then 2 months later they requested them again, and then a week later requested them yet again. Her contract states that a medical test is a prerequisite of getting the job, but she only got given that last week. I'm just putting it down to the council in question being a bunch of utter......
Fair enough, that clarifies the situation. Bunch of utter ... indeed.
A MEGA +1 to that!!!!!!!
My opinion (as an employer not a lawyer) is that the employer has breached their contract by not paying her. If I were her I would apologise about the FB posting and remove it. Say it was frustration from not having been paid for 4 months and it has now been removed. Can we now sort out salary ASAP please as no employee should have to wait that long for their salary.
I would excpect pay date IS in her contract too...
Exactly what she did (with no positive outcome) and pay date is indeed in her contract. 15th of every month.
They also made her do a 1 week unpaid trial. Speaks volumes about them..
Last edited by hafle; 21st March 2017 at 21:37.
Just picking up on one thing the OP says later in the thread, namely that his partner has Aspergers. While I don't condone playing the "on the spectrum" card willy-nilly it might be worth remembering that any and every local authority including this one will proudly state that it is an "equal opportunities employer", and that it probably employs an "equal opportunities officer" who would welcome the chance to justify her existence.
Doesn't sound like she brought the company's name into disrepute - despite what the harbingers of doom say.
Sadly - if rightful action is taken against the employer - there is some stigma which will follow her. Me - I'd get their offices closed down until resolved, but then I doubt she can afford to do this
Good luck with it all
Al
Good approach! In general, internal pressure and a personal champion may well be useful.
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