Reply With QuoteWhereabouts is this house? I might be able to have a look at it for you if its close to me.Originally Posted by lenlec
Hi all
Buying an old house to live in just had mortgage offer and survey done
Survey bought up that the ceiling of the integral garage is asbestos cement but in good condition
Nat west have still given me a mortgage so it can't be that bad can it ?
Anyone else had this situation ? Do I ask the seller to remove it before we complete the sale ?
Andy
Ps the house was built in the 50's
Whereabouts is this house? I might be able to have a look at it for you if its close to me.
If your intending to strip it out it might cost you a few quid to dump? If its ok just leave it alone.
Nuneaton
It looks in good enuff Nick to be fair. Was thinking of converting the garage to a lounge but may have to just leave it as it is. Maybe use it as a bargaining tool to get a few grand knocked off
As I understand it asbestos isn't hazardous as long as it is not disturbed. Saying that, it is seriously expensive to get rid of unless you fancy doing it yourself.
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If you do it yourself you still have to comply with all the regs re clean / dirty room for staff, disposal, bagging and certificates. I was going to strip an asbestos garage and the cost of doing it myself and using a contractor was so minimal that I just used the contractor.
As others have said, if it's solid, in good condition and not causing issues it would be best to leave it
Is it a valid question to ask for a few grand off the house price ?
I believe (possibly wrongly) that it needs to be done professionally.
I know you're just buying but it may be an issue you'll have to deal with when you decide to sell.
Furthermore it looks like it will stop you from using the garage as a living room.
For me, 2 reasons to get it done before completion, or to get at least half the cost of removing it from the purchase price.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Why will it stop you converting?
I would seal it (diluted PVA?) then board over with something. Obviously you don't want to be drilling or banging in nails though.
My garage still has its original 1964 asbestos roof. We had it looked at and were advised to leave it alone as it was in good condition and watertight.
Again limited experience, but I'm pretty sure that concrete asbestos is the best bad case scenario (so just leave in place) and the really dangerous one is asbestos insulation.
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Not if it's in a good state. My Garage was made of asbestos panels. You have to get it removed professionally. As long as you don't disturb it , it 's not an issue.
The cost is in the disposal. Hazardous waste licence, special skip and all that. Up here in the hills we just dig a big hole and bury it. I have a huge outbuilding covered in it. Very good roof, just don't drill it or mess about with it. That idea about coating it sounds ideal.
Not very near. Shame, I could have tested it for you.
The problem is that the building surveyor probably isn't qualified to make an assessment as to if its cement or asbestos insulating board (AIB). AIB is nasty stuff and can be mistaken for asbestos cement. Before you make any decision what to do with it, get it tested by a local asbestos consultancy (you shouldn't be charged more that £50 for 1 sample). If it's cement you can potentially remove it yourself (with certain controls). If it's AIB don't touch it but get the pros to do it.
Above all else, leave it alone until you know what it is.
I was told to paint it with an oil based paint to seal it and then leave it alone.
Our local council tip has an asbestos disposal point, yours has the same with size/quantity restrictions:-
http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/hazardouswasteasbestos
"Before you deliver the asbestos you must double wrap it in heavy gauge polythene sheets (available from DIY stores) and seal using strong adhesive tape (to prevent the release of dust). Label as asbestos waste. Failure to do this will result in the waste being refused."
FWIW, I removed the corrugated asbestos sheeting from a garage roof last year and dispose of it at the local waste centre.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Did you have to break into manageable pieces and double wrap them? That's what our local waste centre wanted.
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Asbestos cement products are held in a matrix and if in good condition pose no hazard at all. In the grand scheme of asbestos this is at the lower end of the risk scale. Leave in place and encapsulate, fixings can be drilled and plugged as long as you shadow vac whist doing it. It's only hazardous if you damage it and release the fibres. Anything built before 1999 has more than half a chance of containing an ACM of some description, just think about all that artex out there.
Leave it as mentioned just encapsulate it. Just note where it is for the future should you have any work done.
