Reply With QuoteI don't expect ADs to match online dealers prices, altho apart from German Chronext they are much closer since Brexit, but I think you can ask them if they can get fairly close and then make a call.
I appreciate with Rolex, and Patek, you will effectively have to use one, or even join a waiting list for some models. What about for everything else, the kind of stuff that Iconic or Chronext discount?
I'm buying a new watch in a couple of weeks, one that has a 25-30% discount from the online sellers, with all the warranty support of going to an AD. I would like to use an AD, it would be faster, and I'd hope for a positive sales experience from someone passionate and insightful about the product. I don't even expect a price match, just a deal I can live with.
So this is me looking at a Monaco at a boutique and two branches of Goldsmiths an equal distance from home. It's a marmite thing, I needed to be sure.
Boutique:Didn't have the exact model, but at least showed me something similar which piqued my interest, and had some enthusiasm for the product. Took my email so that could invite me for a “presentation of the watch”. Haven't been back in contact.
Goldsmiths 1:
Assistant: I wouldn't spend £4000 on a Tag. Have you heard of a brand called Tudor?
Me (sigh): Yes
Assistant: What about a Black Bay Bronze?
Me: I like the Monaco, and I want a chronograph. Bronze is a fad, although at least Anonimo was interesting when they did it.
Goldsmiths 2:
Assistant: Have you heard of a brand called Tudor? (Sensing a theme here)
Me (sigh): Yes
Assistant: Brings out the Monaco, and a Tudor Heritage Chrono. "It's much better quality than the Tag". Sells the Tudor hard.
Alternatively, I can just order it from Chronext, currently the cheapest, and be done with it. I'd really like to go back to the Tag Heuer boutique, as at least they had some passion, but I doubt we would agree a deal. I'm half-tempted to email something like, “ I want the watch, this is the online price with full manufacturer support, but I'd rather deal with you. If you can't get near this then I understand and won't waste your time."
So Goldsmiths needs better staff, the rrp is unrealistic, everyone knows the “real” price, but I despair of starting some futile dance with an AD, even one with knowledge and passion.
So outside of Rolex and Patek, why use an AD?
Edit: I see from the boutique email they are in fact, Goldsmiths. At least some part of the empire has some passion
Dave
Last edited by helidoc; 24th February 2017 at 00:13.
I don't expect ADs to match online dealers prices, altho apart from German Chronext they are much closer since Brexit, but I think you can ask them if they can get fairly close and then make a call.
In 12 years of watch collecting I've bought around 50 watches and sold around 35. I've never bought a watch from a High Street AD... and I've never bought a new watch for full rrp.
I really can't see why I would - when I bought my brand new Breitling Navitimer World online from an Italian AD I saved almost £2000...
Simon
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As with buying anything sales people have targets, sales managers have targets, companies have targets and companies need cashflow. And it's only a little over 5 weeks to financial year end for most......so i reckon now's a good time to ask the question (even better if the model you're after is being replaced or discontnued), you never know...
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Ignore the status of the shop, ignore the idiots, male or female in suits talking crap - go for the watch you want and play them off against each other. Goldsmiths in Liverpool One are a bunch of idiots, I have phoned them three times to see where I am on the Daytona list - trying to get anyone to give you a direct answer is almost impossible - the stock answer is phone back next Monday when Nigel or whoever returns from holiday.
You are right on the bronze being a fad. Lovely when new, but will be difficult to sell in a few years when they have developed patina (look shit). I had a Steinhart bronze and got shut quickly for the very same reason. A SS watch can always be buffed up to look like new.
Talk to the greys and play them off against each other.
They'll make you a coffee and allow you to try on a watch before you go off and order it online. They have their place.
I use an independent AD that's local to me. I've made a few purchases with them over the years and they've always looked after me. I agree with you about the big chains though.
:)Originally Posted by -Ally-
Wouldn't mind a fair price, and not trying to have something else sold to me!
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I often buy from an AD, but rarely pay full price. I choose small, family owned businesses. Never the chains. Seems to work.
To be fair to goldmiths they are right about the quality of tudor vs tag. Though id expect them to want to be rid of the monacos...
Nowadays you do not get the same experience and pay a premium for not much more
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Just buy from Chronext....I did and the watch was spot on and came with an invitation to send it back after 1 year for a free spa.....
Generally no advantage except:
- If you buy from an AD and build a relationship, your "net" spend will be higher and hence you may get prioritised for harder to get pieces.
- Might get invited to events etc.
In general I buy most watches where its reliable and cheapest, particularly for certain brands like Tudor, Tag, JLC, IWC etc I would never conteplate buying new.
Nail on the head. Not just for watches either, the high street just can't compete with online prices most of the time.
