Good afternoon to all,
This SNZF17J1 was a recent purchase one week ago from a well known online Seiko dealer based in Yorkshire. I have had a good experience purchasing an skx007j three years ago from the same company, before the prices of those rocketed up.
The watch arrived less than 24 hours after ordering which was great. Hastily, I took the watch into town to have links removed from the bracelet and proudly began to wear it. I didn't pay much attention to the watch face during the first day as I felt it needed a chance to wind fully, before observing the accuracy of the lovely 7s36 movement.
A day or so later, upon admiring the watch I noticed that something seemed to be out of alignment. The chapter ring markers at 12, 3 and 9 seem to be aligned with the lume on the dial but not at 6. I'm possibly being a little OCD but it's the first thing I focus on now when looking at the watch. I've attached pictures of the watch and a close up of 6 o'clock.
I've always admired Seiko for their quality and brilliant automatic movements, having owned several 6309's , 70002's and skx series 'proper' divers watches in the past, which all had perfect alignment. Having read many forums I've read many people have had alignment issues with similar models, many worse than mine.
I've contacted the retailer and they've asked me to send just the watch back to them, not the box and instructions etc and it's been agreed they will take a look at it. The purpose of this post is to seek anyone's advice who is kind enough to give it, would the retailer be likely to fix such a problem or just return it to me as is and say 'that's the way they are' ?
I fully understand you get what you pay for, it's not Swiss, etc. The 7s36 seems to be keeping time reliably at -5s every day which I believe to be very good.
Thank you for taking your time to read this, any thoughts or similar experiences would be greatly appreciated,
Lee
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I have one of these watches. The chapter ring alignment issue has been reported elsewhere, its common enough complaint, as you point out. Probably not what you want to hear but I can say its a very easy watch to take apart and rebuild if you are that way inclined at all.
Thank you very much for your reply. I think I may send it off tomorrow but if it's received back as-is then it's something I'd need to have a go at. Just not too sure if the retailer will say it's a non issue. All the best and I hope you enjoy wearing your urchin.Originally Posted by TimeThoughts
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I can't see how that misalignment could be corrected by rebuilding though?
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
You could ask for a refund and buy it again - surely to god they would send you another one ??
A guy on here bought a sarb off an amazon uk tax dodger seller and had bracelet clasp issues - he stated they swapped it outright for a new one with no issues
I'm sure this Yorkshire dealer is the reputable one we all know and love and they will sort it out for you
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I think... if the chapter ring was removed and replaced kicked over a few degrees anti-clock it would even things up...
One other comment that is worth making on the Sea Urchin, the bezel is extremely easy to scratch. Mine had a minor ding that ended up looking like a plowed furrow. The paint is a bit soft and the ring is made of a malleable aluminium.
The salvation here is Dagaz. They do a green bezel insert that is easy to fit and it looks excellent. They also do black of course.
You could re-align the chapter ring slightly better but TBH I'd accept something like that on an inexpensive Seiko.
They often don't survive a loupe job nor should they at that price, the chapter is probably made of plastic.
If it bothers you that much send it back.
Cheers,
Neil.
Thanks for your reply/comment. The dealer has provided excellent service to me in the past and present with this issue so far, responding helpfully to emails on a Sunday which many companies wouldn't do. I wouldn't hesitate to continue recommending them to everyone and am going to send the watch off tomorrow with fingers crossed for a properly aligned one back.
Also thank you TimeThoughts for info regarding Dagaz bezel inserts, your helpful knowledge is appreciated and it will be a purchase consideration when mine gets scratched up.
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Thanks for your reply, it's good to have varied opinions and all are helpful.
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Just turn the plastic chapter ring by 1 or 2 degrees anti-clockwise surely. The misalignment is consistent all the way round.
I know that some chapter rings have positioning nodules/bumps moulded into them which may be misaligned so the bump might need to be cut or filed off, but that's doable.
I wouldn't tolerate it if the misalignment is visible to the naked eye, which this is. That's not good enough even on a cheap Seiko. That said, sending it back isn't worth the effort if it can be manually corrected, which it probably can be.
I agree that checking watches in this price range with loupes is pointless but, as I say, naked eye imperfections like this one are not acceptable to me. A plastic ring most certainly can and should align perfectly according to the naked eye.
Seiko should ditch the marked chapter rings.
Instead of all the bum fluffery of opening it and DIY ing it I'd just return it incase you balls it up unless your competent to
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Thanks all, I've posted it back today and will update soon when the retailer responds. I'm new to these forums and it's a great place for knowledge and advice, thanks.
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It doesn't look misaligned all the way round to my eyes, only the 6.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Yup, only do it if one feels competent and capable but it's really easy. Opening the case without scratching it and closing the case properly are actually more difficult (but still far from complex) than realigning the chapter ring.
Learning to do very simple thing like this is a useful skill for watch collectors.
Yes mark I need to get some basic tools myself caseback opener etc
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In that photo, the chapter ring is clearly misaligned at 12, 3 and 9, as well as the 6. It may be more visually obvious at 6 but the misalignment is without doubt there and roughly equal all the way round. Just rotating the chapter ring by a degree or so would definitely remove all naked eye misalignment.