I've just paid £24 for 4 samples and alls fine apart from the blooming vinyl flooring in the kitchen!
Disposed of an old Garage roof some years ago and had to take to landfill where there was a cell just for asbestos. Cost me £35.00 as my local tip didn't accept it.
Check out HSE's website too.
B
The house i sold in 2009 had an asbestos ceiling in the garage my buyers mortgage company insisted on removal which had to done by a pro company my buyer and i split the cost of around £1400 from memory( it was the full monty suits,dirty room etc) the guy from the contractors said it was totally unnesscery if the asbestos was not disturbed and approx 1.5hrs of fire protection had been removed.
Just leave it
I've asked the estate agent if I can go and have a look and take some photos to show builder or specialist
Yes. The council even specified the thickness of the polythene and the security of the taping. The size of the pieces weren't specified, but the stuff broke up easily enough as it was very brittle - as I discovered when falling though it.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I'm in the hazardous waste business. If the roof is sound and not broken or flaking it's safer to leave it as is.
Disposal cost with landfill tax is about £200 per tonne (Hampshire area) if you take it to a landfill site that can accept asbestos.
You will need a hazardous waste consignment note to take it to the landfill site (asbestos is the only hazardous waste from a domestic property the needs this)
add amother £30 - £50 for this. It will need to be double bagged as well (you don't need 'special bags' either, just packaged in such a way that any fibres will not escape during transport)
PM me if you need any further info
Steve
If you do decide to take it down yourself and dispose of it make sure you wear a FFP3 rated dust mask!
What are the chances of the stuff degrading in the next 10-15 years?
Or the regulations changing?
I know I wouldn't buy a property even with 'safe' asbestos. If only because I would think (rightly or wrongly) it might make selling it more difficult.
It's been ok for 60 years so very slight.
Guys, with all due respect, I think some of you are confusing ceilings with roofs.
The OP said it was a ceiling in an integral garage.
It's rare to see cement used as a ceiling hence my concern that it might be AIB. AIB is definitely not a diy job.
OP, get a proper prognosis first, then take it from there. If it's cement, you can diy, if it's AIB, don't mess with it.
Thanks Steve. When I take some pics would you mind taking a look at them and giving me your expert opinion please
Andy
where our offices are was an old converted food stuffs warehouse, the roof is the concrete type asbestos. - not so good nick as is the norm, repairs over the years mean flash tape and tar has been used on the outside to stop leaks
but this makes the panels tight and inflexible and they need space to contract and expand - so they crack more, leak more, get gummed up and the process never ends.
So on the advice of H&S they had the inside of the roof stabilised with some special glue to minimise any airborn stuff breaking off - and the outside covered in new roofing membrane, no more leaks and been like that for years.
Cheaper than disposing and replacing apparently
Unless a sample has been taken and analysed how do you know it contains asbestos?
If you have had it analysed and asbestos material has been confirmed I would be asking for a price reduction as the garage is close proximity to your house.
Trust me if it is asbestos material you won't be able to just rip it down and dump it.
JUst my 2 cents.
Just going on what the surveyor for nat west put in the report. Hasn't stopped them giving me a mortgage offer
Though
I had some to dispose of. I just phoned the local CC disposal place and they said no problems. When I turned up at the tip site it was just another open skip that you chucked it into. Here I was imagining a special air sealed container with attendants dressed up in hazmat suites! I got the impression that cement board is actually low on the health side issues/worries.
If I was worried then I'd go with the idea of over boarding it.
Asbestos cement is usually low content of Asbestos and is typically the least harmful of the three types of Asbestos; but as someone else has rightly said "How do you know it's Asbestos unless it has been laboratory tested", this is the only way to know for sure as a great deal of products can look like what we commonly term 'Asbestos Cement', going by the age it likely does contain asbestos, plus must be assumed to contain Asbestos unless proven otherwise by lab test.
The good news is that Asbestos Cement removal is non-licenced, thus anyone can do it but must follow Health and Safety Executive guidance, see here: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/guidance/a14.pdf
It will need to be legally disposed of to a licenced tip or via a licensed skip contractor; this should not be too expensive and its always worth getting a copy of the consignment note as evidence of legal disposal.