For myself I like looking at the watches in ADs purely to get a sense of the size/scale that can be difficult to get from just reading specs and seeing photos online.
There are some parallels with luxury fashion, which is fast moving online. Increasingly people actually prefer to try on high end clothes at home, as long as they are easy to return and the prices are good (which they are). I'm talking about clothes in the range £500-£5000.
Not hard to imagine watches going the same way, obviously already have to some degree.
Love Goldsmiths best place to spend the Wifes' Tesco vouchers - over the years I have had a "free" Omega 2254.50 and most recently £1,700 towards a Black Black Bay. Bought my Hulk from Crouch which was a lovely experience and have bought a few nice watches including a Monaco from AD's abroad whilst on hols. The only watches I have bought online has been cheap stuff.
Some shops do look after people better than others - I was trying to source a fairly nice piece from Kronometry soon after they opened. Next thing you know I get an invite with a plus one for a private dinner in the shop after hours. I'm sure some ADs must have decent events they ask clients to come along to...so there are definitely upsides
Yep, i have been to a Panerai Yacht race in Menorca all paid for +1, Panerai manufacture in Neuchatel all paid for, Lange Sohne visit to Glashutte all paid for + factory visit, IWC factory visit.
There is definately advantages but really depends on the brand.
Same for me, whenever I can I will use the independent AD local for me.
Theoretically there's purchases where I could have saved money going grey/online, but I'd prefer to think that some of that any profit pays the wages of people I know and think of as friends, and not some unknown bedroom dealer, and I feel the benefits far outweigh any savings.
The obvious advantage is being able to try stuff on in the flesh, since there's alot of watches that look good in photos but don't quite work in real life.
Granted everyone's experience will vary but, knowing the guys for a fairly long time and having a high level of trust makes it more relaxing when trying stuff on and not having the tray carted off with all the watches when they're off to grab something else, like you're going to make off with them.
My OH even was allowed to wonder out into the street with a Rolex grape dial to see how it looked in different lighting. (not many places would let you do that)
Their watchmaker is always willing to lend a helping hand, fixing a loose rotor on a JLC FOC in the time it takes to drink a coffee (after I came in crying :p), diagnosing a faulty Rainbow before sending it on to Zenith, and sorting out sending my AP for repair despite not being an AD. (Now that I think the list is alot longer..... Shonky Rolex's, Unitas projects, Tunas, Bellmatics.)
And there's always the advantage when I need parts, straps, or getting on the queue live from Basel (or long before lol :P)
Most watch stores of full of idiots giving sales speak and treating everyone the same. For Rolex I use an independent local AD, for anything else wherever the best deal is.
Some places just try and tell you really obvious stuff but usually insult intelligence or tell you factually incorrect details.
I went to a Breitling Boutique and I do not mind saying it is in Leeds. There is no knowledge as far as I can see about product or service. Everything had to be checked in a book or doubled checked when I questioned it.
My SuperOcean is losing about 5 minutes a week but apparently this is acceptable and does not need servicing or regulating. This was just one of the things I took issue with. Also did not want to discuss discount...I know it was a boutique but for crying out loud this is Breitling for Christ sake.
Just to add the Longines boutique again in Leeds. They had the Heritage Chrono on bracelet. However, if I wished to try it on the strap or NATO I was told that I have to pay a 50% non refundable deposit.
Just why would you want to buy a Longines from such an AD. Even if hey had the model I wanted I would not buy from them from principle as it is just no way to treat customers.
OP is right Patek etc it is an AD for me, most other models avoid the AD as they are expensive and in a lot of cases useless.
Both sides have their place - I got grey quotes online this week that were higher than my local independent AD after a fair discount, so purchased from the AD. Not precious about either option - research and then choose!
Trying a watch on at an AD and then buying it from a grey dealer online is disingenuous I'm afraid. Poor show chaps. At least give the AD a chance to do a deal, or be up front about your intentions. This behaviour just leads to more High St shops closing down and then you won't have anywhere to try a watch on unless you go to London.
I won't use the online guys anymore for this reason if the watch I want is available in an AD I know (and they do a deal). This approach is how I was able to get Daytonas, Speedy Snoopies, CK2998s and so on. I'm always amazed when people on here comment along the lines of 'look, so and so has had 3 Snoopies now or 2 Daytonas and flipped for profit , people like him make it harder for us to get hold of these at a reasonable price' etc. Tough titties chaps if this is your mindset when you havent made any attempt to support your AD and develop a relationship.
Price should never be the only factor when buying a luxury item. Life's too short to be penny pinching all the time.
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Last edited by ryanb741; 25th February 2017 at 10:55.
If ADs were as bad as you say, why are they still in business? No 'uselesss' company stays in business for long. You just need to choose a good AD; they are in business to make money....and good service is the key to that.