Looking at 12, the chapter ring baton is noticeably off centre to the right of the dial 12 marker. The 6 chapter ring baton is to the left of the vertical centre line of the 6 dial baton. The 3 chapter ring baton appears angled downwards and seemingly clockwise compared to the date window and 15 bezel baton. The 9 chapter ring baton is positioned above the horizontal centre line of the 9 dial baton.
A tiny amount of off centre rotation of the camera (i.e. a tiny amount of both yaw and pitch rotation) accounts for small parallax variances, to my eyes.
Last edited by markrlondon; 21st February 2017 at 01:31. Reason: Added more detailed explanation
Update - Yorkshire Watches have received the watch back today and have been in contact. Initially through email and later via phone. They've said that it will take 7 to 10 days for them to take a look at it and provide a resolution, which seems like quite a long time but due to the owner being on holiday. The company still seems to be open and fully operational selling watches during the owners absence, they have received the watch back and the fault is evidently visible but still it is going to take 7-10 days just to be viewed by eye and then extra time to be sorted out.
In their defence, the lady I spoke to did bring up a valid point. She said that they can't immediately sort it out as the watch has been worn. This is completely true, I was delighted to receive my sea urchin the day I did, had it resized and immediately began to wear it. I didn't expect a seller rated so highly by Seiko fans/collectors to send a misaligned watch so I didn't closely check it, and before altering the time I wore it for a full day to allow it to wind. Only when I set the time the day after receiving it did I notice the misalignment. I had so much faith in Yorkshire Watches that I didn't feel the need to immediately inspect the watch closely the moment it was received, that's my mistake that they are now calling me out on. I believe any other company wouldn't criticise a customer for having faith in them.
The lady from Yorkshire watches asked me to edit my forum post to reflect true fairness which I believe I have now done, out of fairness.
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Last edited by thehondaman; 21st February 2017 at 14:38.
Either:
Send it back for a replacement and hope the replacement is better. A decent retailer would have a quick look as send you the 'least misaligned' one they have.
or
Accept that perfection cannot be bought for mainstream Seiko money. I have seen imperfections, albeit not to that level, in premium Swiss watches too.
Not to be flippant, but to bring this into perspective it will only become a nightmare if you let it. Its a £174 nightmare at worst. Though you could easily put it to bed by sending it back for a full refund. At the end of the day it isn't right and, worn (briefly) or not, a good retailer will respect that and refund you.
Tell them you want another watch or a refund.
Don't let them repair it.
Cheers,
Neil.
The matter has now been resolved by a refund being issued. I think that the misunderstanding arose due to the owner being on holiday, completely understandable and something we are all entitled to. He wanted to personally have a look at the watch so I suppose he was only trying to help.
Ive probably been a little unfair in my earlier post, the problem has now been sorted and I wouldn't hesitate to use the company again. I'm actually already considering my next purchase through them. (I've not been asked or paid to say this).
Thank you all for your advice it is much appreciated.
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Yorkshire Watches are good eggs, and sell Seikos at a fair price in the UK. I bet there isn't enough margin in them to be rejecting every watch Seiko send them with a misaligned chapter ring. They must operate on the basis that most punters aren't as anal as we are.
Such a pity Seiko's QC has gone to sh*t in the last ten years.
I think that this is a statement that could bear some more detailed explanation.
This is a clearly faulty watch sold by a UK company. The fact that it has been worn does not excuse taking time to examine or remedy the fault. You could quite legitimately reject the watch right now.
However:
(a) I understand that it's a small company and if the main watch expert is away then, to my mind, that does excuse the delay. A bit of give and take goes a long way and as British consumers I think we should give small British companies a break where reasonable. But the mere fact that the watch has been worn is not a legitimate reason for delay. Errors in communication, maybe?
(b) Although the watch is clearly faulty, it's not a fault for which I would have bothered to send the watch back, if it was my watch, since it would almost certainly be something I could fix myself. I am not suggesting that the owner in this case should necessarily have done this if he did not feel confident; he has every right to expect the watch to be correct when he receives it. As to whether or not the misaligned chapter ring is really a 'fault', it should be noted that Seiko do accept that misaligned chapter rings are a fault as members have had them corrected them under warranty by Seiko UK.
That's great.
I agree with the first paragraph and it is a shame that Seiko's QC is not as good as it should be. I wouldn't say it's gone to sh*t though -- it's not that bad. Just not what it once was.
Last edited by markrlondon; 22nd February 2017 at 03:35.
As I said, in my eyes. And whilst I have a fair degree of understanding and experience of how photographic images are affected by the camera, I'll leave it to the OP who has clearly studied the dial by eye: "The chapter ring markers at 12, 3 and 9 seem to be aligned with the lume on the dial but not at 6".
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Could I be so bold as to suggest a Seiko SKX007 K Series on a super oyster from that same vendor ? @ £249
A more iconic and robust watch with a decent bracelet...
http://www.yorkshirewatches.co.uk/se...07k3-683-p.asp
Last edited by TimeThoughts; 21st February 2017 at 22:32.
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