Having said all the above; again as others have mentioned, you have options; 1) Use it as a bargaining tool and get money off the purchase price. 2) Live with it - It is actually a fantastically stable building material it's just a shame that it has now been found to have serious health implications if fibres are breathed in or ingested (something which will not happen unless it is drilled, abraded or smashed to smithereens!).
If you decide to keep it; which is what I did to my own garage roof, another good 'management procedure' it to further encapsulate the material. I cleaned the surface (again HSE guidance given and followed) then painted the external surface with Thompsons 10 year roof seal and sprayed the internal surface with normal white masonry paint. This not only helps further water proof the roof, but aesthetically improves things and with the white surface beneath you can more easily monitor for damage, such as cracking, impacts or if the material delaminates as these will be more obvious, plus it'll make the garage brighter.
Hope this is useful. Either way I would not let it put me off purchasing the property and I am a Building Surveyor for a living BTW.
I agree - you have to take each case on its merits, but if it is a detached garage which is unlikely to suffer impact damage (so for instance not under a tree which may have falling branches) then you have a roof which will last multiple times longer than most other flat roof systems out there. It is perfectly correct to be wary of asbestos based products, but as others have said, understanding the actual nature of the product and consequently what the real world risk is should always be the starting point in case it is a "non-issue" situation
Horrific how asbestos has been used in the past.
Last edited by Kingstepper; 31st January 2017 at 11:52.
Indeed. Not that different from Radium mind you, i.e. you can only eliminate a hazard once you're aware it is one.
However, like tobacco, the asbestos industry has been in denial a very long time, particularly in Canada where they mined the stuff until quite recently.
It's a shame it is so lethal too as it's wonderful stuff when it comes to fireproof and sound isolation.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Sorry to keep banging on and all that but are we talking about a ceiling or a roof?
I'm an asbestos consultant, 22 years in the job. Just have a few concerns in case it is a ceiling, not a roof. It could be something other than cement.
This is a very timely thread for me.
Due to water damage we have just had a square metre of 1960's Artex ceiling fall down in our living room. Not realising there may be any hazard we swept it up ourselves before contacting the landlord. We are now waiting for someone to take a sample for testing.
We have been told by the landlords contractor that it is fine to use the room. They came around and removed the loose stuff and covered the hole with plastic.
Incredibly low risk of fibre release from artex. Don't worry about it. Also, the dampness would've helped dust suppression.
Hi. It's a garage ceiling. It's an integral gagrage
Not a roof at all. I'm going to take some pics tomorrow
Lunchtime to be sure of what it is I think it may be the
A I b
Ok, try to take a photo showing how the ceiling is fixed to the joists. It may be a clue. Also, if there's a bare patch, try to get a closeup. Don't disturb it though.
You will probably still need a sample to be certain, but at least that's inexpensive.
Thank you.
I'm with MoK on this one, if it was fibre cement sheeting it's fine to remove it yourself or alternatively it should cost you in the region of £600 for a specialist / suitably qualified contractor to remove... I'd go for the latter...
However this does sound more like AIB, which its removal is notifiable to the H&S with the works being undertaken by specialist contractors in a set time frame... I've recently had some removed from a property in Hexham I manage at a cost of £2.5k
My background is I'm a building surveyor with portfolio... I don't do homebuyers...
Richard
Update
Just been to the house and looked at the garage ceiling
It's dark greys sheets of what looks like concrete with wooden Battons over the top and a
Couple of 6ft strip lights attaches. There's a couple of holes where the concrete has snapped off type of thing on the edges otherwise very tidy.
Got some pics but can't post seem to be able to post um
Cheers Andy
If you want to email them to me --- here comes the portentous email address --- email@richardjameson.co.uk I'll up load them.
If you've a small sample, and can bag it up your more than welcome to post it to the labs our specialists have... think testing is about £25 but they'll do it same / next day...
Richard
Thank you. I've sent you some photos
You have email
Your photos Andy....
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