The whole 'ADs are rubbish' act is just too broad.
Well spoken. The parade of people attacking dealers while misusing their services is pure hypocrisy. If you want to be treated decently, behave decently. It is a two way street.
I was actually only joking. For certain things it's just not worth the risk buying online, I've bought 5 new Rolex from 4 separate ADs in the past.
The number of times I hear of people:
Going to the local dealers, for test drives/rides of cars/motorbikes - then buy online.
Going to Motorcycle Gear shops, trying on all the helmets, jackets etc, mumbling about "I'll think about it" and going home to buy on the internet - secure in the knowledge that it is the right fit.
They seem to think that offering the local shop/dealer the "opportunity" to beat the online price - somehow admonishes them............
They will probably be the first to complain that there is no-where local to view/try a purchase .................. well - go figure!
Do watch retailers/ADs fall into the same category?
I think so, but hey.............
Al
To a point I agree. I don't mind paying a (modest) premium for an AD,but at some point the price difference becomes too great. I don't do the volumes to cultivate an AD relationship either, as my original post was referring to my second new luxury watch in 7 years.
Dave
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I haven't bought from a bricks and mortar AD for at least 10 years. I never really enjoyed the experience, whether it was with WOS, Goldsmiths etc or at the lower end with H. Samuel or F. Hinds. At least the latter were not snobby and condescending.
I can can honestly say I don't think I have missed much by not buying from an AD.
I have purchased most of my watches from an AD, and genuinely enjoy the experience and get well looked after. I think I get a pretty good deal and overall built up a nice working relationship which works for both of us.
Would I shop elsewhere, of course, but as long as the service then I will continue to spend with the AD.
(That said when I started this journey I walked into one AD, that pissed me off that I have never set foot in there again)
Well said, and customers like you are appreciated by us retailers. I work in furniture sales selling high end sofas, dining and beds like Vi Spring and Tempur which are cheaper online. I respect customers who give me the opportunity to match online or even beat, and will go the extra mile for them. We get so many customers who use us to test products, check swatches and walk out without even a thank you having wasted my time for hours. and so blatantly are purchasing elsewhere, even when we state directly we will match. As the above post states, there will come a point you won't be a able test products locally as the shops will have gone. Give them a chance to match. You maybe surprised.
Last year I went into Goldsmiths Canary Wharf to try on a Tudor Black Bay and a Longines Legend Diver. I was in a mood to do a deal if the price was right.
The assistant was pleasant and polite, but knew almost nothing about either watch.
The Tudor was scratched already - last one in the shop - so despite offering me £100 discount that was off the table, and the LLD (offered at about £200 discount) just didn't feel special enough.
I'd never say never, but I'm more inclined to buy a good condition use item from an enthusiast here.
Often disappointed with the lack of knowledge in jewellery shops
A fair point about volumes Dave - many enthusiasts would fall into this category.
I think giving the AD the opportunity is what is key here. That said I appreciate those that can't put up with being sold whatever evidently has the highest margins at the time...
I think it depends on the watch. I have bought more new watches in the last year than previously - possibly in part due to the price of second hand increasing and also looking for harder to find watches.
I have bought one from a grey dealer at a decent discount, three hard to find at list from one AD (and they have been selling elsewhere over list even second hand), and two more with a decent discount from other ADs where my local AD couldn't source or come close on price.
I doubt they know much about the glitter side of the shop either.
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I just bought some new running shoes. Local shop did video gait analysis and then let me try on and test run round the block 3 different pairs of shoes. Of course I was happy to buy from them so I think shops need to offer service to compete with on-line but it is difficult.
The fact they are 20 cheaper at Amazon means I might buy a 2nd pair now I have a good fit however I know this is impossible with watches.
The internet traders compete on price as that is all they have to differentiate themselves and so high street retailers need to compete in other ways where possible.
I agree about AD adding some value. When I approached several dealers, I was still in the contemplative phase, but it isn't inspiring to have the brand slagged off, or for attempts to be made to redirect my interest to something else. Several have said use an independent, but in Liverpool and Manchester its seems to me you have to use one of the major chains. If anyone can suggest a good independent within an hours travel, I would be grateful.
Dave
Hope someone can point you in the direction of a good local independent, it makes a big difference
All very well - but simply having a presence which allows people to view/try/occasionally purchase - can eat up any "profit" they might realise from the higher prices.
It must be soul-destroying to see all the time-wasters, who get all the details of the goods - who order online.
Al
I don't have ADs of the brands of watches that I want where I live, so I have no choice. If there were any independent, decent ADs nearby which carried the brands I want (Lange, PP, Nomos), I would certainly try them first, but alas, there aren't.
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