As you may have seen from my SC post, I'm selling my Skoda Superb privately. It's on AutoTrader and a potential buyer is flying up to view this Saturday (I'm collecting him from airport). He says he can make payment by bank transfer on his laptop if we come to an agreement. Is there anything I need to look out for with BT payments? From reading online, I need to make sure it's cleared first (I assume I compare balance and available balance to confirm this). I assume most BT online payments are immediate? If cleared, can these be later retracted (i.e. can a scammer get his payment reversed later) or is the money then safely in my account? I have printed off a pre-drafted Private Sale Agreement from the AA website which I will get us both to complete.
This is my first private car sale, so just doing some prep to avoid any pitfalls.
Much obliged!
P.S. He has confirmed that he has fully Comp insurance and so I think this means he will covered to test drive my car on TPF&T cover.
Ref the transfer- if it a transfer from his account to yours then no it cannot be reversed, only way it can if he could prove that it he didn't do it, fraud etc.... a fast transfer is in essence 'cleared' funds. Just make sure it's a transfer and not a cheque paid in at a branch, stolen cheque paid into your account pretending to be you, quick call to your online banking will confirm how it's been paid in, transfer, over the counter etc....
Originally Posted by jukeboxs
Yes a bank transfer can be reversed within 24hrs of being sent. I belive this applies to working days only, so he could reverse on the Monday. I have had it happen to me twice, however in both cases it was an issue with the banks, not the payer.
Fast payments cannot be reversed, if the bank has made an error yes, but not by the sender- long process, proving it's been sent by mistake. Payee has to agree in this case- Banks will not reverse a payment on the say so of the sender, sent in error etc....
Sorry but you are wrong! The sender would need a good cover story, but many con men do.
"If a Bill payment or standing Order made through the faster payments service has been made into your account by mistake:
Who's made the mistake?
The bank that has made the payment to your account: We may deduct* the payment from your account and return it. Up to 17 days after the payment has been made into your account.
A customer of another bank has paid money into your account by mistake: 1, We may deduct* the payment from your account and return it if we reasonably believe it has been made into your account by mistake; or 2. We may prevent you from using the amount of the disputed payment if we reasonably believe it has been made into your account by mistake whilst we investigate further.
When we'll tall you: As soon as we can unless this would compromise our reasonable security measures or it's unlawful to do so.
* we won't deduct payments from accounts which don't allow withdrawals, e.g. Everday e-Saver; or if the deduction would take the account overdrawn and our overdraft service is not available.
In all other situations and for all other payment types, we'll contact you for your instructions.
If a payment is made into your account as a result of fraud we can deduct it from your account at any time."
They will also treat a deduction attempt as an informal request for an overdraft.
An account holder can recall the funds by claiming that they made a mistake with the account details. All banks are to support the recall of funds for this reason though not all do so yet. This includes payments made using the Faster Payments system and BACS.
However, the customer of the sending bank will need a plausible story to explain how they got the details wrong. You will also typically be given an opportunity to respond and contradict the claim and in the situation you have described that should be easy to do.
https://www1.firstdirect.com/content...terms_1015.pdf
Last edited by kas9t82; 23rd February 2017 at 01:11. Reason: added link
My issue would be that faster payments don't operate weekends, so how do you know it's a real payment not a fraud payment ?
" Payments can be sent Monday to Friday, excluding bank holidays. If the pre-arranged date falls on a weekend or bank holiday, the payment is made on the next working day. Up to £250,000 can be sent per transaction (although individual banks may impose lower limits). You can check the current limit here. "
I refer the last paragraph-
'However, the customer of the sending bank will need a plausible story to explain how they got the details wrong. You will also typically be given an opportunity to respond and contradict the claim and in the situation you have described that should be easy to do'
You have to have a very good explanation why you have mistakenly transferred the funds incorrectly. The bank won't just debit back the funds then seek proof, unless fraud is evident, like the example I gave, stolen cheque paid in etc.... In this case the payee has a copy of the car sales agreement ? You can't just say' errr I've just transferred money into the wrong account, can I have it back' I personally would also have got a copy of some ID Driving licence or something also.
I have dealt with a couple of instances where this has actually happened.
Last edited by Rob153; 23rd February 2017 at 11:10.
Cash is king, if you don't know the guy from Adam I would want cash. Any genuine buyer would be ok with that. After all 6k is not a fortune to carry on a plane, I have travelled the country with more in my pocket.
If cash is king then get a cheap note pen checker, I've used the same one for years it works.
What he said
Cash
Agree cash is always the easiest depending on the amount- Just a suggestion, go with the Buyer to his bank watch the money get withdrawn, pay straight into your account, no note checking needed and no sleepless nights worrying about transfers ( needn't worry anyway) I've used this method a few times when selling my own vehicles.
Not always easily done on a weekend though.....
Thanks for all the replies. Not that straight-forward! Not helped by it being a Saturday afternoon.
Some websites (e.g. Nationwide) state that FPs take place 7 days a week with no limit to working days. But I agree that other sites (including Faster Payments themselves) state that payment made at a weekend will be made the next working day. So this does seem to leave weekend payments open to abuse. Although I would have thought the signed agreement stating the price paid would stand up in court (assuming the guy provides valid details).
I think it seems a bit much to expect the chap to carry £6k cash on him, but then maybe I'm bring naive.
I'll phone 1st Direct and get their thoughts.
Thanks again.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Worth taking a photo of buyer next to the car when you've completed the sale. Any genuine buyer will be happy to oblige.
I've done this a few times and I take a photo of the other person's Driving Licence too.
Also, as soon as the money has landed in my account I immediately forward it onto another one of my accounts in the hope that if a recall was attempted, they'd be no money in the account and so it would get rejected. Fortunately I've never had to test the theory!
I would suggest he pings you a deposit or something via BT now and that gives you a couple of days to check the system. The only other scam I know of is to overpay and ask for a refund.
The guy sounds trustworthy and as said photo of passport (he is flying so must have).
BT is probably safer than cash which he knows will be in your house over the weekend.
Definitely don't use Paypal
a mate of mine was almost conned when trying to sell his MGB - a buyer in mainland europe jumped through the usual hoops, chatty, friendly, asking about trailer transport for the car
agreed on a price then sent a paypal receipt that the money had been sent etc...
All looked legit but the money never appeared in his paypal account - the email was then checked out and was a fishing scam
6k not as massive amount to carry but enough to lose fraudulently! If you not comfortable dealing with the sale at the weekend then don't, generally a FP will go through at the weekend from/to one of the main clearing banks, not the likes of Allied Irish etc.... but still not guaranteed to 100% even from one of the big banks. If he does transfer it and doesn't show in your account creates an awkward situation, you wouldn't want to release the car without funds showing and i imagine he wouldn't want to leave without the car.
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Whynot ask for a bank cheque made out to you? The buyer will have to pay a fee for this, but it's the safest way IMO. Thst'a how I used to take payment when I sold cars on the past.
Paul
Thanks all for the helpful replies. The chap flying up tomorrow made a test £1 BT payment yesterday and this arrived within 1 min, so assuming that faster BT payment will work tomorrow (I will watch him making the payment, and ensure it's reached my account). That, plus the signed invoice, photo of his driving license, and photo of him with the car (which I'll ask him if he is OK with) should be fine. I have had a lot more interest in the past few days, including a chap from Wales willing to pay £6k in cash, so I feel comfortable holding off for the full asking price, and that it's priced fairly.
That's a good point about bankers draft, my wife thought the same. I didn't suggest this as he wouldn't know he wanted the car until viewing, but perhaps I should have still suggested it.
I should get £750 more than WeBuyAnyCar with both me and buyer better off, which I feel pleased about.
Thanks all.
Keep the V5 and all other paperwork i.e. service invoices, service book etc until payment clears, then post him the paperwork.
Thats a good call if the payment doesn't show up on the day.
What I have done, both buying and selling was to do a bank transfer online for £100 as a deposit. A few days later, when car was due for collection was a second transfer for the outstanding amount, with the reference note of "For car reg xxxxx".
Even at weekends, online transfers have cleared in less than 2 hours with Barclays and Halifax, which I am with. Surely most banks are the same.
Be aware that there are FP limits that vary from bank to bank. There is a useful table here:
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/new...ayments-limits
I think with the amount mentioned you will be fine with FD/HSBC.
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